464 réponses à ce sujet

[Nissa_Red]

Said differently, a good business practice would be :

• people buying the game get 100% of its estimated value
• people preordering the game get 100% of its estimated value + something else of value

not

• people buying the game get 90% of its estimated value
• people preordering the game get 100% of its estimated value

Modifié par Nissa_Red, 20 janvier 2011 - 10:39 .

[Deadmac]

Nissa_Red wrote...
If one sets aside the Steam users (of which I am) for a moment, who have their own issues with the Signature edition, what if I don't wish to pre-order DA2 on the premise that I don't want to support EA's current "hit and run" marketing tactics...

As someone who agrees with you, I am waiting a good year or two before buying the game. After everyone recovers from the hype, "Dragon Age II" will start to fall in price. According to everyone I have talked to, "Dragon Age: Origins" has been out since 2009. I just bought my copy a few weeks ago, and I am glad that I held back from buy the dlc. After someone game me the stand-alone sets for x-mass, I noticed there was an 'Ultimate Edition'. Instead of paying through the nose for the dlc and expansion, I bought everything for 50% off compared to what everyone else did. 50% for the main game, expansion, and all the dlcs. After I did some online digging, I found a Dragon Age Wiki site that had all the 'bonus' elements. So, I didn't miss a single promotional piece. I got everything for half the price, and all I had to do was wait.

Just wait the hype out. BioWare will eventually reduce the price, and then they will sell everything in a cool bundled edition.

Modifié par Deadmac, 20 janvier 2011 - 10:42 .

[AlanC9]

Nissa_Red wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

[*]So rewarding people for pre-ordering is OK if the rewards are worthless?

Of course, not.

Rewarding the ones at the expense of the others, however, is a whole another business, in my opinion, a bad one at that.

I didn't feel "antagonized" by the pre-order bonuses of Dragon Age:Origins, Mass Effect 1 or 2, by none of the pre-order bonuses of any other games (The Witcher, for example), none of which I had pre-ordered.

I pre-ordered quite some other games in the past however, precisely for their bonuses, so it's not like it is not possible to strike a good compromise... somewhere.

The red line for me is a party character, and I understand it may just be a personal opinion, because for me, again : the whole point of a Bioware game = party characters!

[*]So Bioware can never make any more of what you like about a Bioware game than what they put into the initial released game?

[Morroian]

Nissa_Red wrote...

[*]make game as fast as possible
[*]force people to pre-order

Its a business decision, they are a company out to make money, no conspiracy there. They have been up front with everything that they're doing.

[AlanC9]

Nissa_Red wrote...

Said differently, a good business practice would be :

• people buying the game get 100% of its estimated value
• people preordering the game get 100% of its estimated value + something else of value

not

• people buying the game get 90% of its estimated value
• people preordering the game get 100% of its estimated value

That's completely incoherent. The estimated value depends solely on how you decide to do the estimating. If you decide that Sebastian is part of the 100%, then DAO is case 2. If you think that Sebastian isn't part of the 100%, then DAO is in case 1.

Your only reason to put Sebastian in the 100% is that you really wish he was.

Edit: but rationality aside, if a lot of people have this feeling then there might be a problem with the business mode, sure.

Modifié par AlanC9, 20 janvier 2011 - 10:47 .

[Il Divo]

Nissa_Red wrote...

Said differently, a good business practice would be :

• people buying the game get 100% of its estimated value
  
• people preordering the game get 100% of its estimated value + something else of value

not

• people buying the game get 90% of its estimated value
  
• people preordering the game get 100% of its estimated value

But this presupposes that you are getting 90% of its estimated value and that they intended Sebastian as anything other than optional. If Sebastian is treated as an 'addition', not part of the estimated value, then you are still receiving 100% of its estimated value. By this logic, Bioware could not offer extra weapons/armor to those who preorder. I can just claim that all of those dlc items were part of the estimated value.

Modifié par Il Divo, 20 janvier 2011 - 10:48 .

[Morroian]

Nissa_Red wrote...

Said differently, a good business practice would be :

• people buying the game get 100% of its estimated value
• people preordering the game get 100% of its estimated value + something else of value

not

• people buying the game get 90% of its estimated value
• people preordering the game get 100% of its estimated value

You're wrong, you buy the game you get 100% of the value. Anything else is gravy. If Sebastian wasn't done as DLC then he wouldn't have been done at all. Dunno why people want to keep harping on about this it completely invalidates any arguments you make.

[Ryzaki]

What boggles my mind is why there's money being placed on DLC while the game is still being developed in the first place.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 20 janvier 2011 - 10:52 .

[The Elder King]

Actually, I find one thing that I really DON'T like. The armour we can get if we purchase Dead Space 2. Good for me that I don't like much the armour.

[megaz635]

Because people whined that you were not a warden and complained about the graphics and gameplay looking "Worse". (Their eyes have been stabbed if they think that.)

[addiction21]

Ryzaki wrote...

What boggles my mind is why there's money being placed on DLC while the game is still being developed in the first place.

Well from those developers that have answered this in the past (and thats all we have to go on so call reasons or excuses or just being greedy) is that the DLC's for DA2 are on a seperate budget and timetable. DA2's budget is there and set. This is not money that would of been included or has been siphoned out from DA2 but an entirely seperate thing.

As for why this is being done in development? To get it out there for those that want it day 1 and to do it when its fresh in the mind of many of the gamers. Again call it whatever you want but this is pretty much the jist of what the devs have said in the past.

[Morroian]

Ryzaki wrote...

What boggles my mind is why there's money being placed on DLC while the game is still being developed in the first place.

I don't see why when you see used versions of the game being sold side by side with the new version at a cheaper price.

[Nissa_Red]

[quote]Meltemph wrote...
[quote]make game as fast as possible[/quote]
Assumption[/quote]
Any software company nowadays has the "reach deadline ASAP!" mantra, game editors are no exception to that rule. If I can't convince you, please go out and read some websites, like Gamasutra, or better yet, make some friends or work for that industry.

[quote][quote]force people to pre-order[/quote]
Blatantly false.[/quote]
Of course, it is false, unless you wish to play the full game if you pay the full price, like me.

A game without the whole palette of party characters  isn't a full Bioware game to me. Like it wouldn't if a whole lore significant area was missing at release. I believe not to be a singularity in Bioware's community in stating such a feeling. You won't manage to make me think otherwise.

[quote][quote]release buggy game[/quote]
Assumption[/quote]
Err, not really no. Bioware has always been releasing buggy games. Quite like any AAA game producer, mind you, Blizzard included. Unlike now however, Bioware actually cared to fix most of its bugs in timely fashion.

[quote][quote]Should I pay full price for a game that I couldn't enjoy it to the fullest at that time, because Bioware games are ALL about party characters, and have always been ?[/quote]
Enjoyment is subjective. If you feel you can't enjoy a game because it has characters as DLC, then don't buy the game, not seeing the problem. By the sounds of it though, you would rather them not make a DLC character and just leave him out.[/quote]
Fair enough.

I wouldn't be here if I could convince Bioware to actually change their mind about fixing their games before releasing the sequels. Then, if I didn't like DA2, I could still play, and enjoy myself with DA:O, or Mass Effect, in a fashion that customers should be able to enjoy their purchases, right ?

[quote][quote]I couldn't care less about a enchanted/overpowered weapon/armor/cloak, or even a secret hideout/storage camp bonus to reward people pre-ordering. Here, Bioware is leaving out a party character from start, if one doesn't do so.
They haven't done that before with any of their games. They do it with DA2, and that isn't conspiracy.[/quote]
[quote]They did it with DAO, only difference was that all new games came with the game, but it only came with the game because of the delay.[/quote][/quote]

I don't think there has been a single copy of DA:O shipping without Shale included. Besides, even if it was meant to be a DLC to be purchased at a later time, I don't care.

I don't complain about hypothetical situations. I got my copy with Shale. I was happy. Bioware won't hear but praise about Shale from me.

As I said before, the "Sebastian" DLC is a whole another case for me. It is not even my main priority in voicing my concerns in this thread.

Modifié par Nissa_Red, 20 janvier 2011 - 11:10 .

[Meltemph]

 

There's a market for used PC games?  

Ya, most know it as utorrent.  

[Ryzaki]

Morroian wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

What boggles my mind is why there's money being placed on DLC while the game is still being developed in the first place.

I don't see why when you see used versions of the game being sold side by side with the new version at a cheaper price.

Yes because the used video game industry and a company who makes games are the same people.


I'm mostly confused because those working on the DLC could be working on the game itself.

[Tezzajh]

my complaint is that its not dragon age 2 and not a sequal, it doesnt carry on from dragon age 1, new characters, new locations, new enemies no releveance to dragon age 1 apart from you can import choices which is a pointless feature why would you want to know about things which you cant see and having no meaning to the game such as killing the elves instead of werewolves ?

[Ryzaki]

addiction21 wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

What boggles my mind is why there's money being placed on DLC while the game is still being developed in the first place.

Well from those developers that have answered this in the past (and thats all we have to go on so call reasons or excuses or just being greedy) is that the DLC's for DA2 are on a seperate budget and timetable. DA2's budget is there and set. This is not money that would of been included or has been siphoned out from DA2 but an entirely seperate thing.

As for why this is being done in development? To get it out there for those that want it day 1 and to do it when its fresh in the mind of many of the gamers. Again call it whatever you want but this is pretty much the jist of what the devs have said in the past.

...

Something about that smells.

[Tezzajh]

Ryzaki wrote...

Morroian wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

What boggles my mind is why there's money being placed on DLC while the game is still being developed in the first place.

I don't see why when you see used versions of the game being sold side by side with the new version at a cheaper price.

Yes because the used video game industry and a company who makes games are the same people.


I'm mostly confused because those working on the DLC could be working on the game itself.

agreed anything which is dlc now should be put in the game anyway, considering it hasnt been released yet

[StuartMarshall]

I bought:



DA:O

DA:A

Every DLC except Feastday



And I really enjoyed the game, beating it numerous times.



But the previews for DA2 and the direction it has taken (Dragon Effect - now I love Mass Effect but it is its own game, I bought DA2 as a fan of Torment, Baldur's Gate, and similar games that DA2 moves far away from again) and also seeing an extra character "for sale" as DLC before the game is even released has finalized my decision to wait for the GOTY Edition or a major Steam (where the Signature Edition wasn't even offered, despite being the central point for PC gaming now) sale on DA2.



Witcher 2 gets my money for now.

[Morroian]

Inarborat wrote...

Morroian wrote...

I don't see why when you see used versions of the game being sold side by side with the new version at a cheaper price.

There's a market for used PC games? 

I guess its more console versions but you see it for all versions at Electronics Boutique. Its one thing to have separate second hand stores but to sell both side by side is a bit much.

[Il Divo]

Tezzajh wrote...

agreed anything which is dlc now should be put in the game anyway, considering it hasnt been released yet

So how exactly does Bioware go about offering incentive for its preorders? Either they give exclusive dlc to those who preorder (in which case, those who choose not to preorder lose out) or the incentives they offer are so small/insignificant that they have little net impact, like dlc weapons/armor (in which case Bioware loses out).

Modifié par Il Divo, 20 janvier 2011 - 11:16 .

[Morroian]

Tezzajh wrote...

my complaint is that its not dragon age 2 and not a sequal, it doesnt carry on from dragon age 1, 

Oh joy this argument again. A sequel doesn't have to use the same characters. Its a continuation of the world. 

[Meltemph]

I'm mostly confused because those working on the DLC could be working on the game itself.

So you are saying that you believe that the company would instead of just not having that dlc, would increase the budget of the game? Based on what? That content would not exist if not for this venue.

Something about that smells.

Even if they held back content, how are they in the wrong? They made the product they decide how to sell it. If you don't think the product is worth it w/o the add-ons then you either don't buy it or wait till the price is acceptable to you.