193 réponses à ce sujet

[ObserverStatus]

XxDeonxX wrote...

In Dragon Age Origins upon asking Sten whether or not I can trust him after recruiting him he told me that the Qunari are not a people of false promises and that they never go back on their word.

Ferelden, Orlais, Rivain, The Free Marches, Nevarra, Antiva, The Anderfels.. Pretty much every human nation except The Tevinter Imperium signed The Llomerryn Accord with the Qunari stating they would not invade or attack each other anymore. The Invasion of Kirkwall by the Qunari has broken The Llomerryn Accord. This can only mean that Sten is a LIAR! and the Qunari are LIARS! a people of false promise and lies. With this Metagaming knowledge, in origins you should kill sten in your next plathrough because you cant trust him.

Anyway so why did the Qunari break the Llomerryn Accord when they are supposed to be about Honor and keeping their word.. Not Liars?

Oh no! Sten is a liar!  Just like Chris Priestly!

Chris Priestly wrote...
That is indeed his tail. Subby loses 10 ME points for not knowing krogan biology.

I'm
also a bit mistified at teh thread in general. I mean, everyone has "a
poop vent". If this somehow confuses you, please send me 10 bucks and
I shall send you a copy of the acclaimed kids book "Everykrogan poops".



../../../../images/forum/emoticons/devil.png

We're still waiting.

Modifié par bobobo878, 20 janvier 2011 - 12:08 .

[Malanek]

Maria, thanks for that.



XxDeonxX, you can't claim they have violated a treaty if you don't know what the treaty states.

[RinpocheSchnozberry]

First of all: The Qun is bull****. It's a method of organizing people in order to use them to further the goals of their leaders. You can bet your ass, some place along the line among the qunari, there's a "curtain" or social wall beyond which the real decisions are made. And it is ugly in there. It probably looks more like the Landsmeet than it does a Chantry social. You can bet that as they were signing the Llomerryn Accords, the qunari masters where thinking up ways to get around them once they were ready to go back on the offensive.

Do I have proof? Nope. It just wouldn't ring very true to the tone of the setting if alone out of all the races and religions in the world, the qunari were pure and honest in their devotions. I'm not buying it. As was pointed out... all the other races are packed full of scheming ****s... Why should the qunari be any different?

If this really is a full out qunari invasion, I'm willing to bet they have a conquest based economy. That means that when conquest stops... The economy falls apart. ;-) But awful (and pleasingly!) snarky if the qunari were motivated by a powerful recession to invade a patchwork nation, eh?

Modifié par RinpocheSchnozberry, 20 janvier 2011 - 12:15 .

[HiroVoid]

Found it!

(Alistair as king)

* Alistair: So I suppose once I'm actually king I could end up in negotiations with the qunari one day.

* Sten: My people do not negotiate.

* Alistair: What do you mean? They negotiated a peace treaty after the war, and as far as I know they've kept to its terms.

* Sten: They signed a piece of paper. But only because they knew that you believed in it.

* Alistair: And what is the difference between that and negotiating?

* Sten: They stopped fighting for their own reasons. And they will resume it again, one day. The agreement means nothing to them.

* Alistair: But I thought you said your people believed in honor.

* Sten: They do. The honor of the qunari is what will bring our warships back to your shores.

[Maria Caliban]

RinpocheSchnozberry wrote...

It just wouldn't ring very true to the tone of the setting if alone out of all the races and religions in the world, the qunari were pure and honest in their devotions.

Chantry followers, dwarves (with the stone), and the Dalish with their elven gods all seem 'pure and honest in their devotion.'

[Malanek]

RinpocheSchnozberry wrote...

First of all: The Qun is bull****. It's a method of organizing people in order to use them to further the goals of their leaders. You can bet your ass, some place along the line among the qunari, there's a "curtain" or social wall beyond which the real decisions are made. And it is ugly in there. It probably looks more like the Landsmeet than it does a Chantry social. You can bet that as they were signing the Llomerryn Accords, the qunari masters where thinking up ways to get around them once they were ready to go back on the offensive.

Do I have proof? Nope. It just wouldn't ring very true to the tone of the setting if alone out of all the races and religions in the world, the qunari were pure and honest in their devotions. I'm not buying it. As was pointed out... all the other races are packed full of scheming ****s... Why should the qunari be any different?

Although I'm not saying you're not right with your assumption, I don't think the "ring very true" part is a good basis for it. I don't think there is anything wrong with having a good side to what would otherwise be a pretty monstrous race.

RinpocheSchnozberry wrote...
If this really is a full out qunari invasion, I'm willing to bet they have a conquest based economy. That means that when conquest stops... The economy falls apart. ;-) But awful (and pleasingly!) snarky if the qunari were motivated by a powerful recession to invade a patchwork nation, eh?

Indeed, this has always been a problem for real historical armies. However I'm not sure this would apply to the Qunari. In reality it is because you suddenly have thousands of soldiers who you are paying to do nothing and who are not bringing in any land or wealth. I'm not sure the Qun warriors are being paid or even care if their GDP goes down. They still have the same amount of productive people as before.

[blothulfur]

The qunari have the Qun and thus are richer than the Archons of old Tevinter.

[RinpocheSchnozberry]

Maria Caliban wrote...

RinpocheSchnozberry wrote...

It just wouldn't ring very true to the tone of the setting if alone out of all the races and religions in the world, the qunari were pure and honest in their devotions.

Chantry followers, dwarves (with the stone), and the Dalish with their elven gods all seem 'pure and honest in their devotion.'

Some are I'm sure.  But there are at least a couple templars who let the Mages Collective run around in exchange for lyrium.  In a couple of my play throughs, there are dwarves that don't care much for the stone and prefer the Chantry.  I could have sworn there was also a dwarf that talks some crap about the stone some place, but I can't recall it.  As for the Dalish, I don't have a direct example, but it would not feel right if they were pure and wonderful too. 

[ThemFlashlight-headedThings]

The thing that surprised me about the Quanari, and Origins in general, was how the people were shown, the Quanari look barbarous, but Sten is one of the most reserved and honorable party members in the game. From talks with him about the Quanari in general, you can assume that most others are like him. They are very proud people, they refuse to be pushed around by someone they view as inferior. They may invade the Free Marches, but they wouldn't lower themselves to deceptive tactics such as stealth and poisoning (elves) Betrayal (some humans). Now this is based entirely off of Sten, I could be completely wrong about the Quanari, they could be evil monsters that have no concern for respect of the enemy in battle and afterwords.

[RinpocheSchnozberry]

Malanek999 wrote...

Although I'm not saying you're not right with your assumption, I don't think the "ring very true" part is a good basis for it. I don't think there is anything wrong with having a good side to what would otherwise be a pretty monstrous race.

In the absence of interviewing one of them, that's all I got.  :)  They do have upsides, I totally agree.

Indeed, this has always been a problem for real historical armies. However I'm not sure this would apply to the Qunari. In reality it is because you suddenly have thousands of soldiers who you are paying to do nothing and who are not bringing in any land or wealth. I'm not sure the Qun warriors are being paid or even care if their GDP goes down. They still have the same amount of productive people as before.

In theory, yeah.  But if the game is going to have any element of "reality" (Gah, I hate being the guy saying a fantasy game isn't real enough.) then there has to be the greedy human element in there.  More often than not, that's the kind of person that is going to be drawn to power.  As the system succeeds, more greedy people are drawn in until it all eventually rots from the inside.

[SnakeStrike8]

So the Qunari broke their word.

Really, why is that so surprising? Sten may want the Qunari to be seen as upright and moral people that never lie, but they're probably really not so. Their leaders are probably just as corrupt as the next king; we just never find out because we never meet them.

Don't assume that the Qunari have justification for everything they do. Maybe the Arishok simply decides to start a war and sod the consequences amongst his troops: let them call him a liar. If they truly serve the Qun, they'll obey anyway because soldiering is their place.

[Dayshadow]

XxDeonxX wrote...

In Dragon Age Origins upon asking Sten whether or not I can trust him after recruiting him he told me that the Qunari are not a people of false promises and that they never go back on their word.

Ferelden, Orlais, Rivain, The Free Marches, Nevarra, Antiva, The Anderfels.. Pretty much every human nation except The Tevinter Imperium signed The Llomerryn Accord with the Qunari stating they would not invade or attack each other anymore. The Invasion of Kirkwall by the Qunari has broken The Llomerryn Accord. This can only mean that Sten is a LIAR! and the Qunari are LIARS! a people of false promise and lies. With this Metagaming knowledge, in origins you should kill sten in your next plathrough because you cant trust him.

Anyway so why did the Qunari break the Llomerryn Accord when they are supposed to be about Honor and keeping their word.. Not Liars?

Qunari do not care about papers.  There is a conversation with Sten where he says that it is only a piece of paper and ink and has no meaning to the Qunari.  They signed it because humans value it, but they ceased their the conflict with the treaty nations for their own reasons.  By the tenets of the Qun they MUST convert others because to do otherwise would be to permit ignorance and superstition, which runs contrary to the Qun.

[Kane-Corr]

OP, Sten, is quite frankly, "The Man." -Yes, it's capitalized...why you ask?











....because he's just that cool.

[TJPags]

HiroVoid wrote...

Found it!
(Alistair as king)
* Alistair: So I suppose once I'm actually king I could end up in negotiations with the qunari one day.
* Sten: My people do not negotiate.
* Alistair: What do you mean? They negotiated a peace treaty after the war, and as far as I know they've kept to its terms.
* Sten: They signed a piece of paper. But only because they knew that you believed in it.
* Alistair: And what is the difference between that and negotiating?
* Sten: They stopped fighting for their own reasons. And they will resume it again, one day. The agreement means nothing to them.
* Alistair: But I thought you said your people believed in honor.
* Sten: They do. The honor of the qunari is what will bring our warships back to your shores.

Yup - this conversation is the first thing that popped into my mind, too.

Basically, the Qunari don't care about that treaty, so, won't bother them to break it.

[Jarek_Cousland]

Sten's the honorable one. He basically falls into a bromance/crush with the Warden when we get his approval up.







I always saw Sten as the good guy amongst the power hungry Qunari.

[Malanek]

HiroVoid wrote...

Found it!
(Alistair as king)
* Alistair: So I suppose once I'm actually king I could end up in negotiations with the qunari one day.
* Sten: My people do not negotiate.
* Alistair: What do you mean? They negotiated a peace treaty after the war, and as far as I know they've kept to its terms.
* Sten: They signed a piece of paper. But only because they knew that you believed in it.
* Alistair: And what is the difference between that and negotiating?
* Sten: They stopped fighting for their own reasons. And they will resume it again, one day. The agreement means nothing to them.
* Alistair: But I thought you said your people believed in honor.
* Sten: They do. The honor of the qunari is what will bring our warships back to your shores.

This does actually back up what the OP was saying to an extent. If Sten said Qunari never lie (I don't actually recall that) then this is evidence that they do lie. Not a reason to kill him though. Of course one could argue the fact he butchered a bunch of people was reason enough for that. Qunari are very interesting.

[TJPags]

Malanek999 wrote...

HiroVoid wrote...

Found it!
(Alistair as king)
* Alistair: So I suppose once I'm actually king I could end up in negotiations with the qunari one day.
* Sten: My people do not negotiate.
* Alistair: What do you mean? They negotiated a peace treaty after the war, and as far as I know they've kept to its terms.
* Sten: They signed a piece of paper. But only because they knew that you believed in it.
* Alistair: And what is the difference between that and negotiating?
* Sten: They stopped fighting for their own reasons. And they will resume it again, one day. The agreement means nothing to them.
* Alistair: But I thought you said your people believed in honor.
* Sten: They do. The honor of the qunari is what will bring our warships back to your shores.

This does actually back up what the OP was saying to an extent. If Sten said Qunari never lie (I don't actually recall that) then this is evidence that they do lie. Not a reason to kill him though. Of course one could argue the fact he butchered a bunch of people was reason enough for that. Qunari are very interesting.

I don't know . . . .if you say something not true to someone with no honor, does it matter?  That's likely how the Qunari see it - humans, elves, dwarves - they have no honor.  They don't deserve to be treated with honor, so lying to them is fine.

Of course, one can also say that deception is a large part of war - and if they Qunari see themselves in a war, why not lie?

[The Night Haunter]

Malanek999 wrote...

HiroVoid wrote...

Found it!
(Alistair as king)
* Alistair: So I suppose once I'm actually king I could end up in negotiations with the qunari one day.
* Sten: My people do not negotiate.
* Alistair: What do you mean? They negotiated a peace treaty after the war, and as far as I know they've kept to its terms.
* Sten: They signed a piece of paper. But only because they knew that you believed in it.
* Alistair: And what is the difference between that and negotiating?
* Sten: They stopped fighting for their own reasons. And they will resume it again, one day. The agreement means nothing to them.
* Alistair: But I thought you said your people believed in honor.
* Sten: They do. The honor of the qunari is what will bring our warships back to your shores.

This does actually back up what the OP was saying to an extent. If Sten said Qunari never lie (I don't actually recall that) then this is evidence that they do lie. Not a reason to kill him though. Of course one could argue the fact he butchered a bunch of people was reason enough for that. Qunari are very interesting.

I don't recall Sten saying anything about lieing. He did say the Qunari were honorable, but that is subjective since Qunari honor is not Chantry honor.

[TheCreeper]

Jarek_Cousland wrote...

Sten's the honorable one. He basically falls into a bromance/crush with the Warden when we get his approval up.



I always saw Sten as the good guy amongst the power hungry Qunari.

I don't know if Qunari are exactly power hungry so much as puesdo-crusaders trying to convert everything to the Qun.

[Jarek_Cousland]

TheCreeper wrote...

Jarek_Cousland wrote...

Sten's the honorable one. He basically falls into a bromance/crush with the Warden when we get his approval up.



I always saw Sten as the good guy amongst the power hungry Qunari.

I don't know if Qunari are exactly power hungry so much as puesdo-crusaders trying to convert everything to the Qun.

I think power hungry was the wrong wording.



I meant to say I look at them as nothing but Warriors who try to give us a good reason for why they're fighting.


So basically they're hypocrites just like humanity. Only the irony is they're too stubborn to see it.


Just like humanity...


<_<

[The Night Haunter]

Jarek_Cousland wrote...

TheCreeper wrote...

Jarek_Cousland wrote...

Sten's the honorable one. He basically falls into a bromance/crush with the Warden when we get his approval up.



I always saw Sten as the good guy amongst the power hungry Qunari.

I don't know if Qunari are exactly power hungry so much as puesdo-crusaders trying to convert everything to the Qun.

I think power hungry was the wrong wording.



I meant to say I look at them as nothing but Warriors who try to give us a good reason for why they're fighting.


So basically they're hypocrites just like humanity. Only the irony is they're too stubborn to see it.


Just like humanity...


<_<

Actually the difference between the Qunari and humans, is that when humans try to conquer they do it for themselves. When the Qunari try to conquer they do it for the good of the conquered people. (Hard to understand from an outside perspective, but the Qunari believe the Qun is right and everything else is wrong and they fight so that their conquered subjects can be 'right')
Even if they are a bit misguided, 'For the greater good', is much better than, 'For my greater good'.

[Dayshadow]

ghostmessiah202 wrote...

Malanek999 wrote...

HiroVoid wrote...

Found it!
(Alistair as king)
* Alistair: So I suppose once I'm actually king I could end up in negotiations with the qunari one day.
* Sten: My people do not negotiate.
* Alistair: What do you mean? They negotiated a peace treaty after the war, and as far as I know they've kept to its terms.
* Sten: They signed a piece of paper. But only because they knew that you believed in it.
* Alistair: And what is the difference between that and negotiating?
* Sten: They stopped fighting for their own reasons. And they will resume it again, one day. The agreement means nothing to them.
* Alistair: But I thought you said your people believed in honor.
* Sten: They do. The honor of the qunari is what will bring our warships back to your shores.

This does actually back up what the OP was saying to an extent. If Sten said Qunari never lie (I don't actually recall that) then this is evidence that they do lie. Not a reason to kill him though. Of course one could argue the fact he butchered a bunch of people was reason enough for that. Qunari are very interesting.

I don't recall Sten saying anything about lieing. He did say the Qunari were honorable, but that is subjective since Qunari honor is not Chantry honor.

I said I wouldn't help Redcliffe in on playthrough.  I then told the blacksmith guy that I'd look for his daughter because I needed to unload some items.  Sten calls me out on it and I lost approval.  Also, whenever you lie to someone with him in your party he'll call you out or tell the person that you aren't being truthful.

It isn't stated exaclty how the treaty came to be.  If the humans proposed it and the Qunari agreed without actually stating the terms of the cease fire, but merely that they would cease hostilities, then they haven't lied.  They did cease hostilities.  That doesn't mean they can't restart hostilities. 

They simply scribbled some ink on a piece of paper. If that paper said they would never engage in hostilities again that means nothing to them if they didn't explicitedly agree to those terms verbally.  I doubt they did because that would violate the Qun. I think they would be held to an verbaloath, but not a sheet of paper. And even if they made an oath would the oath be for all future qunari or just the ones alive during the time of the oath.  Can I honestly make an oath and expect my great great great great grandson to abide by it.  It is my oath, not his.

[David Gaider]

XxDeonxX wrote...
The Invasion of Kirkwall by the Qunari has broken The Llomerryn Accord.

The Qunari have invaded Kirkwall? Holy crap! Someone alert the--

--wait, when did this happen? I'm confused.

[SammyJB17]

David Gaider wrote...

XxDeonxX wrote...
The Invasion of Kirkwall by the Qunari has broken The Llomerryn Accord.

The Qunari have invaded Kirkwall? Holy crap! Someone alert the--

--wait, when did this happen? I'm confused.

OH MY GOD, DINOSAUR GAIDER ECHOED MY OPINION

SammyJB17 wrote...

Are we 100% sure an entire Qunari army representing the Qun are invading? Tal'vashoth exiles teaming up could cause an army of exiles. Without the game, we can't be sure. However, as Sten also said that eventually the Qunari would try to take Fereldan, so either he contradicts himself, the treaty expires, or they break it.

Modifié par SammyJB17, 20 janvier 2011 - 02:15 .

[Jarek_Cousland]

David Gaider wrote...

XxDeonxX wrote...
The Invasion of Kirkwall by the Qunari has broken The Llomerryn Accord.

The Qunari have invaded Kirkwall? Holy crap! Someone alert the--

--wait, when did this happen? I'm confused.

When everybody saw Hawke fighting that big Qunari fellur in the Destiny trailer.



wait....what?