73 réponses à ce sujet

[uzivatel]

Probably ME1. Being fewer of them helped.

[Ulzeraj]

That poll makes no sense. BG2 characters are far more interesting than NWN or Mass Effect 1 and 2 and probably 3. This is absurd... remember Minsc, Keldorn, Viconia, Jan Jansen, Ano the Orc and Edwin! The only possible explanation is that most of the voters never played BG2. And pff the only interesting characters of NWN are Linu and Deekin.



Both games have interesting characters. Some are better on ME1 some are not.

[Felfenix]

Ulzeraj wrote...

That poll makes no sense. BG2 characters are far more interesting than NWN or Mass Effect 1 and 2 and probably 3. This is absurd... remember Minsc, Keldorn, Viconia, Jan Jansen, Ano the Orc and Edwin! The only possible explanation is that most of the voters never played BG2. And pff the only interesting characters of NWN are Linu and Deekin.

Both games have interesting characters. Some are better on ME1 some are not.

The poll is asking which game has the most boring party, so it's actually in BG's favor since it has the fewest votes. The poll is written awkardly, so you probably didn't catch it. It says in parenthesis though: (or which ones were the most boring in your opinion)

[DarthCaine]

It helps to actually READ the description instead of rushing to vote. From the comments lots of people made that mistake.

Gleym wrote...

Then why does the poll say those bland, uninteresting party members from NWN are the worst?

Do I have to write IMO on every single sentence? Either way, I shouldn't have put the NwN characters there since I don't consider them true party members (just henchmen that help you out in combat)

Ulzeraj wrote...

The only possible explanation is that most of the voters never played BG2.

Riiight, the only possible explanation for someone to have a different opinion than you...

Modifié par DarthCaine, 19 janvier 2011 - 03:58 .

[Phaedon]

Bioware failed at making interesting squadmates in ME1. Two marines with no personality of their own, a random C-Sec officer, Wikip-umm a random Quarian. And the funny thing is that the archaelogist and the mercenary were the only good ones.



And what is this about more banter in ME1? ME2 had more squadmates and MORE banter for crying it outloud!

[DarthCaine]

Wrex was just a very bland version of Canderous Ordo. Garrus is Batman, he's the only one I liked

Modifié par DarthCaine, 19 janvier 2011 - 04:15 .

[Phaedon]

DarthCaine wrote...

Wrex was just a very bland version of Canderous Ordo. Garrus is Batman, he's the only one I liked

Garrus? The cop that gets a single cutscene and an action scene and is not relevant to the story/bland for the rest of the game?

Modifié par Phaedon, 19 janvier 2011 - 04:14 .

[Ulzeraj]

Felfenix wrote...

Ulzeraj wrote...

That poll makes no sense. BG2 characters are far more interesting than NWN or Mass Effect 1 and 2 and probably 3. This is absurd... remember Minsc, Keldorn, Viconia, Jan Jansen, Ano the Orc and Edwin! The only possible explanation is that most of the voters never played BG2. And pff the only interesting characters of NWN are Linu and Deekin.

Both games have interesting characters. Some are better on ME1 some are not.

The poll is asking which game has the most boring party, so it's actually in BG's favor since it has the fewest votes. The poll is written awkardly, so you probably didn't catch it. It says in parenthesis though: (or which ones were the most boring in your opinion)

Thank you I was blinded by rage.

DarthCaine wrote...

It helps to actually READ the description instead of rushing to vote. From the comments lots of people made that mistake.

Gleym wrote...

Then why does the poll say those bland, uninteresting party members from NWN are the worst?

Do
I have to write IMO on every single sentence? Either way, I shouldn't
have put the NwN characters there since I don't consider them true party
members (just henchmen that help you out in combat)

Ulzeraj wrote...

The only possible explanation is that most of the voters never played BG2.

Riiight, the only possible explanation for someone to have a different opinion than you...

Its not subjective. Its a fact. People who don't agree tends to... disappear... into the night.

[darknoon5]

ME2's squad is waaaaay more interesting.



The ME1 squad isn't bad, but Tali's just an encyclopedia, and Ashley and Kaidan are a bit...boring compared to the others, though Kaidan has an interesting back story.

Also, the only ME1 squadmate who even really had unique lines in the missions was Wrex.



But my favorite squadmates are Garrus, Wrex, Tali, (much more in ME2) Legion, Liara and Mordin.

[VampireCommando]

I agree I felt rather close to all of my old crew bar Tali (equips flame shield) and there was so much more dialogue with each member in number 1, hover that said I did become close to some of the characters in ME2 I mean I was already close to Garrus, he's like my Sheps best friend but a suprise for me was Tali, I think her being in the first game like Garrus meant that I could straight away trust her no questions asked, not to mention. Her loyalty mission, it was heart breaking.



But the new characters I felt close to were Jacob, Miri, and maybe a little for legion. Now I felt close to Jacob because he was the kinda nice guy that was trustworthy and reliable, someone that I felt; I could easily be friends with this kinda guy in real life, it was like that, not to mention the epic bro hug with Shepard, instant +10 in my books. Then there's Miri, or Miranda, which ever you prefer. I felt close to her after her personal quest, at the start I just thought like Jack did, shes a Cerberus **** with some nice looks, yeah I was thankful that she spent 2 years of her life bringing me back but it was her morals that I disagreed with. through the first conversations with her I just though; pfft Cerberus poster girl sticking up for them when and where ever, but all that started to change after her personal quest and towards the game end. After her quest she started to open up as a human being, not just some genetically engineered super ****, I felt that she was someone my Shep could connect to, then towards the end of the game you start to see her morals change, she starts to seconds guess everything about Cerberus and some but nit all of there ideals. Then at the games end if you take her with you to the human reaper thing, she soon tells the illusive man where to stick it.

[Element Engine]

Definitely the ME2 crew. Even the returning characters were way better in 2.

[Felfenix]

Phaedon wrote...

Bioware failed at making interesting squadmates in ME1. Two marines with no personality of their own, a random C-Sec officer, Wikip-umm a random Quarian. And the funny thing is that the archaelogist and the mercenary were the only good ones.

And what is this about more banter in ME1? ME2 had more squadmates and MORE banter for crying it outloud!

It's true that there is more conversation dialog on the ship, there is almost no banter between squadmembers and not a lot of specific character dialog outside of the ship and the character's personal mission. When people say banter, they typically mean the convos from one NPC party member to another, like DAO or the elevators in ME1.

I think another problem with ME2 was... since you were recruiting characters until the very end, meaning you could have or not have just about any combination of squadmates for most of the game, it limited what the developers were able/willing to do with the characters. How much can they integrade Garrus or Thane into anything other than their own missions, considering you may not have them in your party? Not only that, but there were a lot of characters. It sounds terrible to basically say that non-linearity hurt the game but it presented a lot of variables, and we've seen how Bioware deals with variables. They're resistant to putting a lot into content that may not be experienced by most players.

Modifié par Felfenix, 19 janvier 2011 - 05:45 .

[JaegerBane]

Frankly I consider this an odd question, as the ME2 crew was made up of elements of the ME1 crew with the exception of 4 characters (one of which died).

All things considered I think I preferred the ME2 crew, though not in their entirety. I really liked Miranda, Thane and Samara - I thought they were brilliant characters of archetypes that were not really represented in ME1. I still kinda wish we got Liara and the Virmire survivor as squadmates, though. Jacob suffered from Carth Onasi syndrome and had some plain weird lines ('...the PRIIIIZE.....', his bizarre reaction to Thane's occupation given what he does for a living etc) but ultimately, I found him to be a useful and likeable character who was a lot deeper than I gave him credit for. Mordin was just brilliant, no more needs to be said.

Subject Zero was a character that was just plain annoying if you didn't romance her (which my biotic Shepard rarely does) - it would have been great to tease out that character development without needing to bone her.

Legion was an otherwise brilliant character that was introduced far, far, far too late in the quest.

Kasumi and Zaeed were good, but their conversation system was badly implemented and they didn't feel like members of your crew.

Grunt was a cracking character, much better that I thought he'd be, but as the only krogan on your squad, he drew inevitable comparisons to Wrex, who's gone down in history as one of the best RPG squadmates ever made, so to a certain extent Grunt wasn't given a fair chance. He's great - just not as good as Wrex.

Modifié par JaegerBane, 19 janvier 2011 - 06:02 .

[PD ORTA]

ME2 for me.

I found ME1's squad boring, it was a chore to talk to anyone other than my chosen LI. I didn't even like Tali and Garrus in ME1, but that changed in ME2 as they became much more interesting characters.

[TheImmortalBeaver]

While I enjoyed Garrus, Tali and Wrex from ME1 I found Ashley, Kaiden and Liara to be somewhat bland. While I liked that Bioware made Ashley religious without making her into a freakin' nutbag, her personality was classic militaristic gun girl. Meh.



On the other hand, I loved having conversations with every single one of my squad members in ME2. So... yeah.

[Da_Lion_Man]

I prefer ME1 but I have to give this to ME2. Crew was very well done if you ask me.



ME1 crew was good too, down-to-earth and I like that.

[Phaedon]

Felfenix wrote...
It's true that there is more conversation dialog on the ship, there is almost no banter between squadmembers and not a lot of specific character dialog outside of the ship and the character's personal mission. When people say banter, they typically mean the convos from one NPC party member to another, like DAO or the elevators in ME1.

Mass Effect (the original) had no more than 2-4 'comments' per mission, and even those had to trigerred manually.

[Mike2640]

I'd have to say Mass Effect 1 for me. While I enjoyed talking to the ME2 squad, especially Jack, they didn't seem nearly as involved in the story as the crew of the first game. They were all way too sequestered in their own corners. It didn't help that their conversations were often way too brief (Garrus's lack of communication was especially noticeable). Even if there were just as many dialogues in Mass Effect 1 as Phaedon says, they seemed longer, and felt more natural. Like how a conversation with Garrus could start with him asking Shepard what his plan was when they confront Sarren, which then naturally segued into a discussion of his time with C-Sec. In Mass Effect 2, pretty much every conversation starts out with "Tell me about your issues."

I've noticed a lot of people mention that the characters were more developed in ME2 than ME1, but I have to disagree there. There was more time devoted to their origins, certainly, but that isn't the same as development. That's just establishing who the character is. When it comes to actual development, seeing the characters change and grow, Mass Effect 2 actually has very little of that. Yes you have the option to change their perspectives at the end of the loyalty missions, but nothing is done with that. You make the choice, then later on the ship they say "Thanks Shepard, I'm glad you helped me do [X].". This character change is then never mentioned or noticed again in the entire game. What should be the beginning of real development is the literal end of development.

I remember in Knights of the Old Republic II, you could influence your party members towards the light or dark side of the Force. After a certain amount of influence their interactions would change slightly to reflect this, such as a character agreeing with your decision to kill a man while his back is turned, or commending you for sparing someone's life. Even in Mass Effect 1 you could convince Ashley that the Council might be worth trusting, or convince Kaidan that aliens should not be trusted, and this would be seen in certain dialogues. That is character development.

Modifié par Mike2640, 19 janvier 2011 - 07:03 .

[Phaedon]

I remember in Knights of the Old Republic II, you could influence your party members towards the light or dark side of the Force. After a certain amount of influence their interactions would change slightly to reflect this, such as a character agreeing with your decision to kill a man while his back is turned, or commending you for sparing someone's life. Even in Mass Effect 1 you could convince Ashley that the Council might be worth trusting, or convince Kaidan that aliens should not be trusted, and this would be seen in certain dialogues. That is character development.

That's not really character development, just an interesting twist to it. It wasn't done well in ME, though, imo always.

[Mike2640]

Phaedon wrote...

I remember in Knights of the Old Republic II, you could influence your party members towards the light or dark side of the Force. After a certain amount of influence their interactions would change slightly to reflect this, such as a character agreeing with your decision to kill a man while his back is turned, or commending you for sparing someone's life. Even in Mass Effect 1 you could convince Ashley that the Council might be worth trusting, or convince Kaidan that aliens should not be trusted, and this would be seen in certain dialogues. That is character development.

That's not really character development, just an interesting twist to it. It wasn't done well in ME, though, imo always.

Admittedly I was looking for examples from video games, RPGs specifically, but the point behind it is solid. Character development, to me anyway, is how the character takes the struggles and lessons learned throughout the story and grows into a (ideally) better person. My favorite example of this is from the show Angel, and how Cordelia Chase turned from a bratty would-be actress into a strong, selfless woman devoted to helping people. What we saw in Mass Effect 2 was backstory. Very good backstory, but not development.

And I agree that it wasn't done particularly well in Mass Effect either, but I still feel it was more present there than in the sequel.

[Ulzeraj]

Phaedon wrote...

I remember in Knights of the Old Republic II, you could influence your party members towards the light or dark side of the Force. After a certain amount of influence their interactions would change slightly to reflect this, such as a character agreeing with your decision to kill a man while his back is turned, or commending you for sparing someone's life. Even in Mass Effect 1 you could convince Ashley that the Council might be worth trusting, or convince Kaidan that aliens should not be trusted, and this would be seen in certain dialogues. That is character development.

That's not really character development, just an interesting twist to it. It wasn't done well in ME, though, imo always.

The idea is cool as long as it doesn't involve some stat (NWN2 influence, DA:O approval) and can be circunvented with silly gifts. Again with BG2, Anomen was a lawful neutral character that could become neutral evil or lawful good depending on your actions. Sarevok (chaotic evil) and Viconia (neutral evil) could also become chaotic good. This was a veeery long process that didn't rely on silly influence stats.

[TomY90]

It is weird I fell the Mass Effect 1 characters melded together better than ME2 but I do think the characters are alot better in ME2 because of there plots being more unique and you feel there is still further development can happen with them.



Wheras ME1 characters do feel like they reached there limits in ways especially garrus

[Uszi]

DarkLord_PT wrote...

I'm inclined to agree, but I'm probably biased since I don't know just how rose my glasses are actually tinted.

Things were better in the old days, definitely.
Now get off my lawn you damn kids.

[Slavka13748]

I definitely connected with the ME1 crew more. They just felt more 'real', I guess. In ME2, everyone was tucked away in their designated corner and, whilst some characters rank among my favourites (Mordin and Legion), I didn't really feel any connection to the others. It seemed more like I was 'collecting' a team of crazies rather than recruiting them, if you get my drift.