49 réponses à ce sujet

[weedlink10]

Lets face it there isn't that many combat powers unless you count ammo powers which don't, i would really like to see more combat powers in ME3, i was thinking about land mines, you throw them out like grenades, but only explode if some one walks over them, went maxed out bigger explotion, or you can throw out three at at time, also some type of C4, i also think that concussive shot needs to do more damage, as it is i only use it to keep enemies away, lets face it, the soldier is the most poweful class but kinda boring to play with, with only guns for him to use, what do you guys think and ideas.

[ezrafetch]

I think the Soldier is a ton of fun. And regardless, you're better off spamming Adrenaline Rush so other "combat powers" are pretty much unnecessary. Should this change for ME3? Probably. Basically you'd probably end up with something like the ME1 Soldier. But at least in ME2 each "weapon" is like a power, in a sense. And AR is the power that brings it all together and makes it pro.

[lazuli]

I wouldn't say no to more grenades as combat powers, but I'd have to teach myself how to use them first.

[weedlink10]

ezrafetch wrote...

I think the Soldier is a ton of fun. And regardless, you're better off spamming Adrenaline Rush so other "combat powers" are pretty much unnecessary. Should this change for ME3? Probably. Basically you'd probably end up with something like the ME1 Soldier. But at least in ME2 each "weapon" is like a power, in a sense. And AR is the power that brings it all together and makes it pro.

i really don't want them to go all cazy and add stupid powers, but i really can play as the soldier any more, they need to add about two or three more powers for him just to spice him up a bit, they really can't make him the same for ME3 or i can't see myself playing the game more than once with him, some of you must feel the same way.

[tangmcgame]

I think Adrenaline Rush probably needs to be broken up a bit. A short-term, long cooldown (and I'd be in favor of some abilities not triggering a global cooldown, but rather a separate one) ability that gives the slowdown and another that is a short-term resistance to damage for storming forward. As far as other revisions go, I'd love if Shockwave knocked down regular enemies regardless of defenses and threw enemies without defense. Those changes would probably do a lot to mix up the gameplay for several classes.

I'd love if they added new powers so long as they don't too many more squad points. Fewer points, more good options. That way when we're on our third or fourth playthrough on a class we might still be trying new things.

[Kronner]

They should add ME1's powers like Marksman, Carnage etc.



Soldier's Adrenaline Rush in its current form is just boring. Basically super easy mode for 5s on a 3s cooldown.

[weedlink10]

Kronner wrote...

They should add ME1's powers like Marksman, Carnage etc.

Soldier's Adrenaline Rush in its current form is just boring. Basically super easy mode for 5s on a 3s cooldown.

OMG, i forgot about those powers they should totally bring those back, even the krogan uses carnage in ME2 so why don't we get to use it, marksan on my  M-4 shuriken with inferno ammo would be amazing.

Modifié par weedlink10, 19 janvier 2011 - 09:37 .

[Sparrow44]

weedlink10 wrote...

Kronner wrote...

They should add ME1's powers like Marksman, Carnage etc.

Soldier's Adrenaline Rush in its current form is just boring. Basically super easy mode for 5s on a 3s cooldown.

OMG, i forgot about those powers they should totally bring those back, even the krogan uses carnage in ME2 so why don't we get to use it.

Yeah enemies kept Carnage in ME2 and Shep and co. get stuck with Concussive Shot.

Stuff like Flashbang and Inferno grenades could possibly be made into regular 'Soldier' powers with some adjustments, and proximitiy mines are a good idea to stop enemies flanking you and could be 'cast' in a similar manner to the tech mines from ME1.

[weedlink10]

Sparroww wrote...

weedlink10 wrote...

Kronner wrote...

They should add ME1's powers like Marksman, Carnage etc.

Soldier's Adrenaline Rush in its current form is just boring. Basically super easy mode for 5s on a 3s cooldown.

OMG, i forgot about those powers they should totally bring those back, even the krogan uses carnage in ME2 so why don't we get to use it.

Yeah enemies kept Carnage in ME2 and Shep and co. get stuck with Concussive Shot.

Stuff like Flashbang and Inferno grenades could possibly be made into regular 'Soldier' powers with some adjustments, and proximitiy mines are a good idea to stop enemies flanking you and could be 'cast' in a similar manner to the tech mines from ME1.

i forgot about those tech mines, wonder why there were taken out, really useful for husk that rush at you, that needs to make a come back.

[cpanda]

Or what if the passive for the soldier was changed so running changing direction ducking behind and climbing cover were faster in combat. So you have a more responsive shepard.

[Praetor Knight]

cpanda wrote...

Or what if the passive for the soldier was changed so running changing direction ducking behind and climbing cover were faster in combat. So you have a more responsive shepard.

Well there is Storm Speed, but do you mean a larger bonus or a faster walk / jog speed also?

http://masseffect.wi.../Combat_Mastery

[tangmcgame]

I think he meant something that speeds up the animation for taking cover, ramping over cover, and the ability to alter the direction of your sprint/storm.  I'd love if more classes had more diverse passives or something unique tied into their passive.  Things like faster recharge for shields or smaller delay.  Health regeneration (a constant regen as well as the quick one in cover), heavy weapons ammo efficiency (less ammo per shot), increase damage to certain defenses with certain powers (maybe Throw v. Shields or something like that), or any number of unique things.  They don't necessarily have to be combat-related, either.  Like the Engineer's ability to reduce the cost of research is helpful, fitting, and pretty cool.  More stuff like that.  In all honesty, it's not all that necessary I guess, but it could be neat.

[weedlink10]

tangmcgame wrote...

I think he meant something that speeds up the animation for taking cover, ramping over cover, and the ability to alter the direction of your sprint/storm.  I'd love if more classes had more diverse passives or something unique tied into their passive.  Things like faster recharge for shields or smaller delay.  Health regeneration (a constant regen as well as the quick one in cover), heavy weapons ammo efficiency (less ammo per shot), increase damage to certain defenses with certain powers (maybe Throw v. Shields or something like that), or any number of unique things.  They don't necessarily have to be combat-related, either.  Like the Engineer's ability to reduce the cost of research is helpful, fitting, and pretty cool.  More stuff like that.  In all honesty, it's not all that necessary I guess, but it could be neat.

i really like that idea, adetp gets a passive that lets throw and pull to work on protected enemies, or it just be in the form of a perk, a perk everytime you level up.

Modifié par weedlink10, 20 janvier 2011 - 04:44 .

[Praetor Knight]

weedlink10 wrote...

adept gets a passive that lets throw and pull to work on protected enemies, or it just be in the form of a perk, a perk everytime you level up.

With Biotics, also consider that there are some hiccups with defeating some protections.

In ME you can use the different types of exoskeletons and an armor with a high physics resistance to pretty much neutralize the physics effects of biotics on yourself and the squad.

So for me having biotics not be as effective in ME2 is fine IMHO.

But there certainly are other bonuses that can benefit the classes as tangmcgame posted, like adding more damage done by Throw instead of rag-dolling the enemy through defenses.

[tangmcgame]

I like the idea of a perk system, similar to that used in the Fallout games. That would make for some interesting build options. So, in the case of throw it would be something like, "Improved Kinetics - Your Throw ability now does 50/75/100/125 (Field) or 150 (Heavy) damage to Shields." Then another ability you could take later on would be "Overwhelming Force - Your Throw and Shockwave abilities will knock a target down even if they're still protected by defenses." With some thought, it could actually become pretty robust.

[Sailears]

I still stand by the 2 passive, 2 active combat powers, because combat classes are skewed in favour of using more weapons.
In addition to this, all classes get grenades which can be toggled between projectile mode (lob them) and hover mode (like in ME1).

Rather than trying to reword stuff, I'm just going to copy and paste this from another thread:

Soldier
Active talents
- Concussive Shot (needs to have more damage IMO, like carnage)
- Lethal strike (melee attack when close enough to an enemy, like the attack part of Kasumi's shadow strike. Possibly with a combat knife or your equipped gun or omni tool. Deals a lot of damage. Stuns enemies on health for a short time.)
    - Deadly strike: if enemy is unaware or disabled (eg, pull/neural shock/concussive blast), can instakill. Otherwise deals increased damage.
    - Rapid strike: Reduced cooldown if enemy is killed. Increased stun duration if enemy is not killed but defenseless.
Passive talents
- Assault Training (more melee and weapon damage, faster grenade throw animation and weapon switch animation)
- Fitness (sprint speed and duration, and damage resistance)

Vanguard gets,
Active combat talent
- Concussive Shot
Passive combat talent
- Assault Training (more melee and weapon damage, faster grenade throw animation and weapon switch animation)

Infiltrator gets,
Active combat talent
- Lethal strike
Passive combat talent
- Fitness (sprint speed and duration, and damage resistance)

Essentially the passive talents should focus on augmenting the combat prowess of the soldier, and the active powers can be anything at all. I just listed examples, but there are a lot of different possibilities.

Modifié par Curunen, 20 janvier 2011 - 05:57 .

[Lvl20DM]

A talent called "weapon expertise" or something could be interesting. It would decrease reload times, up weapon damage, etc. But it could also give access to and improve powers tied to weapons. I'm thinking Carnage for shotguns, concussive shot for AR's, a "crippling shot" for Sniper Rifles, etc.

[Mightyg]

Inspiration - When Sheperd is between allies and enemies, allies gain a damage and cooldown bonus.

Suppressing Fire - Causes allies to release all their powers and current ammo clip on a single enemy and pulls attention towards themselves and away from Shepherd.

[james1976]

ezrafetch wrote...

I think the Soldier is a ton of fun. And regardless, you're better off spamming Adrenaline Rush so other "combat powers" are pretty much unnecessary. Should this change for ME3? Probably. Basically you'd probably end up with something like the ME1 Soldier. But at least in ME2 each "weapon" is like a power, in a sense. And AR is the power that brings it all together and makes it pro.

I'm someone who just doesn't like Adrenaline Rush but I like the Soldier.....bullet time powers as I call it doesn't appeal to me.  The first few seconds scoped in with a sniper rifle using an Infiltrator bothers me too.  But I like the Infiltrator otherwise.

[Matterialize]

I felt like the Soldier should've had more passive combat buffs. Noticeable ones, I mean. Like 50% more heavy weapon ammo than other classes, and maybe slightly higher rate of fire with all weapons or something. And real grenades, ME1 style!

Before ME2 came out I guessed that while all classes could use heavy weapons, maybe Soldiers would have exclusive access to the best ones like the Cain. That's what I think would be cool. Having an AR isn't that big of a deal, since everyone else gets an SMG now.

And also, maybe "leadership" squad buffs like Miranda's but better. Say, a substantial boost to squadmate weapon damage.

Modifié par Matterialize, 23 janvier 2011 - 07:49 .

[Bozorgmehr]

Soldier's ARush has to be gimped / stripped first. Adding new powers won't change a thing if ARush remains 10x more effective and powerful. Having a power that can be used every 3 s to make aiming a joke; doubles damage and reduces damage taken is really bad.

Just splitting it into 3 separate powers would help a lot; one power to slowmo; one to increase damage; and one reducing damage taken.

Think of it like the Crysis' Nano Suit. You had to chose between more speed; more strength; more armor (and cloak but that's for the Infiltrator). In ME2 Shep's got a Suit doing everything simultaneous - very bad design and OP ed.

Only when ARush's power is reduces it makes sense to add other powers; if not, no one in his right mind would opt for throwing a grenade (6 s cd) if ARush can be used twice and inflict 10x more damage.

[JaegerBane]

Bozorgmehr wrote...

Soldier's ARush has to be gimped / stripped first. Adding new powers won't change a thing if ARush remains 10x more effective and powerful. Having a power that can be used every 3 s to make aiming a joke; doubles damage and reduces damage taken is really bad.
Just splitting it into 3 separate powers would help a lot; one power to slowmo; one to increase damage; and one reducing damage taken.
Think of it like the Crysis' Nano Suit. You had to chose between more speed; more strength; more armor (and cloak but that's for the Infiltrator). In ME2 Shep's got a Suit doing everything simultaneous - very bad design and OP ed.

Precisely - it was a very badly implemented system. I get the impression that in the effort of trying to make the soldier something other than the boring beefcake it was in ME1, the developers simply threw balance out of the window.

I'm not sure spliting into three seperate powers will help - personally, I think splitting it up into an enhancement power (i.e. boosted speed and damage) and a bullet time power will work better. Individual powers that boost damage and speed would be difficult to implement in a balanced fashion with the current cooldown system (either they'll be worthless or OP'd). You could do that in Crysis as there were no cooldowns, just a pool of energy that could be applied to whichever boost.

Only when ARush's power is reduces it makes sense to add other powers; if not, no one in his right mind would opt for throwing a grenade (6 s cd) if ARush can be used twice and inflict 10x more damage.

This ultimately boils down to the cooldown, which is set at a flagrantly ludicrous 3 seconds a pop. I don't know how on earth this was ever considered balanced (considering AR is the same cooldown time as things like Pull and Neural Shock) but yes, until this is sorted there is no point in adding further powers. If the current AR was, say, a 12 second cooldown it would be interesting to see if it was still unbalanced. Such a cooldown would make grenade powers a little more useful and would stop AR spamming.

Modifié par JaegerBane, 23 janvier 2011 - 02:00 .

[JaegerBane]

m14567 wrote...

I don't disagree that AR is a little unbalanced but you are talking about nerfing the core ability on the most popular class. That is asking for it, whether it is right or wrong. I think they'd be better focused tinkering with the other 5 classes.

That's true - but I'm not sure the simple fact it's a core ability is reason to leave it alone.

[Bozorgmehr]

m14567 wrote...

I don't disagree that AR is a little unbalanced but you are talking about nerfing the core ability on the most popular class. That is asking for it, whether it is right or wrong. I think they'd be better focused tinkering with the other 5 classes.

Those are two different issues: Why is the Soldier being played most? and How to balance powers?

The first time I played ME1 I had no clue whatsoever what biotic powers were and what they could do. I started with Soldier (like, I believe, most people do) because I understood the concept of shooting stuff. Using squadmate powers during the Soldier playthrough got me excited thus Adept was up next. I believe most people who have played with different classes don't prefer Soldier at all.

It's easier to re-balance one class than to re-balance the other five IMHO. Besides I don't know how to get the Adept's unique power on par with ARush. That would mean Singularity warp detonates everything within range on a 3 s cooldown, i.e. break balance completely?
I don't care much about the balance between classes, there's nothing wrong with one class being a little harder to play than the others. I do care about some flexibility, it doesn't make sense to have multiple powers on a global cooldown with one vastly outperforming all the others. There has to be choice, some powers should be more effective in certain situations/ versus certain enemies. Soldiers don't need to chose or think, just hit ARush whenever available and they're good.

Soldier's unique power should give them an edge using weapons. Adding other (combat) powers should give other benefits that are equally / more effective at times than the unique skill. I think there is no other way than reducing / limiting ARush effects.