151 réponses à ce sujet

[Fiery Phoenix]

I want to believe they will return once more ME3 stuff has poured in. For DA2, they didn't show up until the DA2 board was created. They've been posting on there ever since.

[Phaedon]

Fiery Phoenix wrote...

I want to believe they will return once more ME3 stuff has poured in. For DA2, they didn't show up until the DA2 board was created. They've been posting on there ever since.

I didn't know that, thanks for sharing. 

[Ryzaki]

No offense but I think so of the ME3 devs want to delude themselves about some of the flaws of the game. Like the planet scanning was enjoyed by a large amount of people without acknowledging the complaints.

[Nightwriter]

AwesomeName wrote...

I know this sounds bizarre, but when a game is REALLY good, it's almost impossible not to criticize it. I'm not sure if that makes a whole lot a sense, but I hope the devs see that? Although I agree, there are some criticisms that don't  have a reason to them - I hope I'm not one of them..

It's not the game that suffers from being too good - it's BioWare. They have proven to us that they are quality developers. They seem to raise the bar with every game they put out.

They give us superb story in KOTOR, we want superb story in every other game.

They give us superb party banter in DA:O, we want superb party banter in every other game.

They gave us superb combat in ME2, we'll want superb combat in every other game.

[Zeke01231]

I love this series and have multiple playthroughs in both games but the EA taint is in ME2 you can see it...the only that EA does well making games is polish..I like polish but not at the price of depth..To this day Superpunchout has more depth than Fightnight and Madden can't hold a candle to Sonys old football franchise but man it sure is polished! I wouldn't but an EA game for 5 bucks before they purchased Bioware now I have to because I've been buying Boiware products and enjoying them almost exclusively in my twilight gaming days.



So yes I am a little worried now that the two have been in bed long enough to royal screw the pooch.

[Phaedon]

Zeke01231 wrote...

I love this series and have multiple playthroughs in both games but the EA taint is in ME2 you can see it...the only that EA does well making games is polish..I like polish but not at the price of depth..To this day Superpunchout has more depth than Fightnight and Madden can't hold a candle to Sonys old football franchise but man it sure is polished! I wouldn't but an EA game for 5 bucks before they purchased Bioware now I have to because I've been buying Boiware products and enjoying them almost exclusively in my twilight gaming days.

So yes I am a little worried now that the two have been in bed long enough to royal screw the pooch.

EA publishes the game, they have nothing else to do with it.

[Count Viceroy]

Nightwriter wrote...

They give us superb story in KOTOR, we want superb story in every other game.

They give us superb party banter in DA:O, we want superb party banter in every other game.

They gave us superb combat in ME2, we'll want superb combat in every other game.

They still have a limited budget, for every step forward, there's always loads of features that are either reduced or cut entierly as a result.

[Bourne Endeavor]

Fredvdp wrote...

I know Patrick Weekes reads the threads but doesn't like to post when people are being mean about his colleagues. That's about every thread about the Mass Effect storyline.

Essentially, he only wants to hear praise and celebration for his work and hides the moment there is criticism? Please tell me he did not say "because people are mean" as that is child's mentality. I wholly understand BioWare's staff not desiring to be apart of the whining threads, however there exists constructive criticism in abundance on this forum. Regardless, I am not concerned with BioWare not posting. Few devs actually do. That does not mean I shall refrain from voicing my opinion.

Phaedon wrote...

Before everyone starts posting 'Deal w/ it' learn that non-constructive criticism on a work of art on which you spend a lot of time and love on hurts.

Undeniably, and I have been on the receiving end of harsh criticism. It is both unpleasant and understandingly anger educing at times, especially if you perceive it unwarranted. That said, it is the nature of publicized media. A good story has been proof read innumerable times and likely had one or two sections torn to shreds for one reason or another. If it is constructive, it poses merit. BioWare expects our money, therefore we have the right to voice our opinions.

Phaedon wrote...

I am pretty sure that most of the vocal people that criticize ME2 on these boards really hated it.

I am likely one of the most vocal members in debates regarding dissatisfaction with the main plot. In spite of my criticism, I thoroughly enjoy the game and have completed it multiple times. People are capable of criticizing something they fancy. In actuality, those are the most objective opinions available and are of far greater use. They love the series enough to want it to aspire to being the best in existence. Unbridled praise, amounts to nothing constructive.

Modifié par Bourne Endeavor, 19 janvier 2011 - 07:40 .

[Anacronian Stryx]

AwesomeName wrote...

@Nightwriter: I'm not saying that the game suffers - I think ME1 and 2 are excellent - I'm simply saying that lots of criticism can actually be a positive sign that the game is really good. You tend to notice the flaws more if you're really into the game.

Though I do understand what you're saying.

It's the simple desire to take something you think is good and try to sculpt it into something you feel would be perfection.

[Phaedon]

Nightwriter wrote...
It's not the game that suffers from being too good - it's BioWare. They have proven to us that they are quality developers. They seem to raise the bar with every game they put out.

They give us superb story in KOTOR, we want superb story in every other game.

They give us superb party banter in DA:O, we want superb party banter in every other game.

They gave us superb combat in ME2, we'll want superb combat in every other game.

This is incredibly accurate.

[Phaedon]

Bourne Endeavor wrote...
Undeniably, and I have been on the receiving end of harsh criticism. It is both unpleasant and understandingly anger educing at times, especially if you perceive it unwarranted. That said, it is the nature of publicized media. A good story has been proof read innumerable times and like had one or two sections torn to shreds for one reason or another. If it is constructive, it poses merit. BioWare expects our money, therefore we have the right to voice our opinions.

Of course. There's even a feedback thread for the PS3 version now. I just can't think of any pre-release criticism that could have been constructive. But that's not the dev staff's job really, they don't get paid to browse the forums. It's probably the marketing staff that writes everything down and give it to them.

Phaedon wrote...
I am likely one of the most vocal members in debates regarding dissatisfaction with the main plot. In spite of my criticism, I thoroughly enjoy the game and have completed it multiple times. People are capable of criticizing something they fancy. In actuality, those are the most objective opinions available and of far greater use. They love the series enough to want it to aspire to being the best in existence. Unbridled praise, amounts to nothing constructive.

I wouldn't call you vocal.

[Fixers0]

Phaedon wrote...

Bourne Endeavor wrote...
Undeniably, and I have been on the receiving end of harsh criticism. It is both unpleasant and understandingly anger educing at times, especially if you perceive it unwarranted. That said, it is the nature of publicized media. A good story has been proof read innumerable times and like had one or two sections torn to shreds for one reason or another. If it is constructive, it poses merit. BioWare expects our money, therefore we have the right to voice our opinions.

Of course. There's even a feedback thread for the PS3 version now. I just can't think of any pre-release criticism that could have been constructive. But that's not the dev staff's job really, they don't get paid to browse the forums. It's probably the marketing staff that writes everything down and give it to them.

Phaedon wrote...
I am likely one of the most vocal members in debates regarding dissatisfaction with the main plot. In spite of my criticism, I thoroughly enjoy the game and have completed it multiple times. People are capable of criticizing something they fancy. In actuality, those are the most objective opinions available and of far greater use. They love the series enough to want it to aspire to being the best in existence. Unbridled praise, amounts to nothing constructive.

I wouldn't call you vocal.

You wrote it.

[Burdokva]

Eh, I find these forum quite moderate in fact. At least the spoiler sections, where the more dedicated players/fans post. I'm certain that even gameplay discussion would be more civil in this section (and yes, I know - it's still the Internet, it's bound to have idiots who can't argue in a civil manner).

Honestly, I am pretty skeptic for Mass Effect 2. I was very disappointed overall by Mass Effect 2 and I had huge expectations for it, probably more than any other game. And it wasn't so much the gameplay alterations (although I feel obliged to say that I don't like the "streamlined" gameplay approach at all) that irritates me, it's the change of tone. It's far less of an 80's classic sci/fi or space opera, it's far more of a comic book action movie-inspired setting now. The way characters look, talk, behave. The universe has pretty much folded in itself and places like Illium or Omega are mentioned pretty much non-stop, even though both being just two of thousands of settled worlds (and relatively small at that; Illium is one of the youngest asari colonies, for example).

I don't like comic books as an art medium, much less comic book movies. They tend to repeat the same concept over and over, characters are stale, they have a basic behavioral frame and don't change much. But there are some good comics... ME:Genesis most definitely not being one of them. Or the other tie-in comics, for that matter.

didymos1120, there's a big problem with Mass Effect 3 and the PS3 tie-in comic is at the heart of it, in my humble opinion. Either BioWare admits the comic completely messed up the plot of the original (and that based on your preview thread /the YoutTube videos) and eventually the PS3 players feel even more confused and irritated, or they just scrap most of the story and impact of the first and make Mass Effect 3 directly tied to Mass Effect 2. Essentially giving up on the entire "planned out trilogy" thing BioWare was advertising back in, what, 2006?

I'm pretty certain the EA, which since acquiring BioWare has proven it can f---- it customer base outside of the USA to no end, will take the easy route. They're not the publisher of the original, they don't need to invest a higher budget to bring content from the original to proper conclusion (because now with the PS3 there's not only an influx of new players, but an entire platform that won't get the first Mass Effect) and they can cut development time.

Okay, barring gameplay aside, story-wise, why shouldn't we be skeptic? So far we've been given no clue that the trilogy won't end with a deus-ex machina device that could put Return of the Jedi to shame; it's already thematically and stylistically inconsistent two games in, not to mention plot holes.

I'm getting Mass Effect 3 on the inertia of the original and I hope that Mass Effect 2 will the the RotJ rather than the TESB BioWare said it would be. Otherwise, it won't end well at all...

Modifié par Burdokva, 19 janvier 2011 - 07:55 .

[Fiery Phoenix]

LOL

[Xeranx]

[quote]Phaedon wrote...

Don't put words in my mouth, I never said that there was no constructive criticism, but the amount of non-constructive criticism overwhelmed them. Oh and yeah, since apparently Woo and co. have an "obligation" to keep a disappointment thread in line, why woud they? There are a lot more constructive threads than it and there are actually people that...

[quote]Jesse Houston washes his hands of these boards as told to us by you (with proof apparently).[/quote]
...okay, I guess that there aren't.[/quote]

When I asked what of the constructive criticisms I was asking if you think they view non-constructive and constructive criticisms as equally disheartening to respond to.  I honestly don't understand where you got the idea that I was trying to put words in your mouth considering that my post was in response to your post but not aimed at you.  The very least I could be accused of is using you as a soundboard to use in a way to amplify my question(s) to those who are more able to answer.

I said they could have kept it on track after they joined in the discussion.  Why?  Because Priestly locked that thread.  If he never touched it I would have no cause to say anything about it.  I would just say that they haven't voiced anything in any of the threads in which constructive criticism exists.  Also, I never said that they had an obligation to keep that thread on track, but seeing as they do have mod powers and they could quell any outbursts quickly enough I suggested that they could.  Again, I said could and not should. 

[quote]
Dev staff have NO obligation to waste their free time on whining (what kind of constructive criticism was there on the PS3 threads? I have been following them since their start, do enlighten me). I find your attitude to be insulting to this man's effort, to say the least.[/quote]

I mentioned the disappointment thread.  I never said anything about the PS3 thread(s).




[/quote]

[Babli]

Burdokva wrote...

Eh, I find these forum quite moderate in fact. At least the spoiler sections, where the more dedicated players/fans post. I'm certain that even gameplay discussion would be more civil in this section (and yes, I know - it's still the Internet, it's bound to have idiots who can't argue in a civil manner).

Honestly, I am pretty skeptic for Mass Effect 2. I was very disappointed overall by Mass Effect 2 and I had huge expectations for it, probably more than any other game. And it wasn't so much the gameplay alterations (although I feel obliged to say that I don't like the "streamlined" gameplay approach at all) that irritates me, it's the change of tone. It's far less of an 80's classic sci/fi or space opera, it's far more of a comic book action movie-inspired setting now. The wa characters look, talk, behave. The universe has pretty much folded in itself and places like Illium or Omega are mentioned pretty much non-stop, even though both being just two of thousands of settled worlds (and relatively small at that; Illium is one of the youngest asari colonies, for example).

I don't like comic books as an art medium, much less comic book movies. They tend to repeat the same concept over and over, characters are stale, they have a basic behavioral frame and don't change much. But there are some good comics... ME:Genesis most definitely not being one of them. Or the other tie-in comics, for that matter.

didymos1120, there's a big problem with Mass Effect 3 and the PS3 tie-in comic is at the heart of t. in my humble opinion. Either BioWare admits the comic completely messed up the plot of the original (and that based on your preview thread /the YoutTube videos) and eventually the PS3 players feel even more confused and irritated, or they just scrap most of the story and impact of the first and make Mass Effect 3 directly tied to Mass Effect 2. Essentially giving up on the entire "planned out trilogy" thing BioWare was advertising back in, what, 2006?

I'm pretty certain the EA, which since acquiring BioWare has proven it can f---- it customer base outside of the USA to no end, will take the easy route. They're not the publisher of the original, they don't need to invest a higher budget to bring content from the original to proper conclusion (because now with the PS3 there's not only an influx of new players, but an entire platform that won't get the first Mass Effect) and they can cut development time.

Okay, barring gameplay aside, story-wise, why shouldn't we be skeptic? So far we've been given no clue that the trilogy won't end with a deus-ex machina device that could put Return of the Jedi to shame; it's already thematically and stylistically inconsistent two games in, not to mention plot holes.

I'm getting Mass Effect 3 on the inertia of the original and I hope that Mass Effect 2 will the the RotJ rather than the TESB BioWare said it would be. Otherwise, it won't end well at all...

I like this human, he understands!
My thoughts exactly.
Seriously, I agree with every single word.

Modifié par Babli, 19 janvier 2011 - 07:52 .

[Phaedon]

I mentioned the disappointment thread. I never said anything about the PS3 thread(s).

Then you leave Jesse Houston out of this.

[Jean de Valette]

Nightwriter wrote...

They give us superb story in KOTOR, we want superb story in every other game.

They give us superb party banter in DA:O, we want superb party banter in every other game.

They gave us superb combat in ME2, we'll want superb combat in every other game.

KotOR had one big plotturn which you actually saw coming miles away, if you paid attention to the dialogue of the side missions. But for the rest of it, it was standard Sci-Fi fare with standard Star Wars story. DA:O didn't have have much party banter, had about as much as an unmodded BG2 game. But you could endlessly chat with NPCs at your campsite. Which really didn't get you anywhere because you couldn't influence your NPCs much, other then bribing them with gifts, which had abnormal influence results. ME2' combat was poor if you compare it was a traditional western cRPG, but for a 3rd person shooter it was alright.

All of the above complaints are unfair if you consider Bioware's new direction though. They're aiming for "Holywood" games - big, flashy, adventure, mainstream, box-office hits. But if you compare them to the gem that was the BG series (and other classic western cRPGs), then you can only conclude that Bioware is getting worst and worst at making such games.

Still, ME3 and DA2 should be met with open minds - and as long as you don't expect another RPG most will enjoy the end prodocts.

[Phaedon]

Jean de Valette wrote...
Still, ME3 and DA2 should be met with open minds - and as long as you don't expect another RPG most will enjoy the end prodocts.

I have to ask, why are some people expecting the Mass Effect games to be RPGs? They are as much RPGs as they are shooters. Before you someone says about 'This game had more x elements than y' then wait for it, I am preparing a big thread for the weekend. 

[Xeranx]

Phaedon wrote...

I mentioned the disappointment thread. I never said anything about the PS3 thread(s).

Then you leave Jesse Houston out of this.

You brought him up.  I didn't know Jesse Houston was disappointed with the way the forums were.  How would I know?  I used him as an example for the others.  Why can't you see this?  Why are you being antagonistic when I have not done so to you?

[Jean de Valette]

Phaedon wrote...

I have to ask, why are some people expecting the Mass Effect games to be RPGs? They are as much RPGs as they are shooters. Before you someone says about 'This game had more x elements than y' then wait for it, I am preparing a big thread for the weekend. 

I don't consider ME2 a RPG, but Bioware got its fame as a RPG maker.

[Bourne Endeavor]

Phaedon wrote...

Of course. There's even a feedback thread for the PS3 version now. I just can't think of any pre-release criticism that could have been constructive. But that's not the dev staff's job really, they don't get paid to browse the forums. It's probably the marketing staff that writes everything down and give it to them.

With t he exclusion of the comic, whose criticism is warranted. We are in agreement. Any notion pertaining to BioWare being treacherous for having released Mass Effect 2 on the PS3 is moronic. In this regard, no there would not have been any constructive and instead amounted to pointless console war loyalty.

Phaedon wrote...
I wouldn't call you vocal.

I suppose I have not done a decent enough job then.  I will take this as a positive, as those thought "most vocal" are usually held in a negative light.

[Rune-Chan]

AwesomeName wrote...

@Nightwriter: I'm not saying that the game suffers - I think ME1 and 2 are excellent - I'm simply saying that lots of criticism can actually be a positive sign that the game is really good. You tend to notice the flaws more if you're really into the game.

Though I do understand what you're saying.

Agreed, I am very vocal about games that I like when it comes to their flaws, whereas if I dislike a game I tend to just shut up and forget about it.

The reason is that if a game is very good then a flaw stands out that much more.

[Phaedon]

Xeranx wrote...
You brought him up.  I didn't know Jesse Houston was disappointed with the way the forums were.  How would I know?  I used him as an example for the others.  Why can't you see this?  Why are you being antagonistic when I have not done so to you?

You do understand that you are openly accusing an actual person on the internet. Not cool.

And that's just the tip of the iceberg. This kind of reaction 'They have to deal with non-constructive criticism' ends up as 'bullying' from the dev's viewpoint. Have you ever been a part of a serious artistic project? How did you react to the criticism?

Bourne Endeavor wrote...
I suppose I have not done a decent enough job then. [smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/tongue.png[/smilie] I will take this as a positive, as those thought "most vocal" are usually held in a negative light.

It kinda stuck, I use 'vocal' exclusively as a negative term here.