108 réponses à ce sujet

[Addai]

Zjarcal wrote...
Quick question, since I've never romanced Alistair, how reluctant is he to do the DR when in a romance with the player?

Very.  But if you use the line "You know I love you, right?" to start the conversation, it goes much easier.  Also the more he knows about it, the harder it is to persuade him.  I still always told him everything.  I thought he should know, and I like his hissy fit when you tell him it's for an old god.

He's not a happy camper.  He's very relieved if you back down.

Modifié par Addai67, 20 janvier 2011 - 07:11 .

[Zjarcal]

Hmm, interesting. I suppose it's not that different than with a friend then.



Just close your eyes Alistair... and think of the warden. Poor fella.

[Kappa Neko]

By the way, I did the party picking for the Archdemon battle again and left Alistair behind to hear his reply to that, and well, what's so interesting about this conversation?? I was expecting him to be very angry with me. Robbing him of his chance to sacrifice himself for me and all. But he wasn't angry at all. He was way too accepting! "I'll never forget you", yeah.... disappointing.



I thought the whole conversation about having sex with Morrigan was hilarious. "Be killed by the Archdemon or sleep with Morrigan. How does someone make that kind of choice?" *g*

I, too, told him everything. So is it possible that he refuses to do the ritual? Like when you're not in a relationship?

[ejoslin]

whether Alistair accepts the ritual is based on a counter and whether he's hardened or not (it's easier to convince him to do it if he's hardened). it's also easier if you are in a relationship and easiest if he's either in love or still in love -- especially if you tell him things like, "You know i love you," and "If you really loved me, you'd do it.'

however, even a hostile warden with no points in persuade can convince him.  Giving him all the information does take points away, and it is possible for him to refuse anyone, but it actually takes a bit of effort to get him to say no.  It CAN happen, though.

Modifié par ejoslin, 20 janvier 2011 - 01:10 .

[Steve236]

I like him to..but id love him if he just learn NOT TO RUN IN TO ONE OF MY DAMN FIREBALLS SPELLS!!

[Elsariel]

I was soooo selfish playing my first time through. I romanced Alistair as a human mage so I made Anora queen and then made Alistair do the DR so we could be happily ever after together. Gratifying on a romantic level but didn't sit well with my conscience.

[Goosefish]

Elsariel wrote...

I was soooo selfish playing my first time through. I romanced Alistair as a human mage so I made Anora queen and then made Alistair do the DR so we could be happily ever after together. Gratifying on a romantic level but didn't sit well with my conscience.

Ditto.  Well, that's what I'm doing this time around, at least.  My first playthrough I made him King, because come on?  How romantic and epic to see the growth of the goofy, adorable Alistair you've been traveling with finally grow up and realize his full potential by taking the throne that is rightfully his?  A la Simba, if you will.  And we all know how he makes one good-looking king.  And to be honest, I thought maybe it would work out somehow between my Dalish Elf Warden and him, so when he marched up to me after the Landsmeet and painfully (for both of us) severed our relationship and then walked away, my heart pretty much broke. 

Also for that playthrough, I did the DR and then remained at the castle as Chancellor, which I could see being the most logical/practical outcome if this whole shebang were a real scenario.  Heartbreaking, yes, to keep the Warden hanging around the castle, practically ruling the country, always in the presence of the man she loves but can never have - seeing him daily, probably, and seeing him marry someone else.  But maybe she just couldn't leave, or maybe she felt a duty to stick around for the benefit of Ferelden, after all she's done for it.  I dunno. 

But as I think about it more, I think making him king and then refusing the DR is the most noble - and therefore morally gratifying - course.  I know Alistair didn't really want to be King, but sometimes (and I think it's a major theme of the entire game - just listen to Loghain) personal sacrifices must be made for the greater good.  I bet he'd thank me later on.  And the DR is just too shady, too cowardly.  I think the Warden sacrificing herself, letting Alistair be king in relative peace with no dirty deed with Morrigan and some mystery child resting heavy on his conscience, is the more poetic, noble ending.  IMO.

But the romantic person in me still wants to see the Warden and Alistair be able to rule together, so last night I made a Human Noble character...but I hate her!  I feel I got it right the first time around because my Dalish Elf and Alistair just seem to belong together, based on personality, looks, and I even liked the Dalish background story better.  It just fits my sensibilities more, and the sensibilities of who I imagine Alistair to be.  I think he would like a little exotic in his life.

So I think I'll just accept a tragic, albeit morally satisfying, ending.

Wow, that got way wordier than I intended.  And I'm sure it's all been said before.  Sorry guys!  I know I'm late to this party.

[errant_knight]

Why do you hate your Cousland? That's my favorite origin by far. I love the sense of connection to the Howe plot, and the governance of Ferelden, and the parallels between Alistair's and the Cousland's need for justice. The familial devotion to duty, king and country ups the ante, and I really love the Couslands themselves. Bryce, Eleanor, and Fergus are awesome. And, for me, it has the added bonus of being an origin from which my S&S warrior might naturally come.

Modifié par errant_knight, 22 janvier 2011 - 06:38 .

[Goosefish]

It's more the character I created that I hate, than the story, in all honesty. I couldn't decide who she was going to be - her personality kept shifting in my head and her looks just weren't satisfying me. I think I'm just so committed to my original character and the choices etc. I'd made in the storyline on my first playthrough that this new character felt wrong and foreign, especially by the time I made it to Ostagar and she met Alistair. I couldn't imagine Alistair falling for this girl who was so unlike my first char.



Oh this is all so silly, isn't it? Haha

[Kappa Neko]

I have only just completed my first playthrough, so I can't really say, but it seems to me that your first character is the one you're most fond of. That's at least how I feel about my femShep. My subsequent playthroughs were just explorations of variables. Not much emotional attachment there.

So I bet romancing Alistair again with a different character will feel wrong. I liked the unhappy ending of romancing him with a non-human character. I played a different outcome with both surviving thanks to the DR but I didn't much like it. I had hoped accepting Morrigan's deal would result in chaos, something to make you feel bad, but nothing of the sort is mentioned in the epilogue. Witch Hunt doesn't tell us much more, either. So far there are no consequences for being selfish. That's very disappointing.

Am I the only one who respects Alistair's wish not to be king? I don't particularly like Anora, but I don't think letting her continue to rule is a bad choice at all. Yes, I believe with some training Alistair makes a fine king, and yes, sometimes sacrifices are necessary, but I don't see how making him king is a necessary burden. The epilogue does not suggest that he should have been king. It says Anora turned out to be a good queen. Maybe I'll think differently about when when I actually make him king. I'll certainly do so on my second playthrough with my male Dalish Elf (I'm curious about the Morrigan romance).

[ejoslin]

Alistair's ending with a non-human female most definitely can be happy. don't harden him, and keep him a gray warden -- you two can be over-the-top happy for ever and ever, though he will have to have sex with a woman he doesn't like in order for it to happen.



But I recommend trying Zevran's and Leliana's romance (modded, if possible, to get the correct dialogs).

[Carmen_Willow]

IanPolaris wrote...

If you are in love with Alistair and you don't take the Dark Ritual, then Alistair will ALWAYS sacrifice himself for you with the Archdemon if he is in the party. The only way to prevent this is to leave Alistair at the gates (and get some priceless conversation).

-Polaris

If, however, you don't push him all the way to love, and don't harden him, he will sleep with you, break up with you and then let you die killing the archdemon.  I know, because in my very first playthrough, that's what happened.

[Carmen_Willow]

@Kappa Neko



I agree with your assessment on everything. It really bothered me that the guy who actually slew the archdemon got a passing mention but not a funeral...I hated that, and I too was so sad, I could not enjoy the celebration at all. The writers did an excellent job of having us care for Alistair and then they discarded him like used Kleenex in the big finale. Why couldn't we have had a cutscene to Alistair's funeral after Duncan said, "At what cost?" Heck, my character had just lost the love of her life. She was in no mood to be praised as the hero of Ferelden.

[ejoslin]

Carmen_Willow wrote...

IanPolaris wrote...

If you are in love with Alistair and you don't take the Dark Ritual, then Alistair will ALWAYS sacrifice himself for you with the Archdemon if he is in the party. The only way to prevent this is to leave Alistair at the gates (and get some priceless conversation).

-Polaris

If, however, you don't push him all the way to love, and don't harden him, he will sleep with you, break up with you and then let you die killing the archdemon.  I know, because in my very first playthrough, that's what happened.

It's the "still in love" flag.  There are a few things that set it -- and a few ways of breaking up which will never set it, even if he fell in love.

However, you can get THIS beautiful/sad ending.  A still-in-love Alistair kisses the warden goodbye, while an in-love Zevran watches on.  Ok, done picspamming for now

[Carmen_Willow]

It is truly one of the most engaging romances in video gaming history. Kudos to the writers!

[sevalaricgirl]

errant_knight wrote...

See, Your feelings about the DR are mine about marrying Alistair to Anora, so milelage varies widely. He can either have an unpleasant time one night, or for the rest of his life.

I absolutely agree.  One bad night for Alistair means happiness for him and my warden for the rest of his days.  I'd never set him up with Anora.  He did give me a much harder time this last playthrough about the ritual but he finally agreed.  IRL, I'd rather my hubby sleep with another woman 1 time than have him die.  BTW, I romanced Alistair 14 times with several different characters including two different Dalish elves and loved every minute of it.  This last playthrough, I hardened Alistair, made him sole king and stayed his mistress.  It's the best ending I think.  You get him in the end permanently.

Modifié par sevalaricgirl, 23 janvier 2011 - 11:27 .

[errant_knight]

Kappa Neko wrote...

I have only just completed my first playthrough, so I can't really say, but it seems to me that your first character is the one you're most fond of. That's at least how I feel about my femShep. My subsequent playthroughs were just explorations of variables. Not much emotional attachment there.
So I bet romancing Alistair again with a different character will feel wrong. I liked the unhappy ending of romancing him with a non-human character. I played a different outcome with both surviving thanks to the DR but I didn't much like it. I had hoped accepting Morrigan's deal would result in chaos, something to make you feel bad, but nothing of the sort is mentioned in the epilogue. Witch Hunt doesn't tell us much more, either. So far there are no consequences for being selfish. That's very disappointing.
Am I the only one who respects Alistair's wish not to be king? I don't particularly like Anora, but I don't think letting her continue to rule is a bad choice at all. Yes, I believe with some training Alistair makes a fine king, and yes, sometimes sacrifices are necessary, but I don't see how making him king is a necessary burden. The epilogue does not suggest that he should have been king. It says Anora turned out to be a good queen. Maybe I'll think differently about when when I actually make him king. I'll certainly do so on my second playthrough with my male Dalish Elf (I'm curious about the Morrigan romance).

You're certainly not the only one, as evidenced by the number of people who prefer to keep him a grey warden, often unhardened, but there are as many who see that as not helping him get past his poor self image to realize his full potential, both as a man and a leader, and keeping him more dependent on others, including the warden.

[Goosefish]

Kappa Neko wrote...

I have only just completed my first playthrough, so I can't really say, but it seems to me that your first character is the one you're most fond of. That's at least how I feel about my femShep. My subsequent playthroughs were just explorations of variables. Not much emotional attachment there.
So I bet romancing Alistair again with a different character will feel wrong.

That's completely it.  It did feel wrong.   Also, I played the game exactly how I wanted to the first time around, so I don't really feel the need to explore a different character.  Not yet, anyway.  We'll see how I feel in a month or two when I'm ready to play again.

I liked the unhappy ending of romancing him with a non-human character. I played a different outcome with both surviving thanks to the DR but I didn't much like it. I had hoped accepting Morrigan's deal would result in chaos, something to make you feel bad, but nothing of the sort is mentioned in the epilogue. Witch Hunt doesn't tell us much more, either. So far there are no consequences for being selfish. That's very disappointing.
Am I the only one who respects Alistair's wish not to be king? I don't particularly like Anora, but I don't think letting her continue to rule is a bad choice at all. Yes, I believe with some training Alistair makes a fine king, and yes, sometimes sacrifices are necessary, but I don't see how making him king is a necessary burden. The epilogue does not suggest that he should have been king. It says Anora turned out to be a good queen. Maybe I'll think differently about when when I actually make him king. I'll certainly do so on my second playthrough with my male Dalish Elf (I'm curious about the Morrigan romance).

So I just finished going through all the possible endings with my Dalish and the last one I did was where we both live as Grey Wardens together.  And I liked it a lot more than I thought I would.  Anora is a good queen, and while I still feel squeamish about Alistair doing the DR with Morrigan it's something everyone can live with.  Um, no pun intended.

[Kappa Neko]

The sleeping with Morrigan thing did not bother me in the slightest. Yeah, well, I felt kind of sorry for him. But I would have hated the DR just as much if it had involved something not sexual. I thought it was more funny than anything else. One final beating poor Alistair had to take in that game. Gotta love BioWare's sense of humor *g*
The DR is selfish and cowardly and it didn't fit my character. It doesn't fit Alistair's personality, either, I think. He only agrees to it because he's a love drunk idiot.
It will probably feel less wrong character-wise with my Dalish elf who's currently romancing Morrigan and far less of a self-sacrificing hero.

Modifié par Kappa Neko, 24 janvier 2011 - 11:58 .

[errant_knight]

Kappa Neko wrote...

The sleeping with Morrigan thing did not bother me in the slightest. Yeah, well, I felt kind of sorry for him. But I would have hated the DR just as much if it had involved something not sexual. I thought it was more funny than anything else. One final beating poor Alistair had to take in that game. Gotta love BioWare's sense of humor *g*
The DR is selfish and cowardly and it didn't fit my character. It doesn't fit Alistair's personality, either, I think. He only agrees to it because he's a love drunk idiot.
It will probably feel less wrong character-wise with my Dalish elf who's currently romancing Morrigan and far less of a self-sacrificing hero.

I couldn't disagree more. Yes, it's selfish--unless you happen to agree with Morrigan that destroying all the old gods might be a bad thing. One of my wardens did. Cowardly? No, I don't think so. My warden doesn't choose it because she doesn't want to die or fears death, but because she can't bear to take the risk that Alistair will. And I think it's completely within Alistair's personality to do it, in that he values frendship, love and loyalty above all things, even duty and honor. Since he's driven by those, that's saying something. He'll sacrifice his life for the warden even when he makes himself king, believing that Anora musn't have the throne. The DR is just another choice that shows those values.

Modifié par errant_knight, 24 janvier 2011 - 04:51 .

[ColaQueen]

The ritual just adds another level to the relationship, it's a sacrifice he has to make. I think Alistair must be king. Otherwise his story feels anti-climatic.

[ejoslin]

SilverSentinel wrote...

The ritual just adds another level to the relationship, it's a sacrifice he has to make. I think Alistair must be king. Otherwise his story feels anti-climatic.

I'm curious as to why.  Not to challenge you, but i never felt keeping him a gray warden was anti-climatic, especially if he wasn't hardened.  He likes being a gray warden, and he has zero training in being a king or politician of any kind.  that doesn't mean he won't be a good king, it just means that it is not the life he saw for himself.

I'm sure for HNM, making themselves king is a bit more interesting for some.

Poor Alistair for me has been used, abused, cuckolded, driven away, given true happiness, etc. in various playthroughs.  None of them felt anticlimatic; they just feel like different stories.

Edit: I really am interested in your point of view on this since it's so different from mine.  I'm not trying to argue at all.

Modifié par ejoslin, 24 janvier 2011 - 09:04 .

[Gilsa]

Kappa Neko wrote...

I have only just completed my first playthrough, so I can't really say, but it seems to me that your first character is the one you're most fond of. That's at least how I feel about my femShep. My subsequent playthroughs were just explorations of variables. Not much emotional attachment there.
So I bet romancing Alistair again with a different character will feel wrong.

LOL, that is true. I didn't like romancing Alistair on anyone other than a dwarf noble. She was my first character and I wanted to protect the specialness of my first playthrough to the point of keeping the original "bad" decisions I made (Harrowmont + sparing Loghain).

Kappa Neko wrote...

I liked the unhappy ending of romancing him with a non-human character. I played a different outcome with both surviving thanks to the DR but I didn't much like it. I had hoped accepting Morrigan's deal would result in chaos, something to make you feel bad, but nothing of the sort is mentioned in the epilogue. Witch Hunt doesn't tell us much more, either. So far there are no consequences for being selfish. That's very disappointing.

Yep. This bothered me the most -- that I couldn't close the book on my warden. Even if I decided to kill Loghain instead, I would have still said no to the ritual and without mods or knowledge of what was to come, Alistair would have died for my character. The burning question I would have had was, "Did he die for nothing?" That's why I really thought Witch Hunt would give us some measure of closure, not the story basically ending with a "too bad, so sad" retort.

Kappa Neko wrote...

Am I the only one who respects Alistair's wish not to be king? I don't particularly like Anora, but I don't think letting her continue to rule is a bad choice at all. Yes, I believe with some training Alistair makes a fine king, and yes, sometimes sacrifices are necessary, but I don't see how making him king is a necessary burden. The epilogue does not suggest that he should have been king. It says Anora turned out to be a good queen. Maybe I'll think differently about when when I actually make him king. I'll certainly do so on my second playthrough with my male Dalish Elf (I'm curious about the Morrigan romance).

Anora is a fine queen. I don't think it really matters what it says in the epilogue cards. Awakening negated Origin epilogues and the events in DA2 will no doubt negate both of those epilogue cards. It's madness.



Edit: formatting, oops

Modifié par Gilsa, 24 janvier 2011 - 11:53 .

[ColaQueen]

Perhaps anti-climatic is the wrong word. For me it just feels like a natural progression. 'Me thinks he doth protest too much'. He might like being a Grey Warden, but for me I always see the story as about making sacrifices for the greater good. It just feels to me that Alistair should be King (not saying I make him King everytime or will in future). Everything is moving him toward this point. I know you have the option to make him realise it or not.

Although there is something to be said for the tragedy of him sacrificing himself as well. Which in a way makes more sense for Awakenings because then you're not leaving him to go off on new adventures.

Modifié par SilverSentinel, 25 janvier 2011 - 04:58 .

[tehprincessJ]

I bawled the first time this happened to me. I was tired, and had only done the sacrifice thing with a male warden, so I was SO sure I knew what was going to happen. That was over a year ago, tho...