204 réponses à ce sujet

[Felfenix]

Bennyjammin79 wrote...

Can we get a lock since there is a carbon copy of of this EXACT topic in the CORRECT forum: 
http://social.biowar...index/5716600/1

But we need several threads, across every forum making the exact same complaint that everything about ME2 was bad, it's the worst game ever (that's why they post here about it every day for months and make YouTube videos), and Bioware are dirty hack sellouts that don't know how to write. If you don't agree with EVERY and ANY complaint, and feel the need to repost the same thread several times, then you're just a dirty mindless zombie. If everyone in the world doesn't hate EVERYTHING about ME2, then... that might invalidate the only "cause" they "stand for" in their life.

[emanziboy]

JKoopman wrote...

Nobody seems to have much trouble "relating" to Tali despite never seeing her face. And somehow I doubt it would preclude character development to have them wearing sealed suits and helmets for 5% of the game where appropriate.

But a lot of her character comes from the from the fact that she's completely covered. It affects her personality and her motivations. They actually used  her mask as a way to develop her character. The fact that she's so relatable is because of great writing and voice acting.

As far everyone else goes, putting a character like mordin in battle armor would really only stifle their identity, and is slaving over a detail in a codex really all that important that you're willing to sacrifice a part of someone's character?

[JKoopman]

I'm sensing a lot of resentment and hostility from you, Felfenix. Why is that? I'm sorry that not everyone thinks that Mass Effect 2 is flawless and needs no improvement, but you really need to stop looking at every criticism of the game as some sort of personal attack.

And for the record, telling someone that their understanding of the literary process would likely benefit from a writing class is not akin to bragging that I'm a much better writer than anyone at BioWare. Nor is it akin to labeling someone an unsuccessful writer of bad fan-fiction by way of reply. If you can't be civil, leave.

emanziboy wrote...

JKoopman wrote...

Nobody seems to have much trouble "relating" to Tali despite never seeing her face. And somehow I doubt it would preclude character development to have them wearing sealed suits and helmets for 5% of the game where appropriate.

But a lot of her character comes from the from the fact that she's completely covered. It affects her personality and her motivations. They actually used  her mask as a way to develop her character. The fact that she's so relatable is because of great writing and voice acting.

As far everyone else goes, putting a character like mordin in battle armor would really only stifle their identity, and is slaving over a detail in a codex really all that important that you're willing to sacrifice a part of someone's character?

Does Garrus' character suffer because he wears a sealed helmet on missions where appropriate? How about Grunt? Or Zaeed? What about Wrex, or Kaiden, or Liara or Ashley? Did any of them suffer from poor development in ME1 for being in full-body sealed suits when on missions?

It's not like a helmet would have to obscure their entire face anyway. Make it out of the same transparent material the current respirator masks are made of, just extend it to cover their whole head.

Modifié par JKoopman, 20 janvier 2011 - 03:54 .

[Felfenix]

Are you capable of arguing based on facts at all, or just BS? I know, I think ME2 is SO perfect. That's why I've been complaining about the number of squadmates, the lack of banter, the lack of elevators, and the overall impotency of powers/squadmates. Oh, but that doesn't fit into your little nerdrage because I don't agree that every single little nitpicky whine is an irrefutable fact. You really should calm down over a video game. You're not "an hero" for this, you know.

Part of the change they deliberately made in ME2 was giving characters a look of their own, instead of everyone wearing the exact same recolored suit Shepard wears like in ME1. It was so successful they're even carrying that philosophy into Dragon Age 2.

Modifié par Felfenix, 20 janvier 2011 - 04:27 .

[JKoopman]

Felfenix wrote...

Are you capable of arguing based on facts at all, or just BS? I know, I think ME2 is SO perfect. That's why I've been complaining about the number of squadmates, the lack of banter, the lack of elevators, and the overall impotency of powers/squadmates. Oh, but that doesn't fit into your little nerdrage because I don't agree that every single little nitpicky whine is an irrefutable fact. You really should calm down over a video game. You're not "an hero" for this, you know.

Part of the change they deliberately made in ME2 was giving characters a look of their own, instead of everyone wearing the exact same recolored suit Shepard wears like in ME1. It was so successful they're even carrying that philosophy into Dragon Age 2.

The only one I see "raging" around here is you. The rest of us are just having a discussion. So maybe you should take your own advice, calm down, and lay off the insults.

[Schneidend]

JKoopman wrote...

Does Garrus' character suffer because he wears a sealed helmet on missions where appropriate? How about Grunt? Or Zaeed? What about Wrex, or Kaiden, or Liara or Ashley? Did any of them suffer from poor development in ME1 for being in full-body sealed suits when on missions?

It's not like a helmet would have to obscure their entire face anyway. Make it out of the same transparent material the current respirator masks are made of, just extend it to cover their whole head.

Grunt and Zaeed have flesh exposed, so they're equally boned in these situations.

[JKoopman]

Schneidend wrote...

JKoopman wrote...

Does Garrus' character suffer because he wears a sealed helmet on missions where appropriate? How about Grunt? Or Zaeed? What about Wrex, or Kaiden, or Liara or Ashley? Did any of them suffer from poor development in ME1 for being in full-body sealed suits when on missions?

It's not like a helmet would have to obscure their entire face anyway. Make it out of the same transparent material the current respirator masks are made of, just extend it to cover their whole head.

Grunt and Zaeed have flesh exposed, so they're equally boned in these situations.

True. But that's not something that I'm arguing; only that their character doesn't suffer for having their face covered during those portions of the game.

Believe me, I'd love it if Grunt and Zaeed would quit showing off their biceps and cover up, but that's a whole different thread.

Modifié par JKoopman, 20 janvier 2011 - 05:31 .

[Walker White]

So I am curious about this story segregation idea. Do its adherents believe that Seven Samurai has a poor story? If so, why is it a film classic? And if not, what is the difference?

[Schneidend]

But...the female clans love biceps, JKoop. Are you suggesting Grunt disappoint the female clans?

[JKoopman]

Schneidend wrote...

But...the female clans love biceps, JKoop. Are you suggesting Grunt disappoint the female clans?

Heavens, no! He can strut his stuff all he likes when we're on Tuchanka. I just ask that he put some long sleeves on before we board the scary derelict alien ship.

Modifié par JKoopman, 20 janvier 2011 - 05:53 .

[Felfenix]

JKoopman wrote...

Felfenix wrote...

Are you capable of arguing based on facts at all, or just BS? I know, I think ME2 is SO perfect. That's why I've been complaining about the number of squadmates, the lack of banter, the lack of elevators, and the overall impotency of powers/squadmates. Oh, but that doesn't fit into your little nerdrage because I don't agree that every single little nitpicky whine is an irrefutable fact. You really should calm down over a video game. You're not "an hero" for this, you know.

Part of the change they deliberately made in ME2 was giving characters a look of their own, instead of everyone wearing the exact same recolored suit Shepard wears like in ME1. It was so successful they're even carrying that philosophy into Dragon Age 2.

The only one I see "raging" around here is you. The rest of us are just having a discussion. So maybe you should take your own advice, calm down, and lay off the insults.

Way to avoid all points and resort to insults, as usual. Maybe you should calm down and... try to discuss things... instead of getting worked up that not everybody hates everything? If you so passionately despise every detail of the game, and can't tolerate even being around people who may like SOME things about the game, then you should probably avoid forums or other places you might run into other people.

Part of the change they deliberately made in ME2 was giving characters a look of their own, instead of everyone wearing the exact same recolored suit. It was so successful they're even carrying that philosophy into Dragon Age 2.

Halo sounds like more your kind of game though. The characters are covered in armor from head to toe, and plasma weapons use heat instead of clips. You can play it offline, solo, too, if you don't have anyone you enjoy playing with, or enjoys playing with you.

Modifié par Felfenix, 20 janvier 2011 - 06:49 .

[Gleym]

I like how nothing in JKoopman's quoted post contained a single insult, whereas yours contained several thinly veiled ones. And then you mock me and call me a trolling elitist. *Scoff*

[Felfenix]

Gleym wrote...

I like how nothing in JKoopman's quoted post contained a single insult, whereas yours contained several thinly veiled ones. And then you mock me and call me a trolling elitist. *Scoff*

Please, quote and link to where I've called you a trolling elitist. Thanks for contributing to the discussion though. Very on-topic of you.

Modifié par Felfenix, 20 janvier 2011 - 06:22 .

[SithLordExarKun]

JKoopman wrote...


The only one I see "raging" around here is you. The rest of us are just having a discussion. So maybe you should take your own advice, calm down, and lay off the insults.

O really? Even if it were true, its insignificant comapred to the ME1 zealots  raging on the forum making thread after thread for an entire year.

[JKoopman]

Gleym wrote...

I like how nothing in JKoopman's quoted post contained a single insult, whereas yours contained several thinly veiled ones. And then you mock me and call me a trolling elitist. *Scoff*

It's beome patently obvious to me that Felfenix suffers from some sort of paranoid-schizophrenic delusion of persecution. Check out the Why all the hate with the ammo? thread for further evidence.

SithLordExarKun wrote...

JKoopman wrote...

The only one I see "raging" around here is you. The rest of us are just having a discussion. So maybe you should take your own advice, calm down, and lay off the insults.

O really? Even if it were true, its insignificant comapred to the ME1 zealots  raging on the forum making thread after thread for an entire year.

Yes. And clearly I'm personally to blame for that.

Modifié par JKoopman, 20 janvier 2011 - 06:53 .

[Felfenix]

JKoopman wrote...

Gleym wrote...

I like how nothing in JKoopman's quoted post contained a single insult, whereas yours contained several thinly veiled ones. And then you mock me and call me a trolling elitist. *Scoff*

It's beome patently obvious to me that Felfenix suffers from some sort of paranoid-schizophrenic delusion of persecution. Check out the Why all the hate with the ammo? thread for further evidence.

SithLordExarKun wrote...

JKoopman wrote...

The only one I see "raging" around here is you. The rest of us are just having a discussion. So maybe you should take your own advice, calm down, and lay off the insults.

O really? Even if it were true, its insignificant comapred to the ME1 zealots  raging on the forum making thread after thread for an entire year.

Yes. And clearly I'm personally to blame for that.

You're right. Everyone is crazy and out to get you. It's a conspiracy that me, SithLordExarKun, and all the rest of the dirty oppressive Mass Effect fans are in on.

http://social.biowar...page/site-rules

I suggest reading site rules 1-5, and if you are going to post in a discussion, to discuss the points of the thread topic. This isn't a Facebook for your own personal drama.

It's been addressed why characters have unique and varied appearances. You can refute the point or take your personal issues to PMs, blogs, whatever. I highly suggest actually checking that link though.

Modifié par Felfenix, 20 janvier 2011 - 07:01 .

[JKoopman]

Felfenix wrote...

JKoopman wrote...

Gleym wrote...

I like how nothing in JKoopman's quoted post contained a single insult, whereas yours contained several thinly veiled ones. And then you mock me and call me a trolling elitist. *Scoff*

It's beome patently obvious to me that Felfenix suffers from some sort of paranoid-schizophrenic delusion of persecution. Check out the Why all the hate with the ammo? thread for further evidence.

SithLordExarKun wrote...

JKoopman wrote...

The only one I see "raging" around here is you. The rest of us are just having a discussion. So maybe you should take your own advice, calm down, and lay off the insults.

O really? Even if it were true, its insignificant comapred to the ME1 zealots  raging on the forum making thread after thread for an entire year.

Yes. And clearly I'm personally to blame for that.

You're right. Everyone is crazy and out to get you. It's a conspiracy that me, SithLordExarKun, and all the rest of the dirty oppressive Mass Effect fans are in on.

Nope. Just you.

Felfenix wrote...

http://social.biowar...page/site-rules

I suggest reading site rules 1-5, and if you are going to post in a discussion, to discuss the points of the thread topic. This isn't a Facebook for your own personal drama.

Advice you should probably take yourself, as you haven't seemed hesitant to create post after post for no other reason than to personally insult me for imaginary wrongs I've commited against you. The fact that you try to claim innocence in spite of all the evidence to the contrary is honestly quite hilarious.

But very well, if you want this discussion to get back on topic, you're free not to reply with your usual snarky comment riddled with thinly-veiled insults claiming to be the poor persecuted victim in all this. I won't be holding my breath.

Modifié par JKoopman, 20 janvier 2011 - 07:06 .

[Pacifien]

Felfenix, JKoopman, take it to PM.

[aftohsix]

Walker White wrote...

So I am curious about this story segregation idea. Do its adherents believe that Seven Samurai has a poor story? If so, why is it a film classic? And if not, what is the difference?

I too would like an answer to this question.

[PoisonTea]

Mass Effect 2 succeeds in so many ways but completely fails in others.

[MaaZeus]

Shotokanguy wrote...
 So does Jack's clothing problem - you never go into a full vacuum during ME2's campaign.

There are atleast two missions where you are in complete vacuum: Derelict reaper after you destroy its engine, mass fields are immidietly taken down and you are open to vacuum (and not to mention exposed brown dwarfs immense gravity). Second is Legions loyalty mission. There is no air or other gasses what so ever in the base, so no air pressure. Trying to tie air and heat inside the base would be a waste of resources, Legion himself said this, as Geth require neither being synthetics and all.

Modifié par MaaZeus, 20 janvier 2011 - 04:00 .

[bjdbwea]

aftohsix wrote...

Walker White wrote...

So I am curious about this story segregation idea. Do its adherents believe that Seven Samurai has a poor story? If so, why is it a film classic? And if not, what is the difference?

I too would like an answer to this question.

I think that the question was just an attempt to deflect criticism from ME 2, possibly from someone who has never actually seen the movie. But if you really want to know:

No one questions that a movie or a game that focuses on characters and how they work together as a group can work and be interesting. There is more than one movie that shows this, and games too. BG 2 for example, DA, or even ME 1. The problem with ME 2 is not the idea, but the execution. It tries to focus on the characters, but it fails.

Because every companion only exists in their own small world. They only come to life during their recruitment and loyalty quests. They don't care about their companions. They don't talk with each other, they don't work together. They don't care about the main mission. They have no opinions. And there's too little dialogue between them and Shepard, even less if they aren't romanced.

Not to speak of the fact that the concept of loyalty in ME 2 is as shallow as it is ridiculous. Without posting any spoilers, it's just a switch, and even then it only matters in one single situation at the end of the game. A situation where loyalty actually has little to do with the things that happen. What a difference to DA, what a difference to AP, what a difference even to NV. And none of these games even tried to excuse the lack of a main story by telling us that they were character-driven.

Modifié par bjdbwea, 20 janvier 2011 - 04:30 .

[Iakus]

bjdbwea wrote...

Because every companion only exists in their own small world. They only come to life during their recruitment and loyalty quests. They don't care about their companions. They don't talk with each other, they don't work together. They don't care about the main mission. They have no opinions. And there's too little dialogue between them and Shepard, even less if they aren't romanced.

This.

I suggest watching The Dirty Dozen, the Magnificient Seven, or The Seven Samurai (all great movies anyway) and actually compare them to ME 2's story.  ME2's story is completely disjointed in comparison.  It's not about loyalty, or teamwork, or even about a suicide mission.  It's about twelve seperate short stories loosely tied together via Shepard and the Normandy.  Hardly the stuff of a second volume to a trilogy.

[bjdbwea]

And ME 1 is actually more character-driven than ME 2. For example their appearance in the briefings, their comments during the missions, their conversations during elevator rides, their opinions about the outcome of each story mission. Of course that's easier to do if you have less companions, but there was never any need to include a whole dozen of companions in ME 2. Half of that would have been enough already, preferably those from ME 1, because then the writers wouldn't have had to introduce the companions again, but could have concentrated on their actual characters.

Modifié par bjdbwea, 20 janvier 2011 - 07:19 .

[Nozybidaj]

bjdbwea wrote...
Only that it wasn't, none of the changes in ME 2 , except obviously for the improvements in graphics and sound, were for the better (all in my opinion, of course).

I liked most of the gameplay improvements as well.  Made the game feel like it played much smoother.  Still, I don't usually play BW games because they have great gameplay.  If I want to play a good shooter I'll go grab GoW or something. 

The complete abandonment of the previous characters, the departure from the story of the first game, the total lack of advancement of the storyline, and the lolworthy characters, dialogue, and "plot" just totally killed the game for me.  When I measure this game as I measure all BW games (story and characters) it is by far the worst BW I have ever played.

Of course if those things aren't the things I was playing the game for I probably would have loved it, as evidenced by many of the reviews and scores you see around.  They obviously played the game for different reasons than I did.