129 réponses à ce sujet

[Sable Rhapsody]

Tasha vas Nar Rayya wrote...

Oh, and everyone like Sable, even if she is being facetious

LOL.  Not everyone, not by a long shot   Though at least the Garrus and Thane folks are kind and put up with my snarking.

[Tasha vas Nar Rayya]

We love snarky comments! Especially when it is delivered Sable style!

[Sable Rhapsody]

Tasha vas Nar Rayya wrote...

We love snarky comments! Especially when it is delivered Sable style!

D'aww.  You're a sweetie, Tash 

[Yojimbo_Ltd]

Fiery Phoenix wrote...

Interactive Civilian wrote...

So, how do at minimum Miranda, Jacob, Samara OR Jack, and Legion not fit into this? Remove any of those and the story ceases. No Miranda, no Lazarus project. No Jacob, no getting off the Lazarus facility. No Legion, Shepard dies on the Reaper IFF mission and you have no tech. expert. No Samara or Jack, no way through the seekers in the suicide mission.

Explain to me how the plot ceases to continue without Miranda, Jacob, Samara, Jack, and Legion.

I have to comment on Miranda, though. The Lazarus Project is not the plot of ME2. It's an opening that doesn't get mentioned or discussed anywhere after the first 10 minutes of the game. What ME2's story is about is saving human colonies from Collector abductions, which involves taking out the Collectors. Miranda does nothing that advances the Collector plot. Bringing Shepard back is inconsequential. Anyone could have supervised the Lazarus Project to bring Shepard back. In any event, the plot is about the Collector abductions, not the Lazarus Project.

Having said that, Miranda is involved in the plot. What I mean by involved is her presence is noticeable as she openly voices her opinion on what happens and is directly related to TIM, who is essentially the plot provider. Beyond that, Miranda is as important as anyone other than Mordin. Simply being involved in the plot does not automatically make a character important for it to continue.

And, if we then exclude the fluff characters, who we might as well now consider canon fodder, then all of your essential characters would die after going through the Om4 Relay, due to the lack of ship upgrades.

So? The story has ended, right? That means the plot has successfully come to an end. That's all that matters. It doesn't matter how the story ends; it only matters the story has ended, period.

you are a sexy, sexy person.

[Tasha vas Nar Rayya]

Hehe, you have a fan fiery

[Tasha vas Nar Rayya]

She can kick your ass using her wit and intellect without you even knowing it... And that is impressive!

However, if you are looking at it from this point of view, then none of the characters are plot essential. But it is a 'build your team' game, so without the team you have no game. Mordin and Miranda have small roles to play, but none of the other characters are integral to the plot. So why Thane?

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

Tasha vas Nar Rayya wrote...

She can kick your ass using her wit and intellect without you even knowing it... And that is impressive!
However, if you are looking at it from this point of view, then none of the characters are plot essential. But it is a 'build your team' game, so without the team you have no game. Mordin and Miranda have small roles to play, but none of the other characters are integral to the plot. So why Thane?

Because he is the only one that is completly useless?

[Fiery Phoenix]

Lizardviking wrote...

Tasha vas Nar Rayya wrote...

She can kick your ass using her wit and intellect without you even knowing it... And that is impressive!
However, if you are looking at it from this point of view, then none of the characters are plot essential. But it is a 'build your team' game, so without the team you have no game. Mordin and Miranda have small roles to play, but none of the other characters are integral to the plot. So why Thane?

Because he is the only one that is completly useless?

Mind you, Thane was supposed to be a successful Hold the Line squadmate, but he was replaced with Garrus at the last minute because Garrus was shown defending an entire base singlehandedly with his sniper rifle and the developers wanted to follow suit. Thane has been left with no specific role ever since. However, Dusty Everman said he was also meant to be with you personally on the suicide mission, since his skills work best against the Collectors and husks (Warp, Throw, Shredder Ammo, etc). That's as far as gameplay goes.

[Tasha vas Nar Rayya]

'Because he is completely useless.'

Then don't recruit him. Sorted. But making a statement without any evidence/opinion/debate isn't going to convince me that he is completely useless.

@ Fiery, yeah he was. But warp kicks Harbinger's ass (or daddybags, take your pick.)

Also, he has a high score rating if you leave Thane to defend.

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

Fiery Phoenix wrote...

Lizardviking wrote...

Tasha vas Nar Rayya wrote...

She can kick your ass using her wit and intellect without you even knowing it... And that is impressive!
However, if you are looking at it from this point of view, then none of the characters are plot essential. But it is a 'build your team' game, so without the team you have no game. Mordin and Miranda have small roles to play, but none of the other characters are integral to the plot. So why Thane?

Because he is the only one that is completly useless?

Mind you, Thane was supposed to be a successful Hold the Line squadmate, but he was replaced with Garrus at the last minute because Garrus was shown defending an entire base singlehandedly with his sniper rifle and the developers wanted to follow suit. Thane has been left with no specific role ever since. However, Dusty Everman said he was also meant to be with you personally on the suicide mission, since his skills work best against the Collectors and husks (Warp, Throw, Shredder Ammo, etc). That's as far as gameplay goes.

Good. Because I don't think it would make sense that an assasin that specialise in quick strikes stealth would work in an all out brawl.

[Ramirez Wolfen]

Mesina2 wrote...

Ramirez Wolfen wrote...

Jacob (Irrelevant) - He was just head of security on the Lazarus Project. Why did he need to join you?

Jack/Illusive Man: "Jacob's a soldier, one of the best"

Jack (Irrelevant) - Why have Jack when you can have Samara, who's a much better biotic and isn't likely to kill your crew?

Why have just 1 very powerful Biotic, when you can have 2?( story wise, not game wise)

Morinth (Irrelevant) - Why would you take her with you?

If you are Renegade Shepard, Samara tells she will kill you once her oath ends and finds you. OK you find that after loyalty mission and crew abduction but still to be noted.

1. For Jacob, isn't Shepard the BEST soldier? Why do you need Jacob when you have SHEPARD?

2. I'd rather just have Samara as she isn't an unstable biotic who wants to kill one of the more important people (Miranda)

3. That's only if you are a Renegade that Samara says that.

I cut some of it to make it smaller.

Modifié par Ramirez Wolfen, 21 janvier 2011 - 07:35 .

[Sable Rhapsody]

Tasha vas Nar Rayya wrote...

She can kick your ass using her wit and intellect without you even knowing it... And that is impressive!
However, if you are looking at it from this point of view, then none of the characters are plot essential. But it is a 'build your team' game, so without the team you have no game. Mordin and Miranda have small roles to play, but none of the other characters are integral to the plot. So why Thane?

I think the OP just has a problem with the way ME2 is structured, on top of an opinion that Thane's lack of integration into the main plot makes him useless. 

David Gaider talked in an interview on DA2 about how they go about making party members, and how since they don't know what works for each individual player, they use a variety of party members, hoping some of them will help to form the emotional connection that really pulls the player into the game.  He referred to the party members as narrative ciphers, representatives of the universe who help engage the player.  Thane's just another character who works as a narrative cipher--effectively for some people, not so much for others, and that's how it goes.

[expanding panic]

mangeo wrote...

I just kinda hated ME2 all together compared to the first game but like i was saying those forums are to dangerous to put up so were talking about thane instead.

How do you like ME1 better then ME2? I like the characters better in and gameplay in ME2? And I think I liked the storyline in ME2 better also. So why do you like ME1 better. I don't get it.

[Ramirez Wolfen]

expanding panic wrote...

mangeo wrote...

I just kinda hated ME2 all together compared to the first game but like i was saying those forums are to dangerous to put up so were talking about thane instead.

How do you like ME1 better then ME2? I like the characters better in and gameplay in ME2? And I think I liked the storyline in ME2 better also. So why do you like ME1 better. I don't get it.

I think both of you are right. ME1 is a much better RPG, while ME2 is way more fun to play.

[PrinceLionheart]

Majority of the characters were rather unnecessary when you think about it. When it comes down to it, only Mordin's, Tali's, and Legion's storylines actually expand major side stories in the series. Jacob and Miranda basically serve the role of being "Cerberus is Black and White." 

Everyone else is pretty irrelevant, plotwise.

Modifié par PrinceLionheart, 21 janvier 2011 - 09:23 .

[Ramirez Wolfen]

Exactly what I mean.

[Tasha vas Nar Rayya]

Huh.

Why bring Thane into this then? Hehe

I like ME1's storyline better, and I love Tali, Garrus and Wrex, but the combat system on ME2 is better, and that makes it more fun to play.

Although, I can see what you mean about ME1 being 'more of an RPG.' With the inventory, more sidequests and a bigger galaxy to explore. It's less linear than ME2 as well.