204 réponses à ce sujet

[voteDC]

I've always been conflicted on the thermal clip system. SOmetimes I hate it and at other times I think it ads to the fun.

I do have issue with it being a technical advancement for all weapons though.

I can kind of understand it if you are always going to be able to access fresh supplies but what soldier is going to pick up dropped equipment and put it into their own weapon, when they have no idea of the build quality or if that item has been booby-trapped.

Also is it really a system suitable for a sniper rifle? After all as a sniper you are going to want to take the minimum equipment that you need. Thermal clips just add more equipment and weight for you to carry compared to a weapons that can shoot without needing them.

I know others have suggested a hybrid system for the weapons, where 'ammo' regenerates over a period of time.

Perhaps another option would be to have both systems available in the game. You can pick an assault rifle, for example, which as the ammo limit and thermal clip system or one which has 'infinite' ammo but an overheat.

Then to make the choice more interesting have it that the weapon with the thermal clip does more damage than the one with the overheat.

[Yeti13]

ohh smudboy,decent vids but try not to pick so many fights. I came to these forums to discuss my love the mass effect universe and instead i got 10 pages of reasons why my ideas for me3 cant happen.

[Phaedon]

Fiery Phoenix wrote...

Smud is in fact banned, Phaedon. Permabanned, even. Apparently he was badmouthed by someone, to whom he returned the nonsense and then ended up being permabanned.

His username would be grey and unclickable if that was the case, wouldn't it?

[Fiery Phoenix]

Phaedon wrote...

Fiery Phoenix wrote...

Smud is in fact banned, Phaedon. Permabanned, even. Apparently he was badmouthed by someone, to whom he returned the nonsense and then ended up being permabanned.

His username would be grey and unclickable if that was the case, wouldn't it?

Oh no, that only happens if your account is deleted altogether. Smud is just banned, not deleted.

[Sailears]

Ill Logic wrote...

I have now watched all of his vids and I was entertained. Yup he makes several good points, and some nitpicky ones, but overall his critique was well presented.

I'm sure Bioware peeps have watched all of these vids, and giggled while taking notes.

Yep, he does bring up good points which are worthy for Bioware to take into consideration, instead of dusting under the carpet with a big 9.6/10 on it.
I love both games, but there is certainly no harm (in fact a lot of good can come from it) in exploring these issues.

[Nozybidaj]

Haha, this thread is awesome. I bet Smudboy is off reading this somewhere laughing his *** off.

[Nozybidaj]

Gleym wrote...

The only well-developed and interesting characters in all of ME2 are Mordin and Legion, and Legion hardly even gets that much development for that matter. Tali and Garrus don't count on account of them being from the previous game, meaning half of their character development took place during that game. The rest are boring, uninteresting stereotypes that I couldn't care less about.

Otherwise, ME2 suits Bay's style perfectly. Lots and lots of flashy explosions, random action sequences, ****** and ass, utterly pointless love plots woven in, and more than anything else? A crapton of meaningless side-stories that have nothing to do with the main plot taking up 80% of the screentime. Heck, it's like Transformers 2 all over again, especially with the boring, anticlimactic final boss. It even has a pointless death and rebirth of a main character. Hurray!

Agree with everything there except the Legion bit.  He could have been interesting but was barely developed beyond robot dancing.

[aftohsix]

Yeti13 wrote...

ohh smudboy,decent vids but try not to pick so many fights. I came to these forums to discuss my love the mass effect universe and instead i got 10 pages of reasons why my ideas for me3 cant happen.

haha!  Welcome to the Official Bioware Mass Effect Forum!  Where you can discuss the following topics:

X-box is best

Mass Effect 2 is a terrible game

Bioware is a bunch of no good sellouts

Mass Effect 1 is best

PS3 Mass Effect 2 has ruined the game for everyone

Mass Effect 3 is going to suck

Suspension of disbelief in fiction!  Never heard of it!

I hate Mass Effect but I still post here

I love to take an obscure fact and jump to radical conclusions don't you!

and much more.!  Side effects from prolonged exposure include your brain leaking out of your ear.

[aeetos21]

I love both games, they're my favorites of all time, but the retcons do bug me and I think it should be added to the list of things to get right in ME3, at least the important ones. Maybe one minor spoiler in my list but absolutely nothing major (I'm keeping it vague):

- Effects of the vacuum of space on exposed flesh
- Realistic thermal clip and other ammo applications (including faster than light weapons)
- No more out of character and sliding on the storyline (pretty much everything Cerberus and the Alliance)
- Hammer down the physics/laws of mass effect fields and stick to it
- Better death scenes, the reviewer was gentle with the whole how Shepard died. We see Shepard pick up ton plus objects in the game (one of which only seconds before the end scene) there was no way he should've (SPOILER REDACTED) at the end.

One of the biggest selling points of ME2 was just how cinematic and awestriking it is - so naturally it makes sense that a movie video game hybrid would tend to have a lot more plot holes because of its dramatic cinematic scenes and why its unfair to compare ME2 (granted a science fiction genre game) to other science fiction games that don't have to worry so much about all the drama and cinematic scenes.

Still I think there's room for a happy middle ground between the retcon and the cinematic. During their development of ME3 I hope BW takes into consideration this review and what other players on the forums are saying. In the end they will always choose the route that will get them the better reviews, happier players, and more money but I believe there is room for that as well as limiting yourself to what can and cannot happen in our universe.

ME3 will be the end of Shepard's story but no person in their right mind would let go of such a promising IP. I encourage BW to use this chance with ME3 to once more throw out the things that don't work and to finally write in stone the laws of the ME universe for both the Shepard story and future ME games.

Modifié par aeetos21, 19 janvier 2011 - 08:50 .

[desonnac00]

Seriously though- the thermal clips system argument is pointless- it is simply a fix for the overheat problem.

[Knottedredloc]

aftohsix wrote...

Yeti13 wrote...

ohh smudboy,decent vids but try not to pick so many fights. I came to these forums to discuss my love the mass effect universe and instead i got 10 pages of reasons why my ideas for me3 cant happen.

haha!  Welcome to the Official Bioware Mass Effect Forum!  Where you can discuss the following topics:

X-box is best

Mass Effect 2 is a terrible game

Bioware is a bunch of no good sellouts

Mass Effect 1 is best

PS3 Mass Effect 2 has ruined the game for everyone

Mass Effect 3 is going to suck

Suspension of disbelief in fiction!  Never heard of it!

I hate Mass Effect but I still post here

I love to take an obscure fact and jump to radical conclusions don't you!

and much more.!  Side effects from prolonged exposure include your brain leaking out of your ear.

Hmmmmm.  Being that you post here regularly what little brain you did have must have surely leaked out of you ear.  I mean you've got to be brainless if you feel those are the characteristics of this board yet you are still here.  Brainless or insane....

[aftohsix]

Knottedredloc wrote...

aftohsix wrote...

Yeti13 wrote...

ohh smudboy,decent vids but try not to pick so many fights. I came to these forums to discuss my love the mass effect universe and instead i got 10 pages of reasons why my ideas for me3 cant happen.

haha!  Welcome to the Official Bioware Mass Effect Forum!  Where you can discuss the following topics:

X-box is best

Mass Effect 2 is a terrible game

Bioware is a bunch of no good sellouts

Mass Effect 1 is best

PS3 Mass Effect 2 has ruined the game for everyone

Mass Effect 3 is going to suck

Suspension of disbelief in fiction!  Never heard of it!

I hate Mass Effect but I still post here

I love to take an obscure fact and jump to radical conclusions don't you!

and much more.!  Side effects from prolonged exposure include your brain leaking out of your ear.

Hmmmmm.  Being that you post here regularly what little brain you did have must have surely leaked out of you ear.  I mean you've got to be brainless if you feel those are the characteristics of this board yet you are still here.  Brainless or insane....

Not sure what you're getting at?  X-box isn't best??

Dude I'm so confused.

If I'm brainless for still posting here I'm just following the leader since so many people here clearly hate both Bioware and the direction they've gone with Mass Effect.

Modifié par aftohsix, 19 janvier 2011 - 08:59 .

[JKoopman]

ianmcdonald wrote...

I thought the whole point of video games was to escape reality and be entertained for a few hours. To say you don't enjoy a futuristic sci-fi action/shooter/RPG game because "that's not how it would work in real life" is pretty lame. Like someone said earlier, suspend disbelief and enjoy it for what it is: a video game.

These videos do bring up some valid points, but does it prevent me from enjoying the game? No. It's a video game.

Be that as it may, there needs to be a layer of believability present or else the whole story falls apart. If ME3 were to end with Shepard farting out an egg that hatches into Falcor the Luck Dragon from the Neverending Story and then he flew off on its back to fight the Reaper invasion with the help of a magic book that lets him shoot lightning bolts out of his eyes, would that be a good story? To a 4-year-old, maybe. The rest of us expect a bit more from our storytellers.

You may consider it being overly anal, but some people view things like walking around in the vacuum of space in nothing but a nipple harness and a respirator mask, or staring directly through a kinetic barrier at a star without suffering a fatal dose of radiation and bursting into flames, or a power cell being able to somehow resupply a missile launcher and a flamethrower as being nearly as ludicrous.

Modifié par JKoopman, 19 janvier 2011 - 09:44 .

[emanziboy]

JKoopman wrote...

ianmcdonald wrote...

I thought the whole point of video games was to escape reality and be entertained for a few hours. To say you don't enjoy a futuristic sci-fi action/shooter/RPG game because "that's not how it would work in real life" is pretty lame. Like someone said earlier, suspend disbelief and enjoy it for what it is: a video game.

These videos do bring up some valid points, but does it prevent me from enjoying the game? No. It's a video game.

Be that as it may, there needs to be a layer of believability present or else the whole story falls apart. If ME3 were to end with Shepard farting out an egg that hatches into Falcor the Luck Dragon from the Neverending Story and then he flew off on its back to fight the Reaper invasion with the help of a magic book that lets him shoot lightning bolts out of his eyes, would that be a good story? To a 4-year-old, maybe. The rest of us expect a bit more from our storytellers.

You may consider it being overly anal, but some people view things like walking around in the vacuum of space in nothing but a nipple harness and a respirator mask, or staring directly through a kinetic barrier at a star without suffering a fatal dose of radiation and bursting into flames, or a power cell being able to somehow resupply a missile launcher and a flamethrower as being nearly as ludicrous.

The problem with that thinking is that you're making such a big deal about these relatively small things when there is something much more ludicrous than these that makes up the backbone of the entire series - element zero. There is no such thing as an element that changes mass depending on the electrical current running through it. It is completely, absolutely, 100% made up, but it is the basis for almost all technology in the Mass Effect universe. In fact, the franchise itself is named after what basically amounts to space magic.

But here's the thing - we don't care. It's just an explanation for how there's space faring civilizations and people who can use magic. It doesn't really matter to us how flimsy the actual science behind it is to set the table for great story.

That is why it absolutely boggles my mind when people are willing to susbend their disbelief for that, but are still complaining aout these relatively minor scientific faults. If these things really bother you that much and ruin your enjoyment for ME2, then you would have never have even made it through ME1 in the first place, let alone being able to call it a great game.

[JKoopman]

emanziboy wrote...

JKoopman wrote...

ianmcdonald wrote...

I thought the whole point of video games was to escape reality and be entertained for a few hours. To say you don't enjoy a futuristic sci-fi action/shooter/RPG game because "that's not how it would work in real life" is pretty lame. Like someone said earlier, suspend disbelief and enjoy it for what it is: a video game.

These videos do bring up some valid points, but does it prevent me from enjoying the game? No. It's a video game.

Be that as it may, there needs to be a layer of believability present or else the whole story falls apart. If ME3 were to end with Shepard farting out an egg that hatches into Falcor the Luck Dragon from the Neverending Story and then he flew off on its back to fight the Reaper invasion with the help of a magic book that lets him shoot lightning bolts out of his eyes, would that be a good story? To a 4-year-old, maybe. The rest of us expect a bit more from our storytellers.

You may consider it being overly anal, but some people view things like walking around in the vacuum of space in nothing but a nipple harness and a respirator mask, or staring directly through a kinetic barrier at a star without suffering a fatal dose of radiation and bursting into flames, or a power cell being able to somehow resupply a missile launcher and a flamethrower as being nearly as ludicrous.

The problem with that thinking is that you're making such a big deal about these relatively small things when there is something much more ludicrous than these that makes up the backbone of the entire series - element zero. There is no such thing as an element that changes mass depending on the electrical current running through it. It is completely, absolutely, 100% made up, but it is the basis for almost all technology in the Mass Effect universe. In fact, the franchise itself is named after what basically amounts to space magic.

But here's the thing - we don't care. It's just an explanation for how there's space faring civilizations and people who can use magic. It doesn't really matter to us how flimsy the actual science behind it is to set the table for great story.

That is why it absolutely boggles my mind when people are willing to susbend their disbelief for that, but are still complaining aout these relatively minor scientific faults. If these things really bother you that much and ruin your enjoyment for ME2, then you would have never have even made it through ME1 in the first place, let alone being able to call it a great game.

There is no problem. Element Zero exists in the fictional Mass Effect universe, and by extension everything that Element Zero allows for is able to be accepted as part of that universe. What's important is that it remain internally consistent. According to the game's own fiction, a kinetic or biotic barrier doesn't protect against radiation, heat, or vacuum, so when you see examples in-game that defy this, it breaks consistency. No different than if Shepard were to fall into a volcano and somehow emerge unscathed.

Take a writing class and you'll understand.

Modifié par JKoopman, 20 janvier 2011 - 12:51 .

[Iakus]

emanziboy wrote...

That is why it absolutely boggles my mind when people are willing to susbend their disbelief for that, but are still complaining aout these relatively minor scientific faults. If these things really bother you that much and ruin your enjoyment for ME2, then you would have never have even made it through ME1 in the first place, let alone being able to call it a great game.

It's not a matter of reality.  At least, not to me.  It's a mtter of internal consistency, which ME 2 seems to have forsaken in the name of "awsomeness"

In ME 1, people suited up to go out into toxic enviroments.  Kinetic barriers could only protect you against certain things, and were useless in many other situations.  Now barriers are nothing more than Star Trek-y "force fields" That can do anything from protect you from energy weapons, hold in atmospheres, and maybe do your taxes for you too.  PLus it excuses oyu from actually wearing armor while in combat. 

In ME 1, mass effect fields and barriers may have been "magic"  but it was limited magic that was situational.  There were certain things they could not do, and they functioned based on certain rules.  Now it's a truly magical catch all that can explain any situation.  Except armored opponents, then it's useless

[bjdbwea]

I agree that consistency is important. From one game of the trilogy to another, as well as within each game itself. Unfortunately, neither seems to have been deemed very important during the development of ME 2.

[Shotokanguy]

JKoopman wrote...

ianmcdonald wrote...

I thought the whole point of video games was to escape reality and be entertained for a few hours. To say you don't enjoy a futuristic sci-fi action/shooter/RPG game because "that's not how it would work in real life" is pretty lame. Like someone said earlier, suspend disbelief and enjoy it for what it is: a video game.

These videos do bring up some valid points, but does it prevent me from enjoying the game? No. It's a video game.

Be that as it may, there needs to be a layer of believability present or else the whole story falls apart. If ME3 were to end with Shepard farting out an egg that hatches into Falcor the Luck Dragon from the Neverending Story and then he flew off on its back to fight the Reaper invasion with the help of a magic book that lets him shoot lightning bolts out of his eyes, would that be a good story? To a 4-year-old, maybe. The rest of us expect a bit more from our storytellers.

You may consider it being overly anal, but some people view things like walking around in the vacuum of space in nothing but a nipple harness and a respirator mask, or staring directly through a kinetic barrier at a star without suffering a fatal dose of radiation and bursting into flames, or a power cell being able to somehow resupply a missile launcher and a flamethrower as being nearly as ludicrous.

Yeah, your first paragraph and the things in the second are totally comparable.

As I said on page 5, is it really that hard to use your imagination? The Normandy's mass effect fields were still up as Shepard helped Joker, but the ship was falling apart. They weren't in a vacuum until the ship actually breaks off and Shepard goes bye bye. There. A little bit of imagination fixes that. So does Jack's clothing problem - you never go into a full vacuum during ME2's campaign.

The star and its radiation? How do we even know the Illusive Man is anywhere close to that star? What if it's just magnified because he wanted his office to look cool as hell? That's not exactly out of the question for his character.

The power cell thing is just the most extreme example of an inability to have some fun. 

[emanziboy]

JKoopman wrote...

There is no problem. Element Zero exists in the fictional Mass Effect universe, and by extension everything that Element Zero allows for is able to be accepted as part of that universe. What's important is that it remain internally consistent. According to the game's own fiction, a kinetic or biotic barrier doesn't protect against radiation, heat, or vacuum, so when you see examples in-game that defy this, it breaks consistency. No different than if Shepard were to fall into a volcano and somehow emerge unscathed.

Take a writing class and you'll understand.

The reason Bioware gave them their outfits and  only respirators for when they were in space is because it's much harder to relate to someone behind a mask. When you completely cover someone up, it becomes much harder to emphasize with them as a human being. How many movies have you seen where the bad guys faces are covered up behind a mask? If you were to put Jack in full body armor and a helmet, you'd be taking a lot her identity away which isn't a good idea when the main focus of your story is your characters. And what does your writing class say is more important to a story: character development or whether or not kenitic barriers are being used exactly the correct way as described in an entry buried in a codex.

[Felfenix]

JKoopman wrote...

Take a writing class and you'll understand.

Yeah, take a writing class like JKoopman! He's a way more successful writer than the people actually writing ME's story! I mean... he writes... really bad fan fiction or something?

[JKoopman]

Shotokanguy wrote...

Yeah, your first paragraph and the things in the second are totally comparable.

That you and others don't understand enough about physics or care enough about the game's universe to read the codex descriptions and can therefor suspend your disbelief in those situations doesn't mean that to others it's not practically slapping them in the face just as badly as my fanciful little story. Again, would you think it at all odd if Shepard decided to go for a swim in 4,000° lava and came out unscathed? Because that's no different from many of the other physics-defying inconsistencies that cropped up in ME2.

Shotokanguy wrote...

As I said on page 5, is it really that hard to use your imagination? The Normandy's mass effect fields were still up as Shepard helped Joker, but the ship was falling apart. They weren't in a vacuum until the ship actually breaks off and Shepard goes bye bye. There. A little bit of imagination fixes that. So does Jack's clothing problem - you never go into a full vacuum during ME2's campaign.

Except for the fact that they were obviously in a vacuum, hence why all the air gets sucked out of the lower decks as soon as Shepard enters the CIC and why the external audio is muted (since sound doesn't travel in a void). That's not so much the power of imagination as it is the power of denial.

Shotokanguy wrote...

The star and its radiation? How do we even know the Illusive Man is anywhere close to that star? What if it's just magnified because he wanted his office to look cool as hell? That's not exactly out of the question for his character.

Wrong scene. The one I'm referencing (and the one referenced in the video) is at the end where Shepard is looking out at a nearby star through one of the gaping holes in the Normandy's hangar deck.

emanziboy wrote...

The reason Bioware gave them their outfits and  only respirators for when they were in space is because it's much harder to relate to someone behind a mask. When you completely cover someone up, it becomes much harder to emphasize with them as a human being. How many movies have you seen where the bad guys faces are covered up behind a mask? If you were to put Jack in full body armor and a helmet, you'd be taking a lot her identity away which isn't a good idea when the main focus of your story is your characters. And what does your writing class say is more important to a story: character development or whether or not kenitic barriers are being used exactly the correct way as described in an entry buried in a codex.

Nobody seems to have much trouble "relating" to Tali despite never seeing her face. And somehow I doubt it would preclude character development to have them wearing sealed suits and helmets for 5% of the game where appropriate.

Modifié par JKoopman, 20 janvier 2011 - 02:03 .

[JKoopman]

Felfenix wrote...

JKoopman wrote...

Take a writing class and you'll understand.

Yeah, take a writing class like JKoopman! He's a way more successful writer than the people actually writing ME's story! I mean... he writes... really bad fan fiction or something?

That was completely uncalled for.

So I guess a person isn't allowed to critique art unless they're a famous artist? They can't know good music unless they're a successful musician? They're not allowed to review movies unless they've directed their own? Is that what you're saying?

Modifié par JKoopman, 20 janvier 2011 - 02:01 .

[bjdbwea]

Felfenix wrote...

JKoopman wrote...

Take a writing class and you'll understand.

Yeah, take a writing class like JKoopman! He's a way more successful writer than the people actually writing ME's story! I mean... he writes... really bad fan fiction or something?

Or perhaps he writes good fan fiction that's better than the writing in ME 2. Because that exists, which should make the writers of ME 2 wonder.

[Felfenix]

JKoopman wrote...

Felfenix wrote...

JKoopman wrote...

Take a writing class and you'll understand.

Yeah, take a writing class like JKoopman! He's a way more successful writer than the people actually writing ME's story! I mean... he writes... really bad fan fiction or something?

That was completely uncalled for.

So I guess a person isn't allowed to critique art unless they're a famous artist? They can't know good music unless they're a successful musician? They're not allowed to review movies unless they've directed their own? Is that what you're saying?

Hey, you're the one calling him out for not being as accomplished a writer as you, but whatever, no point anyone makes will ever change your mind. You'll just conjure up another reason to rant, rave, and invalidate any opinion that's not your own, even if it contradicts your prior posts.

Modifié par Felfenix, 20 janvier 2011 - 02:17 .