206 réponses à ce sujet

[Addai]

Weltenschlange wrote...
I can understand why some people would criticize Leliana's Song, but in contrast to DC it was actually part of DAO's narrative.

I'm starting to feel like a bit of a crank, but no it wasn't.  At least, it wasn't anything new.  You had already heard Leliana's story, or what we thought was her story, and with the DLC version we're not sure it's part of the DAO story either, except to convince you that Leliana either doesn't know the truth herself (cue Twilight Zone music) or she's a compulsive liar.  This is all beside the fact that it was about a character who wasn't even necessarily central to the main plot.  Leliana sat in camp for me, so she wasn't part of my DAO story at all really.  It also added little to nothing of color to Ferelden.  Maybe if it had actually been set in Orlais, that would have at least been an expansion on the story.

[Captain Sassy Pants]

filaminstrel wrote...

The only thing that would have made it better would have been if it had been initiated in-game, by asking Leliana to tell you the story.

I actually thought it was going to do that when I bought it. I guess I should have done some research (not that I didn't enjoy it, but the whole time I was playing it I thought that it would have worked much better as a "flashback" initiated through dialogue).

[Rm80]

well my favourites are the first two: wardens keep and Stone prisoner.



Lelianas song was the best of the later realesed dlc still I agree with Mike that it would have been better with Leliana and Warden

[Maria Caliban]

Images wrote...

David Gaider wrote...

He did not say it was the weakest DLC. He said we likely wouldn't do another DLC that doesn't involve your PC, as that weakens the experience for the player. That is not the same thing.

So out of interest, what do the team think of as their weakest DLC? I know they're you're children and you love them all equally in some measure, but come on, whose the Ivy League prospect and who do you shake your head at, hoping they move out of your basement someday?

David didn't do any of the DLC. It's a separate team.

[Maria Caliban]

tmp7704 wrote...

dbankier wrote...

I don't see what's so hard to understand. He thought it was good, but it could have been better.

Thinking it could've been better is fine. Already deciding "with confidence" that this untested gut feel couldn't possibly be wrong and discarding possibilty of making more of what was favourably received? That's another thing entirely.

What he meant was 'it didn't sell as well as other DLC.'

Which is sad, when you think about it. Once upon a time, people were eager about the idea of DLC because it would allow games that otherwise couldn't get published to reach an audience.

filaminstrel wrote...

David did work on Witch Hunt. Other lead writers have worked on the other DLCs as well, like Sheryl Chee on RtO.

She did codex entries for RtO.

Modifié par Maria Caliban, 19 janvier 2011 - 07:29 .

[Brockololly]

Maria Caliban wrote...

filaminstrel wrote...

David did work on Witch Hunt. Other lead writers have worked on the other DLCs as well, like Sheryl Chee on RtO.

She did codex entries for RtO.

I'm pretty sure Sheryl wrote most of Witch Hunt (Ariane, Finn and Dog) and David wrote Morrigan's part in Witch Hunt.

[Merci357]

While I enjoyed LS, a lot in fact, part of the reason why is because I like Leliana. I can understand why someone who dislikes her won't touch that particular DLC.

If I've to nominate the worst Origins DLC, it would be DSC, hands down. The rest was decent enough, even Witch Hunt - which could have been much better, but I guess it's bad reception is because of it offered nothing most people where looking for, no resolution, no information, nothing. We are as clueless about Morigans plan as we where before. It's a huge cliffhanger.

That said, compared to ME2 DLC (just picking the other BW game) DA DLC has been quite lacking. I enjoyed most of it, but this constant reuse of old locations was uninspiring, to say the least. Well, lots of room for improvements.

[Brockololly]

Blastback wrote...

Zjarcal wrote...

Upsettingshorts wrote...

It was "Worst DLC For a Good Game". It also "won" readers choice for the same thing. (link)

Rather horrified by the feedback, I still haven't played it myself.

Still. Worse than DSC? Seriously?

Well, it suffered from two major issues.  First was the bug where Morrigan would act as if you hadn't performed the Dark Ritual even if you did.  Second, alot of fans seemed to hate the way it ended the Warden's story.

Yeah, the animosity towards Witch Hunt I think stems in large part from the fact that nothing is really resolved there. You definitely get the most out of it if you romanced Morrigan, but when the marketing hyped it up as answering all sorts of Morrigan related questions and it only serves to toss on more questions, it just frustrated people.

Add in the buggy dialogue in what was arguably the conversation that comprised the whole point of the DLC, the fact that Morrigan is only in it for a couple minutes, the recycled environments and short length and lack of resolution for the Warden (especially if you don't go with Morrigan) and I think people were mostly really disappointed in it since Witch Hunt could have been so much more. 

I enjoyed WH well enough, but that plot/story should have been twice as long or part of the expansion pack.

[InvaderErl]

scyphozoa wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...

Which
is sad, when you think about it. Once upon a time, people were eager about the idea of DLC because it would allow games that otherwise couldn't get published to reach an audience.

One of my biggest criticisms for Bioware pre-DAO, was that one of their weakest links was how they handled DLC. They advertised KOTOR would have DLC, which in 2004 was a huge step foward. And they did release 1 small DLC for KOTOR. Then they missed JE entirely for DLC, which I think would have been a crucial step in defining and developing their approach to story-based DLC.  ME1 was when I really was upset by Bioware's lack of DLC. It was understandable that KOTOR didn't have great DLC because it was such an infantile concept, but by 2007, DLC was or should have been common place enough for Bioware to deliver more than they had. So for
years, I've complained that Bioware needed to step their game up with DLC.

Now they have and there is a cultural backlash from the gaming community that resents DLC and argues that it should "be free and included on the disc" etc etc.. 

/shakemyhead

The ME2 DLC has been pretty favorably received because it offers original content for your buck as good as what's in the game. People are frothing for the next installment based on how good Kasumi/Overlord/Shadowbroker was.

The Dragon Age DLC's have all re-used areas again and again, they've had weak supporting cast and they've been combat orientated for the most part when Origin's strength lay in its wonderful story and roleplaying aspects.

The only one to kind of buck that was Leliana and even then the story was set in Ferelden suddenly in order to avoid new areas. I get the budget is limited on these things which is why I've never trolled about it, but they really weren't up to par. I didn't even bother getting the Golem DLC and I'm a huge Bioware ****.

Modifié par InvaderErl, 19 janvier 2011 - 08:00 .

[Lukas Kristjanson]

A mix of opinion in the thread, as there always is. Makes successful DLC a bit of a moving target, but that’s the fun of it. Leliana’s Song was an odd duck, certainly. An experiment in a lot of ways, and you’ll see echoes of those efforts in DAII. For my nitpicky little ego I’d note that there was no retcon in the story—the high-level is narrator Leliana trying to suss out what purpose her story can have. The raw facts, what she honestly related to the Warden in the main game, can be inspirational or cautionary depending on how she presents it (how you play her in the DLC), and that act of searching for meaning says more about her character. So, you know, ppbbthhhth.

Anyway, we’re taking the lessons of all the DLC—company wide—into consideration for DAII. Player expectation and reviews are factors, but there’re also resource considerations and how and when the DLC was actually played/purchased, which has made for some interesting data.

And as a tease for those who did like LS, I did several treatments for companion DLCs. Two made it to the full design doc phase--the fast moving LS caper, and playing as rookie warden Alistair. Band of Brothers in DA setting? Man, I so wanted to write that.

[Dave of Canada]

Lukas Kristjanson wrote...

And as a tease for those who did like LS, I did several treatments for companion DLCs. Two made it to the full design doc phase--the fast moving LS caper, and playing as rookie warden Alistair. Band of Brothers in DA setting? Man, I so wanted to write that.

I'd play it.

[Cuthlan]

I didn't give Leliana's Song a chance at first because it wasn't my character, and because of the new paraphrasing dialog system. I did, however, finally play it recently...



Leliana's Song was the best DLC made for DA:O. The writing/storytelling, the music, the atmosphere... it was great.



There, I said it.

[Anarya]

Augh we kinda-sorta almost had an Alistair DLC? *sadface*

[Patriciachr34]

I liked LS. It was nice to see a different side of the character and get perspective on her past (at least from Leliana's point of view). I actually started respeccing her to dual wield after that simply because she was so awesome in that spec. I also like the way you could interact with the other characters at their Denerim home. I'm hoping this was a trial for the NPC conversations in DA2.



I do agree that it is weak in that it had no replayability. I like to take my wardens through the entire journey, Origins, Awakening, Golems, and Witch Hunt. This way I can get that warden's perspective on all of the events. You can't do this with LS as the main PC is set.

[Addai]

Lukas Kristjanson wrote...

A mix of opinion in the thread, as there always is. Makes successful DLC a bit of a moving target, but that’s the fun of it. Leliana’s Song was an odd duck, certainly. An experiment in a lot of ways, and you’ll see echoes of those efforts in DAII. For my nitpicky little ego I’d note that there was no retcon in the story—the high-level is narrator Leliana trying to suss out what purpose her story can have. The raw facts, what she honestly related to the Warden in the main game, can be inspirational or cautionary depending on how she presents it (how you play her in the DLC), and that act of searching for meaning says more about her character. So, you know, ppbbthhhth.

I get that.  But, it's very meta.  I suppose it's an interesting exercise if you want to delve that deeply into Leliana's subconscious.  That does not sound like a fun trip to me, so I really have to defer judgment. 

And as a tease for those who did like LS, I did several treatments for companion DLCs. Two made it to the full design doc phase--the fast moving LS caper, and playing as rookie warden Alistair. Band of Brothers in DA setting? Man, I so wanted to write that.

Oh man, I so wanted that DLC.  We talked about this very thing on the Alistair thread.  Would we have gotten Duncan as a playable character?  Maybe Riordan, since he was at Alistair's joining?  You're cruel to bring it up.  So cruel. 

The only thing better than that would have been a Stolen Throne DLC with a Loghain and Night Elves mission.  *cries more*

Modifié par Addai67, 19 janvier 2011 - 08:06 .

[TheRevanchist]

Lukas Kristjanson wrote...

A mix of opinion in the thread, as there always is. Makes successful DLC a bit of a moving target, but that’s the fun of it. Leliana’s Song was an odd duck, certainly. An experiment in a lot of ways, and you’ll see echoes of those efforts in DAII. For my nitpicky little ego I’d note that there was no retcon in the story—the high-level is narrator Leliana trying to suss out what purpose her story can have. The raw facts, what she honestly related to the Warden in the main game, can be inspirational or cautionary depending on how she presents it (how you play her in the DLC), and that act of searching for meaning says more about her character. So, you know, ppbbthhhth.

Anyway, we’re taking the lessons of all the DLC—company wide—into consideration for DAII. Player expectation and reviews are factors, but there’re also resource considerations and how and when the DLC was actually played/purchased, which has made for some interesting data.

And as a tease for those who did like LS, I did several treatments for companion DLCs. Two made it to the full design doc phase--the fast moving LS caper, and playing as rookie warden Alistair. Band of Brothers in DA setting? Man, I so wanted to write that.

OMG we almost had Alistair!?!?! WHAT HAPPEND MAN!?!?! -shakes violently-

[upsettingshorts]

Addai67 wrote...
 You're cruel to bring it up.  So cruel. 

One might say it's a heavy risk.

[Blessed Silence]

David Gaider wrote...

He did not say it was the weakest DLC. He said we likely wouldn't do another DLC that doesn't involve your PC, as that weakens the experience for the player. That is not the same thing.

I will have to really disagree with this.

I thoroughly enjoyed Leliana's Song (pretty much the only one of the DLC I did that I bought) because it took time to show what made Leliana what she is in a sense.  Betrayal and the feelings of doubt and uncertainty .. and fear ...

I would definately be behind more DLC that goes indepth of character backgrounds w/o the main character there.

Modifié par Blessed Silence, 19 janvier 2011 - 08:06 .

[Reaverwind]

Anarya wrote...

Augh we kinda-sorta almost had an Alistair DLC? *sadface*

That is one I'd have bought. Ah, well...

[TheRevanchist]

Indeed...I myself don't want to see Hawke in EVERY freakin DLC. I see enough of him during the base game and intergrated DLC's. I like backstory stuff like LS, I mean come on Gaider, you said yourself Thedas is a character in itself! Surely that means theres room for none Hawke DLC! It's a refreshing change of pace to see the world through other people's eyes.

[Brockololly]

Lukas Kristjanson wrote...
Band of Brothers in DA setting? Man, I so wanted to write that.

That sounds like about a dozen different kinds of awesome:O