151 réponses à ce sujet

[The Smoking Man]

Even so, as the supervisor of all the writing that goes down, he should know what he's supervising.

[Vaenier]

Hope for the best, prepare yourself to receive the worst. This way you can not be dissapointed, and could even be surprised how amazing the game will be, thus increasing enjoyment.

[didymos1120]

The Smoking Man wrote...

Even so, as the supervisor of all the writing that goes down, he should know what he's supervising.

I'm not sure what exactly you're getting at.  I mean, I don't exactly see how the adminstrative side of the job changes the fact that the lead writer isn't some guy who just goes off, comes up with a plot and some characters, and tells everybody to "make it so".  

[Icinix]

Because it does feel in an attempt to cash in on the success / interest Mass Effect has developed the...quality and attention to detail has been put behind quantity at this stage.



Don't get me wrong, love Mass Effect and think ME3 will be bloody awesome, but the comic stories, the last novel, ps3 start comic, the leanings of ME2 etc the general direction seems to be missing details and has inconsistencies. I'd be lying if I said I wasn't feeling a little apprehensive.

[Star]

didymos1120 wrote...

No single person is responsible for the writing in ANY of the ME games.  Not even for the basic plot. Definitely not at all true when it comes to creating characters.  There just plain is no "main" writer.  Not Drew Karpyshyn on ME1, and not Mac Walters on ME2 and ME3.  It's certainly very convenient to ascribe credit and/or blame to one guy, but that's all it is: convenient.  The facts are very different.

True that no one person makes or breaks a game and yes, negative thinking tends to grow like mushrooms on forum boards as we all feed off each other.  Still,  I suspect the fan negativity has more to do with the general change in corporate attitudes over the past few years.  As BW staff's regular discussion/involvement with players has decreased, their attitude seems to have increasingly shifted towards one of *lalala we can't/don't want to hear you but as long as you'll buy whatever we put out we're happy to ignore you and take your money* 

Of course the above isn't quite true of every individual at BW.  But the overall corporate attitude -- whether stemming from EA or BW or both seems to be that way.

[Encarmine]

Well its an interesting point Didy, and i respect your opinions on most matters, but you cannot deny, this is a tale heard many times in the gaming world, the 'team' gets changed, in some way, in turn, the game itself reflects that change.



With your logic, one could argue any given member of a team of writers can be moved and replaced and still you get the same product at the other end? Is that really possible? With that change, you get new ideas, or ideas tried that would of met objection from the previous member, new directions.



I respectfully disagree, his position was a choke point in the process, change that person, and you potentially change the essence of the whole thing. Its not like were talking about a cog in the machine here, this is one of the gears were talking about, he directed the writing team, which has ALLOT to do with how we experiance the end product.



Star 58, your comment about less interaction is partly down to new social mediums, they prefer to preech to us via twitter these days than face the flame thread of old, or if were really lucky we get a blog. Besides, they get all the feedback they want from the cerberus network sending back pages of stats on how we play ME2. Hence in genisis, they clearly know from stats Liara is the most popular LI.



I dont blame bioware, its just sad to see EA throwing another lamb on the alter of the MMO war it cannot win.

[Aurica]

Slidell505 wrote...

kill_switch_423 wrote...

People don't like being disappointed. Low expectations = less chance for disappointment.

Yeah, this. It's pretty much how I approach life.

Me three... I have very little issues with ME2....  Either I'm not a very demanding customer who doesn't really know what she wants or I'm easily satisfied with most things

[didymos1120]

Encarmine wrote...
With your logic, one could argue any given member of a team of writers can be moved and replaced and still you get the same product at the other end? Is that really possible? With that change, you get new ideas, or ideas tried that would of met objection from the previous member, new directions.

Did I say anything remotely like that? No, I did not. I made a simple statement of fact, backed up by a source: neither Drew nor Mac can be called the "main" writer.   That's just plain not the job. No such thing exists for the ME games. I mean, they don't even get to decide what the plot of the game is on their own.  Read the interview: the story is drafted by the Producer, Designer, and the Lead Writer, and then it gets redrafted who knows how many times after the entire writing team is consulted.  Yes, the lead writer is important, and of course a different guy will come up with different ideas,  but the position is nowhere near as all-important as people like to believe. 

[The Smoking Man]

didymos1120 wrote...

The Smoking Man wrote...

Even so, as the supervisor of all the writing that goes down, he should know what he's supervising.

I'm not sure what exactly you're getting at.  I mean, I don't exactly see how the adminstrative side of the job changes the fact that the lead writer isn't some guy who just goes off, comes up with a plot and some characters, and tells everybody to "make it so".  

The Interactive Backstory Comic, which was written by Mac Walters, shows that he doesn't really seem to know what's going on with the story. Even if it weren't the case that he wrote the comic's narrative, as a supervisor, he should've reviewed it and caught the errors in it. If he can't do one or the other of those things, does that make him a competent Lead Writer/Writing Supervisor?

[Star]

Encarmine wrote...

Star 58, your comment about less interaction is partly down to new social mediums, they prefer to preech to us via twitter these days than face the flame thread of old, or if were really lucky we get a blog. Besides, they get all the feedback they want from the cerberus network sending back pages of stats on how we play ME2. Hence in genisis, they clearly know from stats Liara is the most popular LI.

I dont blame bioware, its just sad to see EA throwing another lamb on the alter of the MMO war it cannot win.

Yea, I have to agree that there are many new and less personal ways to talk at the fans these days.  After all, it's much easier to tweet or collect "data" than to actually converse.  After all, conversation might require some form of personal responsibility.  lol!

I don't entirely blame EA.  One can point fingers at them certainly but truly there are choices.  I think BW has to take some responsibility for the changes.  For example with DA2 -there are concerns but one thing I do notice is that the writers still show up on the forums from time to time, do converse, do seem to pay attention to what's being said. ME's team seems to have chosen to hide behind the corporate walls...or the prevailing social media.

[Tasker]

The Smoking Man wrote...

didymos1120 wrote...

The Smoking Man wrote...

Even so, as the supervisor of all the writing that goes down, he should know what he's supervising.

I'm not sure what exactly you're getting at.  I mean, I don't exactly see how the adminstrative side of the job changes the fact that the lead writer isn't some guy who just goes off, comes up with a plot and some characters, and tells everybody to "make it so".  

The Interactive Backstory Comic, which was written by Mac Walters, shows that he doesn't really seem to know what's going on with the story. Even if it weren't the case that he wrote the comic's narrative, as a supervisor, he should've reviewed it and caught the errors in it. If he can't do one or the other of those things, does that make him a competent Lead Writer/Writing Supervisor?

To be honest, it's as if he wrote  ME2 and the comics after somebody telling him the plot to the first game verbally over a pint in the pub.

I get the impression that he hasn't even played the first game or looked at any of the written documentation on it.

Modifié par Orkboy, 19 janvier 2011 - 03:54 .

[Encarmine]

didymos1120 wrote...



*sigh* People just keep insisting on this notion that "Lead writer" means "person who decides most everything about dialogue and characters and plot". That's NOT how it works. Yeah do they write stuff themselves, but it's a largely supervisory position. They coordinate the writing TEAM. The games are not written like a novel or a typical screenplay. :



No single person is responsible for the writing in ANY of the ME games. Not even for the basic plot. Definitely not at all true when it comes to creating characters. There just plain is no "main" writer. Not Drew Karpyshyn on ME1, and not Mac Walters on ME2 and ME3. It's certainly very convenient to ascribe credit and/or blame to one guy, but that's all it is: convenient. The facts are very different.

I took this comment from you to mean its a largely team effort, and that it goes through serious vetting, so i was assuming (wrongly it seems) that your view was a single person leaving the project to work on another project wouldnt have a potentially negative effect on the end product. I was disagreeing with that view, by saying, changing the creative team, and moving senior writers away can change the finished product. And being a 'glass is half empty' kinda guy at 2.20 am in the morning, im worried it is for the worse, and after seeing Genesis stills, and reading about the overall thing, its a letdown, a trend I hope doesnt continue.



Basicly, I am dissapointed in this comic filler, and then i read about a change in the writing team for ME and i just started getting the same vibe I have seen befor, hearing about key members of teams being moved into a 'new exciting MMO' and then all else takes a back seat while they go splat on WoWs windscreen.

[Torchic]

so what do the writers need to do in ME3?
They have continue from ME2
Provide new info on the reapers (going off most of the info from ME1 seeing you don't learn that much in ME2)
Find a way to stop the reapers eg. shot them with a BFG
Convince every species to help (most likely)
Save Earth before its to late
And god smite them not make to make it the best rpg in history as the prequels have set it up for another epic show down and RACE AGAINST TIME but this time it could actually feel like it is a race
so we assume an average but expect the best

Modifié par Torchic, 19 janvier 2011 - 04:04 .

[Encarmine]

Star58 wrote...
 For example with DA2 -there are concerns but one thing I do notice is that the writers still show up on the forums from time to time, do converse, do seem to pay attention to what's being said. ME's team seems to have chosen to hide behind the corporate walls...or the prevailing social media.

Will be interesting to see if that continues once the game has released,

[Diokletian600]

Assuming the worst is perfectly logical. Assume the worst and be prepared for it, and if it comes to pass you will not be disappointed and if it does not, you can rejoice at your fears being completely unfounded and without basis.

[Fiery Phoenix]

Star58 wrote...

 For example with DA2 -there are concerns but one thing I do notice is that the writers still show up on the forums from time to time, do converse, do seem to pay attention to what's being said. ME's team seems to have chosen to hide behind the corporate walls...or the prevailing social media.

Not exactly from time to time, though; David Gaider, the lead writer of the DA franchise, posts literally every day. "Literally," I said. Every single day. Try frequenting the DA2 forum and it's immediately noticeable.

The ME writers not only don't bother posting, but they don't even have their own accounts here, except for a few of them. I know they're not obligated to post on the forums, but considering what happens in the DA sections, it feels unfair.

Most of the BioWare staff who do post on the ME forums are either programmers or directors and coordinators; in other words, they have nothing to do with the story and characters of the series, which is what we seek.

Modifié par Fiery Phoenix, 19 janvier 2011 - 04:07 .

[Star]

Fiery Phoenix wrote...

Star58 wrote...

 For example with DA2 -there are concerns but one thing I do notice is that the writers still show up on the forums from time to time, do converse, do seem to pay attention to what's being said. ME's team seems to have chosen to hide behind the corporate walls...or the prevailing social media.

Not exactly from time to time, though; David Gaider, the lead writer of the DA franchise, posts literally every day. "Literally," I said. Every single day. Try frequenting the DA2 forum and it's immediately noticeable.

The ME writers not only don't bother posting, but they don't even have their own accounts here, except for a few of them. I know they're not obligated to post on the forums, but considering what happens in the DA sections, it feels unfair.

Most of the BioWare staff who do post on the ME forums are either programmers or directors and coordinators; in other words, they have nothing to do with the story and characters of the series, which is what we seek.

I don't spend tons of time on the DA or any forum its true so I haven't seen Gaider as frequently. Still I'm not at all surprised given how he used to spend time not only on BW's forums but on other fan websites like Lady Shayna's Ladies of Neverwinter or Gamejag's The Attic (there was also a KoTOR one but I don't quite remember it's name) talking with fans and sharing fic.  *sigh*  I miss that.

[sirandar]

I too am very worried about ME3.Plotwise it seems that the writers have backed themselves into a corner
ME2 was a great game but the direction wasnt what I was hoping for

The ME3 trailers have only increased my concern, but the ME2 trailers were even worse and the game came out OK
i cant help feel ME2 was a missed opportunity to make the best game ever.  I feel that ME3 has little chance of being better than ME2 if you want more than shooting
It is sad that Drew has left the project.  I had the impression while playing ME1 2 that there were two creative forces shaping ME 1 and 2, one I loved and one I disliked.  If the one I disliked is left, I am pretty sure I will not like ME3.  Maybe Drew left because he was ignored and unhappy about where things went.  We will never know because his DA would forbid talking about it

Modifié par sirandar, 19 janvier 2011 - 05:20 .

[RVallant]

sirandar wrote...

I too am very worried about ME3.Plotwise it seems that the writers have backed themselves into a corner
ME2 was a great game but the direction wasnt what I was hoping for

Natural feeling though isn't it? Especially with trilogies, if the first is epic or got you interested you're already thinking ahead to the second and third. Dashed expectations tend to be when the storywriters don't think along the lines of the player which, is nearly all the time.

[Bourne Endeavor]

It is logical to make assumptions based upon what is provided. The plot of ME2 was devoid of any coherent direction, has more holes than swiss cheese and did virtually nothing to incorporate what had been established in the predecessor. Instead the story was either streamlined or retconned into a typical over the top adventure that is found in the majority of shooters. What I found most irksome, is despite the egregious lack of consistency, the main plot does have potential.



Nonetheless, that potential partially lost and people are not convinced the retconning will not continue. The comic may have done so already.



Excluding the writing, there remains two other discussions that have no viable answer, and thus have people nervous. Multiplayer and what is to become of our squad. The former stems from a market that is vastly oversaturated with online cover shooters and the usually weak plot that accompanies them. Nevermind the short length. The latter is people using ME's as a basis for what became of possibly dead characters. They were given quick cameos and in the case of the VS; never seen again. Now the entire cast is expendable.



This combination of uncertainties leads many to presume at the end of the tunnel. There will be a cloudy forecast. Whether this derives from pessimism, intentionally lowered expectations or a loss of faith in BioWare is subjective. When people lack information, they make assumptions.

[darknoon5]

I agree with didymos' post, instead of the rest of this trash.

[JaegerBane]

RVallant wrote...


Is Genesis the ps3 comic? Cos I'm not too sure what the problem is? >.>

This.

[Nightwriter]

How interesting this all is. I think I'll just watch.