204 réponses à ce sujet

[DaringMoosejaw]

ME1's inventory and currency systems were abysmal, I don't know how anyone could want it back. The only argument for unfun, annoying crap being removed from the game being bad is that it removes 'complexity' to 'dumb it down'. The purists sometimes just seems like old men rattling their canes at progress.

[Gleym]

That's the ticket, Moosejaw. Keep pretending that ME1 fans are asking for the flaws back, just like all the other narrowminded zealots.

[DaringMoosejaw]

Gleym wrote...

That's the ticket, Moosejaw. Keep pretending that ME1 fans are asking for the flaws back, just like all the other narrowminded zealots.

I'm no zealot. I liked ME1, I liked ME2 better. There was some new stuff I didn't like, very little old stuff removed I wished I could have back, but overall I liked a lot of the improvements. I find ME2 plainly more fun and less of a slog than ME1 was.

[Gleym]

And yet you're convinced that because some of us want old features back in a new and improved form-- No, not even that, we think that those features should never have been removed in the first place but FIXED, that it makes us ignorant purists with rose-tinted glasses.



Yeah, that makes you a zealot as far as I'm concerned.

[Jorina Leto]

DaringMoosejaw wrote...

ME1's inventory and currency systems were abysmal, I don't know how anyone could want it back. The only argument for unfun, annoying crap being removed from the game being bad is that it removes 'complexity' to 'dumb it down'. The purists sometimes just seems like old men rattling their canes at progress.

Yeah sure I want back the inventory with all it flaws and not like the much better inventory that we got in Dragon Age.
Please note the irony.

[Gibb_Shepard]

Gleym wrote...

And yet you're convinced that because some of us want old features back in a new and improved form-- No, not even that, we think that those features should never have been removed in the first place but FIXED, that it makes us ignorant purists with rose-tinted glasses.

Yeah, that makes you a zealot as far as I'm concerned.

This x 2

When people say they want some of the ME1 mechanics back, they don't mean they want the flaws back. Who in their right mind would think that fans who want inventory or exploration back mean they want the exact flawed version that there was in ME1? Actually i take that back, it seems a lot of people think that.

For future reference, whenever "ME1 purists" say they want the inventory back, or exploration back, or the elevators back; they want an IMPROVED version of them, not the exact same bloody thing from the first game, as many seem to constantly assume.

[joltmajor]

Analogy:

ME1:ME2 :: Good Independent Film : Hollywood Blockbuster


One of these is genuinely 'good' and the other is fodder for the masses.

Modifié par joltmajor, 19 janvier 2011 - 08:31 .

[Gleym]

Jolt's got it right. To further that analogy, ME1 is what would happen if Guillermo del Toro made a sci-fi movie. ME2 is what you get when Michael Bay does it.

[Piecake]

Gleym wrote...

Jolt's got it right. To further that analogy, ME1 is what would happen if Guillermo del Toro made a sci-fi movie. ME2 is what you get when Michael Bay does it.

Michael Bay has far better developed and more interesting characters in his movies than Guillermo Del Toro?  That's news to me

[SithLordExarKun]

Gibb_Shepard wrote...

SithLordExarKun wrote...

Gibb_Shepard wrote...



Not going to take sides here, but the ME1 purists seem to always have well thought out arguments. Just sayin'

In your opinion, yes, in the eyes of reality no. So saying ME1 is the holy grail of gaming is a well thought argument?

lol

No one has ever said that, even the most die hard ME1 fans. You're over-exaggerating. No one thinks ME1 is the holy-grail.

Uh the ME1 fanatics do. Just read properly. I'v even seen them proclaim that ME1 had suck an amazing incredible story line... which it didn't.

[Gleym]

Piecake wrote...

Gleym wrote...

Jolt's got it right. To further that analogy, ME1 is what would happen if Guillermo del Toro made a sci-fi movie. ME2 is what you get when Michael Bay does it.

Michael Bay has far better developed and more interesting characters in his movies than Guillermo Del Toro?  That's news to me

The only well-developed and interesting characters in all of ME2 are Mordin and Legion, and Legion hardly even gets that much development for that matter. Tali and Garrus don't count on account of them being from the previous game, meaning half of their character development took place during that game. The rest are boring, uninteresting stereotypes that I couldn't care less about.

Otherwise, ME2 suits Bay's style perfectly. Lots and lots of flashy explosions, random action sequences, ****** and ass, utterly pointless love plots woven in, and more than anything else? A crapton of meaningless side-stories that have nothing to do with the main plot taking up 80% of the screentime. Heck, it's like Transformers 2 all over again, especially with the boring, anticlimactic final boss. It even has a pointless death and rebirth of a main character. Hurray!

Modifié par Gleym, 19 janvier 2011 - 09:36 .

[Piecake]

Gleym wrote...

Piecake wrote...

Gleym wrote...

Jolt's got it right. To further that analogy, ME1 is what would happen if Guillermo del Toro made a sci-fi movie. ME2 is what you get when Michael Bay does it.

Michael Bay has far better developed and more interesting characters in his movies than Guillermo Del Toro?  That's news to me

The only well-developed and interesting characters in all of ME2 are Mordin and Legion, and Legion hardly even gets that much development for that matter. Tali and Garrus don't count on account of them being from the previous game, meaning half of their character development took place during that game. The rest are boring, uninteresting stereotypes that I couldn't care less about.

Otherwise, ME2 suits Bay's style perfectly. Lots and lots of flashy explosions, random action sequences, ****** and ass, utterly pointless love plots woven in, and more than anything else? A crapton of meaningless side-stories that have nothing to do with the main plot taking up 80% of the screentime. Heck, it's like Transformers 2 all over again, especially with the boring, anticlimactic final boss. It even has a pointless death and rebirth of a main character. Hurray!

Tali and Garrus dont count?  That seems pretty ridiculous since they both are better developed in ME2 than they are in ME1.  As for meaningless side-stories, well, that might be the problem right there since I found them anything but.  That was by far my favorite aspect of the story and I would say the game's actual 'plot' since those stories are all about your companions, their development, and your interaction with them.  The story is character focused, instead of plot focused like ME1.

I thought ME1's plot was better, and you are right, character intergration into the plot is better in ME1, but the characters were some of the shallowest and least developed characters that Bioware has made.  They were basically there to tell you about the characters culture/race and had a personality slapped on top.  There was very little development, and while their culture/race interested me, them as actual charactes sure didnt.   

But hey, I will take interesting characters, character interaction/development over plot and character intergration every day of the week since I find characters infinitely more interesting.

[Lunatic LK47]

Piecake wrote...

Tali and Garrus dont count?  That seems pretty ridiculous since they both are better developed in ME2 than they are in ME1.  As for meaningless side-stories, well, that might be the problem right there since I found them anything but.  That was by far my favorite aspect of the story and I would say the game's actual 'plot' since those stories are all about your companions, their development, and your interaction with them.  The story is character focused, instead of plot focused like ME1.

I thought ME1's plot was better, and you are right, character intergration into the plot is better in ME1, but the characters were some of the shallowest and least developed characters that Bioware has made.  They were basically there to tell you about the characters culture/race and had a personality slapped on top.  There was very little development, and while their culture/race interested me, them as actual charactes sure didnt.   

But hey, I will take interesting characters, character interaction/development over plot and character intergration every day of the week since I find characters infinitely more interesting.

Another person I'm buying beers for, especially regarding Tali and Garrus.

[Drowsy0106]

Thanks for posting these vids, enjoyed them a lot.

[didymos1120]

Gleym wrote...

Tali and Garrus don't count on account of them being from the previous game, meaning half of their character development took place during that game.

Garrus, yes.  A little.  But Tali?  Please. She was a series of extended Codex entries glued together with a splash of personal backstory.

[Gleym]

I like how everyone is directly quoting me and yet the fact that I said that they were both developed in both games is being almost intentionally misread as 'hurr u sed Tali werent devlpd at alz!!11eleven"

[Piecake]

Gleym wrote...

I like how everyone is directly quoting me and yet the fact that I said that they were both developed in both games is being almost intentionally misread as 'hurr u sed Tali werent devlpd at alz!!11eleven"

I think you need to go back and re-read, since thats not what has been said.  I am saying that Garrus and Tali received a lot more character development in ME2 than in ME1.  I am disagreeing with you in your assertion that half their character development occured in ME1 since I felt that the characters in ME1 mostly gave you information on culture/race/other background information.  While interesting, that isnt character development 

[didymos1120]

Gleym wrote...

I like how everyone is directly quoting me and yet the fact that I said that they were both developed in both games is being almost intentionally misread as 'hurr u sed Tali werent devlpd at alz!!11eleven"

Uh, no, everyone is basically pointing out that this notion that Tali and Garrus don't count due to being developed in ME1 is nonsense because most of their character development was done in ME2.  And it was roughly equivalent in quantity to the amount most of the other ME2 characters had.

[skcih-deraj]

So a little recon here and there is a bother eh?  Try getting most if not all your favriot comic book titles reconed and after a few years of not reading trying to catch up.

Marvel and DC are the biggest (in my opinion) perps of this and do I still read their stuff? (Yes!) So if Bioware does a little recon here and there (as long as it makes sense!) I'm ok with that as long as it's not huge and story changing/breaking.  (Not saying that some of the changes were annoying but not enough for me to start posting on the forums screaming about the same issues people after the first week started to complain about.)


On an unrelated note I'm glad Bioware are having the ME comics published under Dark Horse becuase if Image was doing it I'd refuse to read any of them.  (Sorry nerd rant over.)

Modifié par skcih-deraj, 19 janvier 2011 - 10:31 .

[Gleym]

skcih-deraj wrote...

So a little recon here and there is a bother eh?  Try getting most if not all your favriot comic book titles reconed and after a few years of not reading trying to catch up.

Marvel and DC are the biggest (in my opinion) perps of this and do I still read their stuff? (Yes!) So if Bioware does a little recon here and there (as long as it makes sense!) I'm ok with that as long as it's not huge and story changing/breaking.  (Not saying that some of the changes were annoying but not enough for me to start posting on the forums screaming about the same issues people after the first week started to complain about.)


On an unrelated note I'm glad Bioware are having the ME comics published under Dark Horse becuase if Image was doing it I'd refuse to read any of them.  (Sorry nerd rant over.)

Heh, that is ironically the rationale that I used though:

Gleym wrote...

padaE wrote...
No, because they whine about changes that made the game much better using arguments that are most of the time horrible. 

Just like Twilight made vampires better. Or 4th Edition made DnD better. Or how Spider-Man: One More Day improved the franchise.

Modifié par Gleym, 19 janvier 2011 - 10:36 .

[desonnac00]

Speaking of retcons and DC 

Modifié par desonnac00, 19 janvier 2011 - 10:44 .

[Bogsnot1]

People like him are best avoided to tell the truth. He's the type of guy who will turn up to a Star Trek convention, dressed as a Klingon, and only speaking Klingon, and then harp on about a single scene where the spanner in Scotty's hand changed from 5/16" to a 1/2" without him opening a toolkit.

And, as someone else pointed out, they cannot accept any other reasoning than their own, and when their argument is shot down with superior logic, they chuck a tantrum a poorly behaved 5yo would be ashamed of.

[Gleym]

Bogsnot1 wrote...

People like him are best avoided to tell the truth. He's the type of guy who will turn up to a Star Trek convention, dressed as a Klingon, and only speaking Klingon, and then harp on about a single scene where the spanner in Scotty's hand changed from 5/16" to a 1/2" without him opening a toolkit.
And, as someone else pointed out, they cannot accept any other reasoning than their own, and when their argument is shot down with superior logic, they chuck a tantrum a poorly behaved 5yo would be ashamed of.

I like how you say that as if ME2 zealots are any different in their rabid defense of the changes made.

Modifié par Gleym, 19 janvier 2011 - 10:52 .

[didymos1120]

Gleym wrote...

I like how you say that as if ME2 zealots are any different in their rabid defense of the changes made.

I like how you failed to notice he didn't say anything about ME1 or ME2, but simply described a particular personality type.

[skcih-deraj]

desonnac00 wrote...

Speaking of retcons and DC 

Exactly! 

I started picking comics back up during Infinate Crisis and if Bioware's writers have Saren punching a hole in reality and everything starts over I will quit the series forever!