90 réponses à ce sujet

[JamieCOTC]

AwesomeName wrote...

Xeranx wrote...

Strugz wrote...

AwesomeName wrote...

I LOVE that she has masculine body language - I think it's empowering. The only time I'd like her to sit like a girl, is when she's wearing that dress. I'd also like her to be more free-spirited when she dances... Otherwise, I love how she carries herself, and I don't see why she should conform her body language to that of a girly girl.

Empowering?

That's exactly how I feel Strugz.  I find it to be counterintuitive for any woman to adopt male mannerisms in order to be accepted or taken seriously.  In fact I'm more liable to view a woman that acts like a man as weak rather than strong.  If it's empowering for a woman to adopt masculine body language then what does it say about the women who don't adopt masculine body language and raise strong men?

The thing is, I don't think femshep is deliberately trying to move in a more masculine way in order to be taken seriously - I think it's just a natural byproduct of her overall behaviour.  I.e. it doesn't strike me as an act of conformity, but rather it just so happens that she is relatively masculine for a woman.

If you can rationalize it that way fine.  Whatever works for you.  I still believe it is a technical issue.  Even though femShep has her own animations, she still needed to occupy the same space as DudeShep, therefore she walks and sits like a dude.  If that doesn't bother ypu, it doesn't bother you.  You're ahead of the game.  For me, some scenes bothered me more than others and BW has used the "resources" argument in their defense. Resources or no, if something doesn’t look right to me, it’s still a valid criticism.  Oddly enough, what got me more than the walk was the skeleton in the opening sequence.  It’s clearly a male skeleton.  Odball or not, it almost broke the game for me.

Modifié par JamieCOTC, 19 janvier 2011 - 09:52 .

[JamieCOTC]

AwesomeName wrote...

I agree and am well aware that it's a technical issue - but I think the fact that it's a "happy accident" that it "works" for some people is good thing

Cool.  We agree to agree then.  

[MsKlaussen]

She walks like she's barrel-chested, which she's not, and runs like she's carrying far more and far bulkier muscle mass than even many NFL football players, in gear. It is very obvious, and there really are no legitimate sounding rationalizations for it.

It's not believable that you can resurrect people, rebuild them from flash frozen remains or whatever, enhance their strength and quickness, but are completely unable to do anything about their ungainly, unwomanly limp-induced gait, while making it clear that retaining who she was was highest priority.

As was mentioned by the OP, there are differences in physical makeup that exert influence regardless of intent. I've never known a woman whose involuntary or even voluntary serious reaction to increased self confidence or assertiveness is to start swaggering around here and there looking to all like a caricature of John Wayne complete with shoulders so wide and arms so heavy that they pendulum. That's simply not how such personality and self awareness changes manifest themselves. I suppose a gay woman trying to act butch may do this, but I couldn't even expect it to be this exaggerated on a permanent basis in that instance.

And the run. LOL! The original Terminator ran more gender neutral than this. Most NFL linebackers do too. And they all wear gear - as much or more than soldiers (not counting 'equipment' of course) unless soldiers wear cups, thigh and hip pads, tailbone pads, knee and shin pads, etc. or in other words all kinds of stuff that should affect one's gait, but still does not produce the loping ape-like motion seen with FemShep.

As far as things being empowering because FemShep doesn't conform to the societal expectations of "normal women', that is a good thing. But just because such freedoms add to what FemShep could do does not mean they add to what she should, or would do. Because technically, there's no end to the things a woman 'could' do if she really wanted to. Will she? Is society the only thing really keeping a woman from splaying her legs wide open when she sits down, or is it something women just don't really do? Like snot rocketing.

Society does not make a woman a woman, nor does it keep a woman a woman.

Modifié par MsKlaussen, 20 janvier 2011 - 01:37 .

[Ryzaki]

...The gait as you call it is just as strange on Dude Shep. To me anyways. I don't see dudes jog the way Shep does unless they're limping.

[TexasToast712]

Play as manshep. Problem solved.

[Ryzaki]

Mezzil wrote...

Why does maleShep and other male humans cross their arms and put their weight on one for like a woman all the time?

I have no clue. I'm female but I've always found that stance uncomfortale. But they do share that animation with Miranda for some mindboggling reason.

The fact is the animation issues are for both genders but dude shep players don't mention it as often. Probably beause at the end of the day there's far more pressing complaints.

Though honestly they really need rigs that fit the skeleton and keep them exclusive for both dude and fem Shep. And for the love of ra no weird neck twists. It's like I'm watching the damn ring.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 20 janvier 2011 - 02:15 .

[Bogsnot1]

200 years ago, women rode side saddle. It was the "ladylike" thing to do. Now, anyone riding side saddle gets strange looks, if not pointed and laughed at. You dont have ladies in hooped dresses running around giving decorum lessons to you these days, do you? So why go along and put current values in a game set 200 years in the future? Unless you are saying that women are incapable of evolving emotionally and psychologically?



That said, its a game. Just be thankful they included a female option, unlike a horde of other games.

[Xeranx]

AwesomeName wrote...

The thing is, I don't think femshep is deliberately trying to move in a more masculine way in order to be taken seriously - I think it's just a natural byproduct of her overall behaviour.  I.e. it doesn't strike me as an act of conformity, but rather it just so happens that she is relatively masculine for a woman.

Ok. =)

[Maria Caliban]

Ambeth wrote...

AwesomeName wrote...

I LOVE that she has masculine body language - I think it's empowering. The only time I'd like her to sit like a girl, is when she's wearing that dress. I'd also like her to be more free-spirited when she dances like in ME1 again... Otherwise I don't see why she should conform her body language to that of a girly girl.

But when the poses are physically awkward for a woman to hold?

They aren't physically awkward for a woman to hold. They may be physically awkward for you, but presumably you rarely pose like that and so your muscles aren't used to it.

Strugz wrote...

Empowering?

A number of what we consider 'masculine' poses take up space and typically convey dominance. A number of what we consider 'feminine' poses are built around modesty.

That women sit 'knees together' came about because women were wearing dresses. Even though many women wear pants now, it's still considered more feminine.

Modifié par Maria Caliban, 20 janvier 2011 - 02:28 .

[JuicElawl]

Ryzaki wrote...

JuicElawl wrote...

ME3 needs a cutscene where FemShep scratches her non existent balls.

So she's just scratch her lady bit instead? That place can itch you know

well, if they use the exact same animation, her hand would be scratching at air, due to lack of balls.

unless femshep's "lady bits" hang lower than maleshep's balls. then i question whether femshep is really female.

[Hathur]

The problem isn't that femshep doesn't have a "girly" or feminine gait.. it's that she walks as if she's a 230 pound body builder with very large testicles swinging free.

Males and females have different frame structure and we have subtle but noticeable differences in the way we walk.... no, this does not mean femshep should sway her hips side to side like some runway model... instead, grab an average sized woman of the street - point her in a direction and ask her to walk in a way she feels is normal / comfortable... and observe the movement... do the same with a male and observe... you'll notice general differences. Femshep should walk "normally"... as she did in ME1 basically.

Even maleshep doesn't walk correctly (he did in ME1.. as did femshep).... Male Shep walks as if he's 50 lbs heavier than he actually is and once again, has krogan sized testicles (ok.. maybe he does, I dunno).

However, these problems weren't because Bioware didn't see it.. it was caused because of how armor fits / looks in ME2 and they had to animate around it and they didn't have time / resources or care enough to adjust animations to look proper due to it.

The armor in ME2 sits very differently on the frame of the character than it did in ME1 (look at the Onyx armor in the intro video.. heavy armor from ME1... and compare it later when you get the new armor after the intro.. the new armor is much "thicker" model-wise and needs a lot more space between and around the limbs to fit.. hence the animation problems).

Modifié par Hathur, 20 janvier 2011 - 02:52 .

[Ryzaki]

@Hathur: That's exactly the problem neither gender really has proper animations.

[Ambeth]

iOnlySignIn wrote...

I consider the problem from another angle. I think the 3-D model for FemShep does not contain enough *MUSCLES*. Hell, my FemShep is a Vanguard beating people to pulp everyday with her FIST of death and her CLAYMORE shotgun which shatters a normal human's arm. And she looks like a twig. Like Miranda, who is genetically engineered to look like a twig, or Jack, who grew up malnutritioned to look like a twig.

Seriously, what my FemShep needs is not a more feminine gait. It's MUSCLES. Something that makes her arm holding that giant shotgun more believable. Not tiny matchstick as it is. She doesn't have to look or walk like She-Hulk, but currently as it is she'd be blown away on a windy day in San Francisco.

ME3 needs to have customizeable body just because of this.

 Which reminded me of the scene in LotSB where Shep blocks the SB's rush (or was it a sheild bash... now I can't remember) and the best way I can describe the cognative dissonance is: it was like a nine year old holding back a rushing body builder.   Yeah, that's totally going to work.

[JuicElawl]

Ambeth wrote...

iOnlySignIn wrote...

I consider the problem from another angle. I think the 3-D model for FemShep does not contain enough *MUSCLES*. Hell, my FemShep is a Vanguard beating people to pulp everyday with her FIST of death and her CLAYMORE shotgun which shatters a normal human's arm. And she looks like a twig. Like Miranda, who is genetically engineered to look like a twig, or Jack, who grew up malnutritioned to look like a twig.

Seriously, what my FemShep needs is not a more feminine gait. It's MUSCLES. Something that makes her arm holding that giant shotgun more believable. Not tiny matchstick as it is. She doesn't have to look or walk like She-Hulk, but currently as it is she'd be blown away on a windy day in San Francisco.

ME3 needs to have customizeable body just because of this.

 Which reminded me of the scene in LotSB where Shep blocks the SB's rush (or was it a sheild bash... now I can't remember) and the best way I can describe the cognative dissonance is: it was like a nine year old holding back a rushing body builder.   Yeah, that's totally going to work.

when femshep was revived by the lazarus project, they replaced her human muscle tissue with chimpanzee muscle tissue.

[ReiSilver]

PrimalEden wrote...

It was nice to see our female Shepard in a ladylike pose for once in LOTSB. Usually just shrug off the general masculine poses as being part of the military, but yes I would LOVE to have Shepard not sit with her legs so damn far apart nor to cross her leg over like a guy's, I don't know any women who find that seating position comfortable. Ah well, at least it looks like Bioware's paying attention.

I'm a woman and I sit with my leg crossed 'like a guy' all the time. I liked sitting cross legged as a kid and that translates well to the leg crossed at ankle, for a long time crossing my legs 'lady like' was quite uncomfortable, something I had to learn to do and I never do it unless I'm actively thinking about it.
My main Shep is Earthborn and anything too 'feminine' comes off as her... I'm not sure, trying too hard? Putting an effort into acting against her normal movement?
I just hope they don't go too far in the other direction is all I'm saying.

[Fiery Phoenix]

[ReiSilver]

Fiery Phoenix wrote...

now am I the only one that thought man-shep looked a bit off in his pose? He looks like he should be leaning against a wall or the back of a chair to me...