76 réponses à ce sujet

[tangmcgame]

Praetor Shepard wrote...

tonnactus wrote...

It did. It works on the shadowbroker and together with stasis,there is nothing to worry about in that fight.Also,using singularity on mercs when they get in grouped together in the flying platform indeed trivialize fights...

I think slam works well on the SB, also, to lower the shield.

Her Stasis ability will also make him move the shield, so that point is moot.

[Omega-202]

tonnactus wrote...

Omega-202 wrote...


Is she really more powerful though?  Her Singularity doesn't end up trivializing any content you face

It did. It works on the shadowbroker and together with stasis,there is nothing to worry about in that fight.Also,using singularity on mercs when they get in grouped together in the flying platform indeed trivialize fights...

You're kidding right?  All Singularity and Stasis do versus the Shadow Broker are stun him the same way that Warp, Throw, Incinerate etc. do.  Any power that staggers the enemy does the EXACT same thing versus him.  Singularity dissolves instantaneously versus him and only gives you the initial stagger.  There's nothing to worry about in that fight PERIOD.  

How does it trivialize those fights any more than Pull Field?  If you use Singularity on them BEFORE stripping them, the Singularity dissolves in a few seconds.  If you do it after stripping them, Pull Field works just as well.  I found that using Garrus on that section along with a Vanguard with Slam and Liara's Warp was more effective than EVER touching her Singularity.  

AoE Overload -> Slam - > Warp bomb -> all smattered across the floor of the truck nearly dead except for the Engineer.  And that's not even the most efficient combo possible.  If I'd had Pull Field, they'd all be dead except for the Engineer and not nearly dead.  

tangmcgame wrote...

Basically, it boils down to this: the class powers should either be unique or not.  There shouldn't be mixed treatment with them.  Obviously now, with Liara and (arguably) Kasumi, they've proven that they don't mind doling out the class powers, but at release the Engineer was given a raw deal.

The ones that WORK on squadmates were given to squadmates.  Tell me how AR, Charge or Cloak would have worked for an AI controlled squadmate?  Would AR make them go "Sonic the Hedgehog"?  We already explained how Charge would have been suicide for them.  Cloak is rather useless as they'd simply break it at the first opportunity to shoot.  

So instead, we have squadmates with Drone, a squadmate with Singularity and 3 squadmates with "Tech Armor Sans Bonuses" and Kasumi's Charge/Cloak.  

I don't see the raw deal.  Tali and Legion could never do what an Engineer does.  

[Omega-202]

tangmcgame wrote...

Praetor Shepard wrote...

tonnactus wrote...

It did. It works on the shadowbroker and together with stasis,there is nothing to worry about in that fight.Also,using singularity on mercs when they get in grouped together in the flying platform indeed trivialize fights...

I think slam works well on the SB, also, to lower the shield.

Her Stasis ability will also make him move the shield, so that point is moot.

EVERYTHING makes him move the shield.  Pull makes him move the shield.  Cryo Blast makes him move the shield.  Shooting him with a sniper rifle makes him move the shield.  

I'm pretty sure that if you really reared back and hocked a solid loogey on him it would make him drop the shield.  If you wanted him to drop his shield using Liara, Singularity was the LAST thing you'd want to use on him.  

[tonnactus]

Omega-202 wrote...



 All Singularity and Stasis do versus the Shadow Broker are stun him the same way that Warp, Throw, Incinerate etc. do. 

Nothing that comes even close to the duration those powers worked on him.So i really think you are the one who is kidding here...

Modifié par tonnactus, 20 janvier 2011 - 11:45 .

[Omega-202]

tonnactus wrote...

Omega-202 wrote...


You're kidding right?

 All Singularity and Stasis do versus the Shadow Broker are stun him the same way that Warp, Throw, Incinerate etc. do. 

Nothing that comes even close to the duration those power worked on him.So i really think you are the one whos kidding here...

You're really making yourself look like a grade-A heel at this point.
At least put some effort into your baseless assertions, please.  

Exhibit 1: 

Notice how the Singularity INSTANTLY dissolves once it hits the SB.  It only staggers him once and that's it.  

Exhibit 2: 
Notice how this very intelligent player uses Liara's Warp to stagger him once every ~8 seconds and do some decent damage instead of using Singularity which DOES THE SAME stagger and less damage every 12+ seconds.  

Exhibit 3: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CQZFOIdvO5M&feature=related
Liara's AI uses Singularity a few times in this vid and if you look closely you'd see that each time it simply dissolves once it makes contact with the SB.  

Exhibit 4: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZyfpqIllAlU&feature=related
Liara uses Sing in the opening volley of the battle with the SB...and this time HE DOESN'T EVEN STAGGER!!!!

EDIT: Hell, in that last video, the Shadow Broker STANDS IN a Singularity in the 3rd stage of the fight and doesn't even notice because he's still recovering from another stagger.  By the time he's done staggering, the Singularity is gone.  The player got more staggering out of the Mattock and Reave than he did out of Singularity.

I'll accept your apology when ever you feel like you're ready to admit you're wrong.  

Lets see if someone bucks the trend and actually fesses to being wrong for once.  

Modifié par Omega-202, 21 janvier 2011 - 12:56 .

[ryoldschool]

Omega-202 wrote...

tonnactus wrote...

Omega-202 wrote...


You're kidding right?

 All Singularity and Stasis do versus the Shadow Broker are stun him the same way that Warp, Throw, Incinerate etc. do. 

Nothing that comes even close to the duration those power worked on him.So i really think you are the one whos kidding here...

You're really making yourself look like a grade-A heel at this point.
At least put some effort into your baseless assertions, please.  

Exhibit 1: 

Notice how the Singularity INSTANTLY dissolves once it hits the SB.  It only staggers him once and that's it.  

Exhibit 2: 
Notice how this very intelligent player uses Liara's Warp to stagger him once every ~8 seconds and do some decent damage instead of using Singularity which DOES THE SAME stagger and less damage every 12+ seconds.  

Exhibit 3:http://www.youtube.c...eature=related' class='bbc_url' title='Lien externe' rel='nofollow external'> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CQZFOIdvO5M&feature=related
Liara's AI uses Singularity a few times in this vid and if you look closely you'd see that each time it simply dissolves once it makes contact with the SB.  

Exhibit 4: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZyfpqIllAlU&feature=related
Liara uses Sing in the opening volley of the battle with the SB...and this time HE DOESN'T EVEN STAGGER!!!!

EDIT: Hell, in that last video, the Shadow Broker STANDS IN a Singularity in the 3rd stage of the fight and doesn't even notice because he's still recovering from another stagger.  By the time he's done staggering, the Singularity is gone.  The player got more staggering out of the Mattock and Reave than he did out of Singularity.

I'll accept your apology when ever you feel like you're ready to admit you're wrong.  

Lets see if someone bucks the trend and actually fesses to being wrong for once.  

Omega, the third link does not work for me.  The only thing about these videos is that sinosleep has spoiled us because he always posts the build and the game level.  So I can't tell if these are on insanity or not, and that might make a difference.

I played that mission last night ( insanity ) and singularity will make the broker hunch over and turn his back to you - thats what I always do - give her heavy singularity.

[Omega-202]

ryoldschool wrote...
Omega, the third link does not work for me.  The only thing about these videos is that sinosleep has spoiled us because he always posts the build and the game level.  So I can't tell if these are on insanity or not, and that might make a difference.

I played that mission last night ( insanity ) and singularity will make the broker hunch over and turn his back to you - thats what I always do - give her heavy singularity.

The difficulty has NOTHING to do with the stagger.  

If you watch the videos that do work, you'd see that there are two different stagger animations that cycle.  You get the "hunch and turn" or the "stumble back" at random.  If you watch the 4th video, he gets the "hunch" from using Reave twice and once from just hitting him with the Mattock.  The Infiltrator using he Phalanx also gets the "hunch" from just shooting at him.  

I will repeat, Singularity dissolves instantaneously upon hitting the Shadow Broker.  It does trigger a SINGLE stagger, but that stagger is no different than hitting him with level 1 Throw.  

EDIT: Fixed the third link

Modifié par Omega-202, 21 janvier 2011 - 12:58 .

[tonnactus]

Laughable.This isnt heavy singularity for sure.

[kstarler]

Just to clear this up, I loaded up a level 30 adept with all upgrades, cheated to give myself Heavy everything (Shockwave, Pull, Throw, Singularity, Warp, Stasis) and did the same for Liara. I just tested against the Shadow Broker on Insanity, and I can verify that Singularity does only stagger him once and then dissipate, and all other powers that I tested do the same. Incidentally, all of Shepard's and Liara's other powers did stagger him, provided they hit him and not his shield, so I am guessing that any power that would normally stagger enemies works on him as well.

On a side note, I think comparing Tech Armor to GSB/Barrier/Fortification is a little silly, since the former explodes, throwing/harming enemies AND regenerating shields when it drops, and the latter abilities give only a temporary boost to shields/barriers. Sure, both skill sets give a bonus to survival (and the latter abilities can be quite useful), but Tech Armor also does much more, and only needs to be refreshed if it drops. It's kind of like saying that Energy Drain and Overload are the same. Sure, they both damage shields, but Energy Drain also has the added effect of giving back a portion of shields, which is why so many consider it superior to Overload.

I would also add that, because of the drastic difference in cool down between Shepard's drone and Tali's/Legion's, I don't consider them to be on par with each other. Essentially, Shepard can have a drone out and still do other things, while Tali and Legion can only fire their weapons while they wait for a cool down. With that said, I do understand how some might feel that the engineer was slighted by not having a "truly unique" signature power. While squad mates may have powers that are similar to what the player classes get, none besides Engineer share their signature power in its entirety (and I hasten to add that I don't consider Liara to be a squad mate, since she is only available for a single mission at this point in time, though I acknowledge that she is an exception to this rule).

Modifié par kstarler, 22 janvier 2011 - 02:13 .

[jwalker]

Omega-202 wrote...

[...]

You're kidding right?  All Singularity and Stasis do versus the Shadow Broker are stun him the same way that Warp, Throw, Incinerate etc. do.  Any power that staggers the enemy does the EXACT same thing versus him.  Singularity dissolves instantaneously versus him and only gives you the initial stagger.  There's nothing to worry about in that fight PERIOD.  

[...]

Singularity doesn't dissolve instantaneously  and sometimes Stasis doesn't even stun the fat sucker...

Edit: vid
Heavy singularity

SB boss fight

2:44 stasis
3:45 stasis
4:04 singularity
4:46 singularity
5:00 stasis

Modifié par jwalker, 22 janvier 2011 - 02:50 .

[kstarler]

jwalker wrote...

Singularity doesn't dissolve instantaneously and sometimes Stasis doesn't even stun the fat sucker...

Edit: vid
Heavy singularity

SB boss fight

2:44 stasis
3:45 stasis
4:04 singularity
4:46 singularity
5:00 stasis

This was my experience as well testing this. Unfortunately, my computer is barely able to keep the FPS between 25 and 30 under normal circumstances, so I can't get a decent frame rate while capturing video. Then again, my computer is 6 years old, going on 7, so it's amazing that it still runs anything new at all.

I actually think that Omega-202 is saying this same thing, though the "dissolves instantaneously" is incorrect, as it staggers once, but doesn't dissolve until the second stagger would occur (after the first stagger animation has completed).

[lazuli]

I wonder if there's a difference between xbox and PC on this. Hell, I suppose I should include PS3 on that list now. I'd test on the xbox, but I don't have any Adepts near that point in the game.

[kstarler]

lazuli wrote...

I wonder if there's a difference between xbox and PC on this. Hell, I suppose I should include PS3 on that list now. I'd test on the xbox, but I don't have any Adepts near that point in the game.

This is possible. I know from another thread that Christina Norman said the PC version of the game is intentionally more difficult to compensate for the advantage of using a keyboard and mouse, but I seem to recall this being more in reference to health and defenses being greater on PC than on Xbox, and perhaps Shepards health and defense being less effective. I'll try to find the quote.

EDIT: I'm pretty sure this isn't the quote I was thinking of, but it's the best I could find at present.

Chrstina Norman wrote...

Balancing for pc vs console is incredibly difficult, we do our best (enemies are tougher on pc than on xbox) but pc will always offer more precise controls, and better sequencing of attacks.

Modifié par kstarler, 22 janvier 2011 - 03:55 .

[lazuli]

kstarler wrote...

lazuli wrote...

I wonder if there's a difference between xbox and PC on this. Hell, I suppose I should include PS3 on that list now. I'd test on the xbox, but I don't have any Adepts near that point in the game.

This is possible. I know from another thread that Christina Norman said the PC version of the game is intentionally more difficult to compensate for the advantage of using a keyboard and mouse, but I seem to recall this being more in reference to health and defenses being greater on PC than on Xbox, and perhaps Shepards health and defense being less effective. I'll try to find the quote.

Yeah, I remember that.  I doubt that the platform makes a difference in this case, but I guess it might.  It's just another variable to consider.

[Tony Gunslinger]

kstarler wrote...

lazuli wrote...

I wonder if there's a difference between xbox and PC on this. Hell, I suppose I should include PS3 on that list now. I'd test on the xbox, but I don't have any Adepts near that point in the game.

This is possible. I know from another thread that Christina Norman said the PC version of the game is intentionally more difficult to compensate for the advantage of using a keyboard and mouse, but I seem to recall this being more in reference to health and defenses being greater on PC than on Xbox, and perhaps Shepards health and defense being less effective. I'll try to find the quote.

EDIT: I'm pretty sure this isn't the quote I was thinking of, but it's the best I could find at present.

Chrstina Norman wrote...

Balancing for pc vs console is incredibly difficult, we do our best (enemies are tougher on pc than on xbox) but pc will always offer more precise controls, and better sequencing of attacks.

I really would like to know what tougher means. More health and defenses, less CC duration, faster reactions and aiming, all of the above?

[Omega-202]

lazuli wrote...

I wonder if there's a difference between xbox and PC on this. Hell, I suppose I should include PS3 on that list now. I'd test on the xbox, but I don't have any Adepts near that point in the game.

Its not different.  The SB staggers for the same amount of time and Singularity dissolves just as fast.  I've tried it and I've seen enough YouTube videos of the encounter to know exactly what happens on both platforms.  

Although, I am curious as to what Christina was specifically referring to.  Do PC enemies have more health?  Or is their AI simply sharper?  

kstarler wrote...

I actually think that Omega-202 is saying this same thing, though the "dissolves instantaneously" is incorrect, as it staggers once, but doesn't dissolve until the second stagger would occur (after the first stagger animation has completed).

Exactly what I was trying to say.  Even if it doesn't dissolve "instantly" it still uses all of its charges before it has a chance to proc a second time.  The lifetime of even a MAXED out Heavy Singularity is shorter than the number of frames it takes for the SB to complete his "O I got hit" animation.  

I thought that this was common knowledge for anyone who had actually played the encounter a few times.  But then again, sometimes you get morons who can't admit when they're wrong....(cough)*TonnActus*(cough)

Modifié par Omega-202, 22 janvier 2011 - 06:56 .

[tonnactus]

jwalker wrote...


Singularity doesn't dissolve instantaneously  and sometimes Stasis doesn't even stun the fat sucker...

Because enemies becomes immune to stasis if the player use it too often in a row and the ability is low level(liara has only level one stasis in the vid).

[tonnactus]

Omega-202 wrote...


I thought that this was common knowledge for anyone who had actually played the encounter a few times.  But then again, sometimes you get morons who can't admit when they're wrong....(cough)*TonnActus*(cough)

Morons use insults as arguments...
Right,little boy?

[Omega-202]

tonnactus wrote...

Omega-202 wrote...


I thought that this was common knowledge for anyone who had actually played the encounter a few times.  But then again, sometimes you get morons who can't admit when they're wrong....(cough)*TonnActus*(cough)

Morons use insults as arguments...
Right,little boy?

No morons provide no proof to back up their statements.  

Responsible individuals use evidence in order to support their argument.  I have evidence to prove you're a moron, so I argue such.  I couldn't imagine how what I said could be grating or offensive to you as you should be well aware its true.  

Little boys run cowering and never fess up to breaking the vase.  So tell me, when are you going to grow a pair and admit you're wrong in light of every ounce of proof you've been presented?  Care to start supporting you're argument or are you going to keep playing the "Nuh-uh!!" game?  

[tonnactus]

Omega-202 wrote...
  I couldn't imagine how what I said could be grating or offensive to you as you should be well aware its true.  

I am not offended by weak minded individuals. More amused.

Modifié par tonnactus, 22 janvier 2011 - 11:14 .

[PnXMarcin1PL]

If you want to retrain squad member skills you can do it in game, but only when you have lair of the shadowbroker dlc. If not, you'll have to use gibbed save editor.

[jwalker]

tonnactus wrote...

jwalker wrote...


Singularity doesn't dissolve instantaneously  and sometimes Stasis doesn't even stun the fat sucker...

Because enemies becomes immune to stasis if the player use it too often in a row and the ability is low level(liara has only level one stasis in the vid).

Yes, but I don't think that's reason.
The SB doesn't get in "stasis status", otherwise he should have fell to the ground.
The resistance targets get is in regard to Stasis duration, but they always fall.
In my vid at least, I think it has to do with the fact that SB was still stunned by the drone's attack and the animations dont "stack up"

[Bozorgmehr]

tonnactus wrote...

Because enemies becomes immune to stasis if the player use it too often in a row and the ability is low level(liara has only level one stasis in the vid).

Stasis' level is irrelevant; rank 1 Stasis works exactly like rank 4 Stasis. The only thing that changes is duration. Enhanced Stasis reduces immunity; rank 1 and Deep Stasis can only be used 3 times on a YMIR before it gets immune, at that point Stasis only staggers YMIR. Enhanced Stasis can be used a couple times more before becoming redundant.

Stasis and Singularity don't work versus Shadow Broker - Omega-202 is right.

[tangmcgame]

tonnactus wrote...

Omega-202 wrote...


I thought that this was common knowledge for anyone who had actually played the encounter a few times.  But then again, sometimes you get morons who can't admit when they're wrong....(cough)*TonnActus*(cough)

Morons use insults as arguments...
Right,little boy?

Irony is ironic.

Boz: I think they knew the powers didn't work versus the Broker, but they cause him to stagger and lift his shield.  They were "discussing" whether or not Singularity would cause the shield-lift animation more than once.  Apparently, no matter if it is Heavy or not, it doesn't.

Modifié par tangmcgame, 23 janvier 2011 - 03:48 .

[tonnactus]

Bozorgmehr wrote...

Stasis and Singularity don't work versus Shadow Broker -

We have different opinions of the word "work".Stasis works long enough to allows me repositioning comfortable without taking bullets.Heavy singularity let him "dance around" for like 2-3 seconds.