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Why so much hate for Dragon Age 2?


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#426
Brockololly

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slimgrin wrote...
...they are deliberately targeting a younger age group than they were with Dragon Age: Origins. This does indeed worry me. DA:O was essentially a game for young adults and adults. It wasn't a game for kids. I want adult subject matter, adult dialog, with adult decisions; I want to be confronted with dilemmas that make me draw from my experience of being older than 16.


Don't worry Slimgrin. You'll only need to start worrying that DA2 is being catered to 14 year old males once EA starts releasing "Your Mom Hates Dragon Age 2" ads.


You stay classy EA.

#427
Blastback

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Brockololly wrote...

slimgrin wrote...
...they are deliberately targeting a younger age group than they were with Dragon Age: Origins. This does indeed worry me. DA:O was essentially a game for young adults and adults. It wasn't a game for kids. I want adult subject matter, adult dialog, with adult decisions; I want to be confronted with dilemmas that make me draw from my experience of being older than 16.


Don't worry Slimgrin. You'll only need to start worrying that DA2 is being catered to 14 year old males once EA starts releasing "Your Mom Hates Dragon Age 2" ads.


You stay classy EA.

*headdesk*

#428
Morroian

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Brockololly wrote...

Don't worry Slimgrin. You'll only need to start worrying that DA2 is being catered to 14 year old males once EA starts releasing "Your Mom Hates Dragon Age 2" ads.


You stay classy EA.


What like the DAO lingerie ad :o

#429
Il Divo

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In Exile wrote...

That shouldn't matter if you like the feature. Again - if you like the feature in itself, then changing from a feature you like to another feature you like should not lead to an overall calculus of "Not Buying".


I enjoy fps games and rpgs. That does not mean I want Half-Life taking on role-playing elements. A Half-Life is a game whose style is only made possibly when played from the first person perspective. I may like RPGs, but the inclusion of these mechanics means I am no longer playing Half-Life as it was originally designed.

But it's a terrible analogy. It pretends the features are consumed toghether instead of being separable.


They are consumed together. How exactly does one go about consuming 'only' the silent protagonist?

But that isn't how the reasoning goes. No one says "DA2 sucks because PC VO doesn't work with full-party control."

People say things like "how dare DA2 change its direction and get features xyz"; "I'm going to buy the Witcher 2 (which has features xyz and takes the further than DA2) instead!"


But no feature is designed completely independent of all others. People enjoyed playing Dragon Age:Origins based on certain criteria that the game met. One of these was the silent protagonist. When that changed, some were turned off, despite the fact that they enjoyed voice-acting. They look at games like Mass Effect/the Witcher and say "Hey, that's why I play Mass Effect/the Witcher, not why I play Dragon Age". This ends up segregating the fanbase. It doesn't matter if they like both, because to them part of the experience of playing Dragon Age is in the silent protagonist + party dynamic. Remove the silent protagonist and it is no longer DA:O, but something else.  

Modifié par Il Divo, 21 janvier 2011 - 02:34 .


#430
Kaellanen

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@errant_knight: Cheers my friend! Who says you can't talk on the internet with out starting flame wars and telling "Your Mother!" insults, eh?



@slimgrin: What's this? You mean to say that games can actually have mature topics that force you to make real world decisions that have no right-or-wrong answer? I am shocked I tell you! Next you'll be telling me they have comic books for adults too. The madness!



In all seriousness however, I think most of Bioware's games have had adult subject matter. Granted, DA:O has been the best of the lot, but as for back as KOTOR, Bioware has been injecting "adult" topics into their games. I'm curious, with the possible exception of Bethesda, who do you think does a better job at this than Bioware?

#431
errant_knight

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Kaellanen wrote...

@errant_knight: Cheers my friend! Who says you can't talk on the internet with out starting flame wars and telling "Your Mother!" insults, eh?
 


*Suspects that Kaellanen is also Canadian...*

#432
slimgrin

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Brockololly wrote...

slimgrin wrote...
...they are deliberately targeting a younger age group than they were with Dragon Age: Origins. This does indeed worry me. DA:O was essentially a game for young adults and adults. It wasn't a game for kids. I want adult subject matter, adult dialog, with adult decisions; I want to be confronted with dilemmas that make me draw from my experience of being older than 16.


Don't worry Slimgrin. You'll only need to start worrying that DA2 is being catered to 14 year old males once EA starts releasing "Your Mom Hates Dragon Age 2" ads.


You stay classy EA.


That retarded little piece can only be outdone by this gem:


Modifié par slimgrin, 21 janvier 2011 - 02:41 .


#433
Kaellanen

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Ha ha ha, nay my friend, if I were to claim any nationality, it would be Cimmerian. I have have shirt that says "Everything I need to know in life, I learned from Conan the Barbarian"! And one of the most important rules I learned is to speak politely, because you never know when the other person might have a huge honking battle-axe!

#434
DPB

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slimgrin wrote...

You'll notice how nicely I worded this, ser Laidlaw. Such a polite post....how can you not respond? :innocent:.


He's not at work this week, he's away in Europe in a press event or something.

#435
Piecake

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slimgrin wrote...

Brockololly wrote...

slimgrin wrote...
...they are deliberately targeting a younger age group than they were with Dragon Age: Origins. This does indeed worry me. DA:O was essentially a game for young adults and adults. It wasn't a game for kids. I want adult subject matter, adult dialog, with adult decisions; I want to be confronted with dilemmas that make me draw from my experience of being older than 16.


Don't worry Slimgrin. You'll only need to start worrying that DA2 is being catered to 14 year old males once EA starts releasing "Your Mom Hates Dragon Age 2" ads.


You stay classy EA.


That retarded little piece can only be outdone by this gem:





I so want to play that game now *Insert sacrasm icon here*

#436
sevalaricgirl

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Poaches wrote...

It could simply be that Bioware wishes to move towards a console centric market. They switched to using the unreal engine this time around. And Epic Games had said in more ways than one they want to focus their tech towards consoles and shed the PC market.

I'll just assume all these changes are streamlining to be more console friendly.


Well if that's the case, they'll lose a large portion of their customers.  Many of us do not do consoles.   We are PC users because we can mod our little hearts out on pcs. 

#437
Kaellanen

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I will admit I want to....how was it phrased?....be "kicked in the face with awesome!" I have no idea what that actually means, but it sounds like it should be the chapter heading in an autobiogrphy!

#438
DPB

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sevalaricgirl wrote...

Poaches wrote...

It could simply be that Bioware wishes to move towards a console centric market. They switched to using the unreal engine this time around. And Epic Games had said in more ways than one they want to focus their tech towards consoles and shed the PC market.

I'll just assume all these changes are streamlining to be more console friendly.


Well if that's the case, they'll lose a large portion of their customers.  Many of us do not do consoles.   We are PC users because we can mod our little hearts out on pcs. 


As Morroian pointed out, it's false - DA2 isn't using Unreal, it's using an upgraded version of the Eclipse engine that DAO used.

Modifié par dbankier, 21 janvier 2011 - 02:50 .


#439
Huntress

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I think Bioware is a great company even if I .. how to say it QQ about the changes, some are not that important at all.



What bothers me However is that I do NOT like my character/s to stop in a dead roads. You see I have been playing Diablo 1 and 2 on top of that world of warcraft for 6 years, I have ALL of the collector Editions from WOW, why is that? My characters never stoped, they keep adventuring and me having fun with them.



The moment I saw what they were doing and saying about DAO, that killed my urges to buy anything from them. I knew the game was about thedas, but NOT about removing/trashing your character and tellin: we will give you a better one..WELL I don't want a BLOODLY better one, I want my old character with voice or mute to keep going. They are warden's is true but, as

Wynne said: they are people protectors.



Now I put that out of my chest phew hehe I feel much better, I hope DA2 is great, I might play it, won't be by pre-order, won't be by first midnight sale, will be rented or when is cheap dirt. Sorry for the QQ!

#440
Brockololly

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slimgrin wrote...
That retarded little piece can only be outdone by this gem:



.....
.....
:mellow:
.....
.....
:huh:
....
....
:blink:

I...am ....Yeah. I'm without words. Worry not kiddos, that right there is clearly a mature rated game. Nothing says mature like "Dick ******."

Modifié par Brockololly, 21 janvier 2011 - 03:01 .


#441
Piecake

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Brockololly wrote...

slimgrin wrote...
That retarded little piece can only be outdone by this gem:



.....
.....
:mellow:
.....
.....
:huh:
....
....
:blink:

I...am ....Yeah. I'm without words. Worry not kiddos, that right there is clearly a mature rated game. Nothing says mature like "Dick ******."


Now I am picturing how that would work in my head.  Its quite disturbing, and I hate you for it

#442
Wishpig

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Brockololly wrote...

slimgrin wrote...
...they are deliberately targeting a younger age group than they were with Dragon Age: Origins. This does indeed worry me. DA:O was essentially a game for young adults and adults. It wasn't a game for kids. I want adult subject matter, adult dialog, with adult decisions; I want to be confronted with dilemmas that make me draw from my experience of being older than 16.


Don't worry Slimgrin. You'll only need to start worrying that DA2 is being catered to 14 year old males once EA starts releasing "Your Mom Hates Dragon Age 2" ads.


You stay classy EA.


HAHAHA!

I saw this video up at ign, but didn't watch it, you can tell what the purpose of it is by the title... it's an add to attract younger teens.

Then you posted it and I HAD to check it out.

OMG, it's still a stupid, cheesy, and underhanded concept, but it is pretty damn funny to see how those moms overreacted. At least two were almost in tears. Terrible concept, but pretty good reactions.

And to those who think DA2 is being targeted at a younger audiance. Ya, I can agree with that. As opposed to DA:O being targeted to us old school RPG fans and BG fans. But I don't think it's being targeted to a younger audiance in a way that will hurt the experiance. Besides, the story looks as strong as any bioware game, and thats what I really care about!

Modifié par Wishpig, 21 janvier 2011 - 03:09 .


#443
Rockworm503

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Stay out of the steam forums.

The Dragon Age sub forums is nothing but hate for this game.

Its amazing that so much hate can be spewed out on a game thats not even out yet.

Its like everyone there has forgotten about every other game that Bioware has made.

#444
Brockololly

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Piecake wrote...
Now I am picturing how that would work in my head.  Its quite disturbing, and I hate you for it


I believe this is indeed one time you can unequivocally blame EA.

Modifié par Brockololly, 21 janvier 2011 - 03:13 .


#445
TheMadCat

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Piecake wrote...

slimgrin wrote...

Brockololly wrote...

slimgrin wrote...
...they are deliberately targeting a younger age group than they were with Dragon Age: Origins. This does indeed worry me. DA:O was essentially a game for young adults and adults. It wasn't a game for kids. I want adult subject matter, adult dialog, with adult decisions; I want to be confronted with dilemmas that make me draw from my experience of being older than 16.


Don't worry Slimgrin. You'll only need to start worrying that DA2 is being catered to 14 year old males once EA starts releasing "Your Mom Hates Dragon Age 2" ads.


You stay classy EA.


That retarded little piece can only be outdone by this gem:





I so want to play that game now *Insert sacrasm icon here*


EA has got one of the strangest marketing teams in any business, though I think that's their point. They create some of the dumbest and most ridiculous ad's and promos even to the point of making themselves look bad. But it stands out, get's peoples attentions, get's people looking at the product, and ultimately that's the point of a marketing team. EA's never really been big on the whole standards and class thing, may as well carry it over to your marketing.

#446
errant_knight

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Kaellanen wrote...

Ha ha ha, nay my friend, if I were to claim any nationality, it would be Cimmerian. I have have shirt that says "Everything I need to know in life, I learned from Conan the Barbarian"! And one of the most important rules I learned is to speak politely, because you never know when the other person might have a huge honking battle-axe!

Ah, see it was the 'eh' that made me think you might be a fellow Canuck, not the good manners. Although that did nothing to negate the impression. ;)

#447
slimgrin

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Rockworm503 wrote...

Its like everyone there has forgotten about every other game that Bioware has made.


Because they have the perception that Bioware has forgotten this too.

#448
Wishpig

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slimgrin wrote...

Brockololly wrote...

slimgrin wrote...
...they are deliberately targeting a younger age group than they were with Dragon Age: Origins. This does indeed worry me. DA:O was essentially a game for young adults and adults. It wasn't a game for kids. I want adult subject matter, adult dialog, with adult decisions; I want to be confronted with dilemmas that make me draw from my experience of being older than 16.


Don't worry Slimgrin. You'll only need to start worrying that DA2 is being catered to 14 year old males once EA starts releasing "Your Mom Hates Dragon Age 2" ads.


You stay classy EA.


That retarded little piece can only be outdone by this gem:





Nah, I would say Bulletstorm is better... think of Bulletstorm and Deadpsace 2 as two diffrent dudes trying to sell a kid cigarettes.

Bulletstorm guy would just walk up to the kid and say, "Hey you little pu**y! Smoke this! Ya it will give you cancer, but it makes you look cool! Helps you pick up chicks who smoke too! DDDOOOOOO ITTTTT YEAH! TO THE MAX!"

Deadspace 2 guy would sneak up behind a kid and say, "Hey their tiger. Do you know what this is? This is called a candy stick! It tastes like all your favorite candies rolled into one! Plus it cures cancer!"

#449
Emissary of the Dark

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:ph34r:[inapprorpiate comments removed]:ph34r:

Modifié par Stanley Woo, 21 janvier 2011 - 04:00 .


#450
Emissary of the Dark

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SandyWB wrote...

By the time Dragon Age 2 was announced and we all saw the first early-stage development screenshots I was still 'high' from playing Origins. I'm guessing 99% of the people on these forums loved Dragon Age: Origins when it came out, I was one of them. "Finally, a game that is the spiritual successor of Baldur's Gate I and II!", "Party based combat and a great long epic story!", "Choices that matter, and the ability to change the world!" Those were just one of the things I would read and hear people say, and I agreed 100%. I loved Origins, I really did, I loved it back in 2009, and I still think it's a great game. However, things do evolve and change.
 
I've played pretty much all Bioware games except for Jade Empire and Sonic (just to get the 'go play game X and you'll change your opinion to my opinion' - thing out of the way). So I think i have a fairly solid place to start out from when looking at the direction Bioware is taking the Dragon Age franchise.

As a starting point I think the various problems people have with Dragon Age 2 can be boiled down to either visual or gameplay-related.

About the visuals: I'm one among those who were very worried about the change in visuals from Origins to the sequel, especially after only having seen the first plain ugly screenshots when the game was first announced. Sure, I knew the finished game would look much better, but when the only thing you have to to by are screenshots, you tend to base your sole stance on said screenshots. However, much as I had anticipated, now that the game is almost out, the visuals look great, and while some might not agree, I believe the general consensus is that DA2 is shaping up to be e better looking game than Origins. And I was one of those who actually thought Origins looked really great visually. The art style has obviously changed from game 1 to game 2, but that's not necessarily a bad thing. Fans have a tendency to want things to always stay the same, but if you don't allow games to evolve, you'll be stuck with the same thing forever, which in my mind isn't a good thing. While I do have a few issues about the new elves design, it's in no way a deal-breaker for me. I think alot of people are like me when it comes to Dragon Age 2 and its visuals and art-style, it looked kind of odd at first, and since it was different it was also scary, but now we are warming up to it. Overall, I get a feeling that people either like or dislike the new art-style, but very few feel that it's a deal breaker.

Also, are we really sure companions will only have one set of outfits? I'm fairly certain I've seen Aveline in both leather and in full plat mail. Either way, I think it will add to companions that they have a distinct look to them. In Origins I was kind of sad that I couldn't keep Alistair in the armor you first encounter him in. It just suited him so well. I'm looking forward to a system where my companions have a distinct look and won't just use my hand-me-downs.

About the gameplay: The biggest fear people had in the beginning seems to have been that the gameplay was 'dumbed down'. I'm not very fond of the term, as it implies that people who don't like the tactical combat would be inferior or not as smart as those who do. Some enjoy playing their games like a chess game, other's like a faster approach to battle. It has been said and shown more than once that both styles are supported, and that you can switch back and forth in any combination you like. Personally, that was how I did it in Origins. Easier battles I just let the game play out, with me only controlling my main character, while I played it more tactical in the bigger boss battles. I think it is great that they are giving people an option to choose how to play. Bioware isn't making you play either way, it's completely up to you. That they have made the items easier to identify and helped label them as junk or with stars or whatever can only be a good thing right? You had tiers in Origins, and you quickly learned what to keep/pick up, and what not to keep. What's wrong with helping people get a grasp of this easier/quicker? Also, I get that some people like friendly fire, but as they have said, it's still in, but on the highest difficulty level. So if you want to feel good about yourself and brag about playing the game with friendly fire, I'm guessing you're doing it for the challenge. Well, then step up to the plate and try it on Nightmare/Hard (whatever they are calling it now).

Another common complaint seems to be the 'over the top' animations. Personally, I agree that I would have liked more mundane and realistic animations, but then again that was because I played mostly warriors in Origins, and warriors were treated very well in the animations department in Origins. Rogues and Mages however, were not. Mages got very few animations since their staff was their main weapon, and nothing really differentiated Rogues from warriors, hence that they only looked like lighter armored warriors. I believe the animations were also a side-effect of the story being a framed narrative told by Varric. He is going to exaggerate alot, and that includes the fighting. However, while the animations are a bit flashy, they also made sure to make the combat feel faster and more responsive, something that Origins in all fairness needed a fix off. The combat in Origins, while fun the first time around, felt very repetitive after a short while.

The whole 'only one race' and 'voiced main character' feels like it has been covered time and time again, so I'll just leave it at this. They decided to tell a more personal story, that requires you to narrow down who and what the main character is. I know some will agree, but both from a game-developing view and a story-telling view, I believe Bioware made the right choice here.

The conversation wheel is actually something I don't think will have much impact on the game whatsoever. I could ALWAYS tell what my responses would be like in Mass Effect, just as easily as I could in Dragon Age: Origins, and I'm guessing DA2 will be even easier (if possible), because of the icons indicating the tone of your answer.

I don't believe that alot of fans are worried that we will in any way get a worse, or less engaging story than in Origins. After all, Bioware is all about story. Likewise, music and voice-acting seems to be covered. Locations in game, quests and progression all seem to work similarly to Origins, although the skills and talents have been changed somewhat (for the better I believe).

Also, i don't think it's fair to talk about Bioware fixing Origins when talking about Dragon Age 2. Maybe there will be future patches for Origins, you have no way of knowing this, but bashing a game that isn't even out because the predecessor had some bugs doesn't feel right. When games are linear, bugs are easier to spot and correct, but with games like Dragon Age, where the possibilities are near endless, some bugs are bound to happen.

I'm not sure I've touched on everything that some of the forum goers dislike about the game, but all in all, I believe that not much has changed from Origins that would merit such an outburst from some fans. My advice is to play the game first, I'm pretty sure you'll still enjoy it. If you still don't like it, make yourselves heard so that Dragon Age 3 can be the game you want. Who knows, maybe Dragon Age 2 is the game you want, you just don't know it yet.


This guy is David Gaider in disguise LOL