193 réponses à ce sujet

[Kimarous]

NKKKK wrote...
Also, once again, Priestly confirmed in, maybe accidentally, maybe not, in a post some time ago about the "Qunari Invasion"

Pics or it didn't happen.

[Malanek]

TJPags wrote...
1 and 2.  Gifts made in contemplation of death, for one.  GIfts made in contemplation of marriage, for another.  There are others.

I assume you are talking about promised inherited gifts and engagment rings (which incidentally is clearly not what you were originally talking about). However in all these cases these gifts cannot be rvoked after offer and acceptance, what you are thinking of is that acceptance has been made, but it hasn't until the person dies or the marriage occurs. Once that marriage takes places the engagment ring cannot be revoked. And of course in the case of death, the person is no longer alive to revoke it anyway.

[Malanek]

Piecake wrote...
I think what he is trying to say is that there could or could not be a Qunari invasion based on the choices you make, and just doesnt want to spoil the amazingly awesome news

Which I completely support. Speculation from posters about a Qunari invasion is fun and interesting. I don't want confirmation from someone who knows though.

[Piecake]

Malanek999 wrote...

Piecake wrote...
I think what he is trying to say is that there could or could not be a Qunari invasion based on the choices you make, and just doesnt want to spoil the amazingly awesome news

Which I completely support. Speculation from posters about a Qunari invasion is fun and interesting. I don't want confirmation from someone who knows though.

My post was mostly in jest, but I do agree, and having your choices determine whether an invasion or not just seems freakin awesome.  Not exactly sure what would fill the void if you went down the non-invasion path, but i dont care! 

[TJPags]

Malanek999 wrote...

TJPags wrote...
1 and 2.  Gifts made in contemplation of death, for one.  GIfts made in contemplation of marriage, for another.  There are others.

I assume you are talking about promised inherited gifts and engagment rings (which incidentally is clearly not what you were originally talking about). However in all these cases these gifts cannot be rvoked after offer and acceptance, what you are thinking of is that acceptance has been made, but it hasn't until the person dies or the marriage occurs. Once that marriage takes places the engagment ring cannot be revoked. And of course in the case of death, the person is no longer alive to revoke it anyway.

Actually, no, that's not what I meant at all.

In the case of inherited gifts, they don't become valid until, obviously, I die and my will is probated.  In the case of an engagement ring, yes, once the marriage is official, it can't be taken back.

What I was referring to, is giving you something - actually handing it to you - in the belief I was dying.  "oh my, I was just shot with an arrow, here, have my sword, Starfang".  Wynne comes by and heals me.  I get my sword back.

Also, gifts given in contemplation of marriage - "You got engaged?  Congratulations - here's your gift".  You called the wedding off?  Can I have my toaster back now?

So, before stating that a gift is not revocable, check the circumstances.  Before stating that the Qunari never intended to honor the agreement, check the circumstances.
PS - on the current topic, I have no idea if there will or will not be a Qunari invasion.  I hope there is, though.

[David Gaider]

Piecake wrote...
I think what he is trying to say is that there could or could not be a Qunari invasion based on the choices you make, and just doesnt want to spoil the amazingly awesome news

What I'm saying is that what Chris said (or did not say, I have no idea) might just be a simplification. Someone entering my home is an invasion. The Beatles were an invasion. Pirates landing on my porch is an invasion. It does not mean that Kirkwall or the Free Marches is under assault by the Qunari nation.

Or maybe it does. Talking about it in the past tense simply seemed confusing.

I'd just be careful about your interpretations before you get carried away. My impulse for Expectations Management demands it. But carry on.

[Malanek]

Anyway, I am done discussing the details of this for now. My take on it is that...
1) Sten probably never said all Qunari never lie and that the OP was innacurate.
2) The Qunari knew they were lying when signing this treaty but did not consider it a dishonourable lie because they see it for the people of Thedas' good, that they are eventually converted to the Qun.

Modifié par Malanek999, 20 janvier 2011 - 04:29 .

[ObserverStatus]

NKKKK wrote...

Also, once again, Priestly confirmed in, maybe accidentally, maybe not, in a post some time ago about the "Qunari Invasion"

So yes people, Garrus isn't a rumored party member any more and Tali is a love interest.

he might have been lieing, I still haven't seen 1 copy of "Everykrogan poops" yet.

[TJPags]

David Gaider wrote...

Piecake wrote...
I think what he is trying to say is that there could or could not be a Qunari invasion based on the choices you make, and just doesnt want to spoil the amazingly awesome news

What I'm saying is that what Chris said (or did not say, I have no idea) might just be a simplification. Someone entering my home is an invasion. The Beatles were an invasion. Pirates landing on my porch is an invasion. It does not mean that Kirkwall or the Free Marches is under assault by the Qunari nation.

Or maybe it does. Talking about it in the past tense simply seemed confusing.

I'd just be careful about your interpretations before you get carried away. My impulse for Expectations Management demands it. But carry on.

Confirmation that the Qunari WILL invade!!! - they just haven't done so yet. 

No, seriously, that was, without a doubt, a possible maybe.  With good analogies (except the Beatles - I never liked them )

Oh - and were they ninja pirates that landed on your porch? 

[ObserverStatus]

David Gaider wrote...

Piecake wrote...
I think what he is trying to say is that there could or could not be a Qunari invasion based on the choices you make, and just doesnt want to spoil the amazingly awesome news

What I'm saying is that what Chris said (or did not say, I have no idea) might just be a simplification. Someone entering my home is an invasion. The Beatles were an invasion. Pirates landing on my porch is an invasion. It does not mean that Kirkwall or the Free Marches is under assault by the Qunari nation.

Or maybe it does. Talking about it in the past tense simply seemed confusing.

I'd just be careful about your interpretations before you get carried away. My impulse for Expectations Management demands it. But carry on.

Personally i find it even harder to think of it in the future tense, given that Varric will be telling this story in the past tense.

[Brockololly]

All we know is that based on the Destiny trailer and the other screens and such, we've got Qunari in Kirkwall raising ruckus. And we have this screen of a Qunari holding some crown in what looks like a Kirkwall building:


And from the last dev diary, you have this fellow wearing a rather peculiar looking piece of head gear:



Sooooo, I'm guessing the Qunari didn't just say pretty please to take that crown. Whether they're a full on invasion force or maybe some Qunari special ops team or something, who knows. But I don't think its a stretch to say there are Qunari in Kirkwall and Hawke will be fighting and killing them.

[Morroian]

I think its some sort of special ops team rather than a full on invasion. Maybe sent to assassinate Dumar.

[Brockololly]

Morroian wrote...

I think its some sort of special ops team rather than a full on invasion. Maybe sent to assassinate Dumar.

Hmmm. yeah, maybe they've been sent to assassinate Dumar to destabilize the Free Marches or Kirkwall in preparation for a full on invasion?  We know the world is on the brink of war at the end of DA2, so maybe the Qunari preparing to invade, along with the Chantry crumbling and whatever Flemeth is doing with the mages is part of that?

[Piecake]

Morroian wrote...

I think its some sort of special ops team rather than a full on invasion. Maybe sent to assassinate Dumar.

a ninja pirate special ops force

[Dayshadow]

Malanek999 wrote...

Dayshadow wrote...

Malanek999 wrote...

What you have written is creative... but completely irrelevent. The dialogue between Alistair and Sten indicates the Qunari were fully aware of what they were doing and never had any intention of honouring what they signed.

What did they sign? What does the treaty state?

This is very important and the foundaton of your argument.

You're saying they are lying, but you don't even know what it is they are supposedly lying about.

It's not the foundation of my argument at all. Sten and Alsiatir know what was signed. I am deducing that the Quanri lied on the basis of what Sten and Alistair said.

So you're arguing from a manufactured position based on... your interpretation of a dialog that doesn't explicitly state what you believe it implies?  See, this is exactly why facts are important and should be the foundation of an argument. 

Neither Sten nor Alistair were around when the papers were signed. 

"[...] by 7:84 Storm Age the Qunari had been well and truly pushed back. Rivain was the only human land that embraced the qunari religion after being freed, and its rulers attempted to barter a peace. Envoys from most human lands gathered to sign the Llomerryn Accord, and peace was made between the qunari and all human lands other than the Tevinter Imperium. Even there, however, the qunari withdrew. Humanity had, with the Maker’s will, beat back the invaders and returned to its rightful place as masters of Thedas. It is a shaky peace that has lasted to this very day." 

They signed the "Llomerryn Accord", which was proposed by humans.  And they have been at peace for about 150 years.  We do not know what the terms of the Accord is.  If it is as simple as, "Hostilities will stop", then the Qunari have keep their word. Hostilities have stopped and have stayed that way for 150 years.  Does that mean that hostilities can never start up again? No.  If the humans interpret the cease fire as permanent or see it as something both sides desire for the sake of lasting peace, that is their folly. It is not lying to allow a fool to be foolish.  Furthermore, it is not lying to assume the other party will interpret something incorrectly and exploit their ignorance. 

Modifié par Dayshadow, 20 janvier 2011 - 05:02 .

[Abispa]

How do we know that the humans aren't just misreading Qunari signs of affection?

[PsychoBlonde]

HiroVoid wrote...

Pretty sure I remember dialogue where Sten basically says why the Qunari'll invade again even though there's a peace treaty. Can't remember it though.

There is--if you make Alistair king, Alistair makes some comment to the effect that he might have to negotiate with the Qunari at some point in the future.  Then Sten replies with "The Qunari do not negotiate." and goes on to explain that they don't adhere to things like treaties--they stopped fighting because they wanted to and they only signed the treaty because they knew the HUMANS would adhere to it--mostly.  Alistair then remarks that this isn't a very honorable attitude, to which Sten replies that it's honor that drives the Qunari to invade again.

It's not that the Qunari are dishonest, exactly, it's that they have a completely different view of what honesty and honor consist of.

[CitizenThom]

Malanek999 wrote...

Actually thinking about it some more Sten also implies that a Qunari invasion is inevitable.

I recall him saying something to that effect... he even said it was regrettable I think...am I remembering the dialogue right?

p.s. I'm thinking maybe on this playthrough I'd like to see if I can deliberately antagonise Sten... I'm thinking it's going to be as hard to earn his disapproval as it was to gain his approval. Thank goodness for the feast day gifts and pranks.

Modifié par CitizenThom, 20 janvier 2011 - 06:40 .

[Randy1012]

If the qunari are invading, why are we so quick to assume that they're the ones who broke the Accord? Maybe they were attacked first. Something to think about...

[Morroian]

Randy1083 wrote...

If the qunari are invading, why are we so quick to assume that they're the ones who broke the Accord? Maybe they were attacked first. Something to think about...

By Kirkwall? A city state. Only if they're moronic.

[Kimarous]

My guess as to the "Llomerryn Accord" as presented in the style of Total War diplomacy:

We propose:
Ceasefire

We demand:
Accept or we will attack

[Demx]

It was all really a big misunderstanding. You see originally they came to Kirkwall to do some shopping and maybe a little sightseeing. Anyways, in Hightown there's this pet store, and one of the Qunari went inside, he has a soft spot for pets. So he goes up to the merchant asks how much the pet was, but instead of pointing at an animal, he had a mage by the collar of her shirt. The merchant was a little confused by the situation, and the Quniari's short temper didn't help much. And everything just spun out of control.

[hangmans tree]

I think that the qunari in Kirkwall are the ambasador and his retinue

David Gaider wrote...

NKKKK wrote...
Also, once again, Priestly confirmed in, maybe accidentally, maybe not, in a post some time ago about the "Qunari Invasion"

Is that so? Well clearly that must be the case, then.

Whatever. Carry on.

So, like the OP is suggesting I think I'll kill you too...in my next playthrough. Just name some antagonists Gaider, Priestly, toss in a Woo and we're good ;P

[David Gaider]

PsychoBlonde wrote...
It's not that the Qunari are dishonest, exactly, it's that they have a completely different view of what honesty and honor consist of.

This is it. Sten said qunari do not lie-- and they don't-- but what a lie is to a qunari and what it is to humans are probably not quite the same thing.

[Randy1012]

Well, not Kirkwall specifically. It's possible they were attacked by someone else and the qunari considered it an attack by all the human kingdoms (they operate on a different mindset than the humans do, after all), so they haven't discriminated in their retaliatory invasion.

I don't know, I just don't like the idea that all qunari are just these mindless zealots who swarm upon Thedas without any provocation. I think there's got to be a deeper reason.