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Female Turians in ME: Evolution


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#326
skyferret

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Eradyn wrote...

The turian homeworld, Palaven, has a metal-poor core, generating a weak magnetic field and allowing more solar radiation into the atmosphere. To deal with this, most forms of life on Palaven evolved some form of metallic "exoskeleton" to protect themselves. Their reflective plate-like skin makes turians less susceptible to long-term, low-level radiation exposure, but they do not possess any sort of "natural armor". A turian's thick skin does not stop projectiles and directed energy bolts.

Source



It's not just thickened skin they have, it's also their exoskeleton/plate-like skin as well. There is differentiation between them in the codex that is reflected by the established male turian design as well as, to a degree, this female turian. Turians evolved the thickened carapaces/plates for a reason (to help reflect radiation) and not just because they thought it would look good. Not to mention, again, what we have from in-game dialogue.

I still stand by my description of her looking like she was eaten by mange and this all being the result of more DH-fail. The former is an opinion, the latter is a hope.

Like I said: I'm in the "Wait and See" camp. If BW ultimately goes for this being the across-the-board look for turian females, then that's what they go for. Granted, there are variations of design even amongst male turians, so perhaps this is just what one variation of a female turian looks like. Or, again, it could just be DH-fail (regrettably common with the ME comics, at least). I just don't really know.

EDIT: Plates/carapace/whatever are not meant to be a cure-all armor.  They are there to help reflect radiation.  Its presence along the head and neck make sense.


I can join you in that camp.

I mean, maybe she's just ~molting~.

#327
Xaijin

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Rather droll to see opinions that "non-humanized" is "brilliant" by directly copying avian modalities. Both are equally non-alien, "lazy" and just as anthropomophized as the other. If Turians are to be depicited as truly alien, this doesn't really seem to be the way.

Just ingore Sunnie22, been trollin since the days of Zulu_DFA, nothing new to see there. Romance != procreation, and Mass Effect tech allows for sexual stimulation regardless od species; point irrelevant.

Completely Subjectively speaking, the design simply seems off. She looks like the Red Skull.

#328
AmayaRuiz

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Yes! Alien females that look alien.  I approve.

#329
Whereto

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Sure it's cool, it looks alien, but it doesn't make sense. I know everyone wants more alien, so I guess they gave us more alien at the expense of what has already been said and makes it look more human. Besides the fact that females have less plating and leave one of the most important organs more exposed to the radiation of their home planet, everything that has been said is now flipped on it's head. I hope the plate extends to a more solid fringe the just extends over the beack of the head

#330
Liec

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I love how this thread is 7 times longer than the one about the comic itself.

#331
Whereto

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I think it's mainly cause the comic isn't that crash hot

#332
Doctor_Jackstraw

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I really hope female krogan are like....bigger, taller bulkier and more dangerous looking, like the difference between male and female spiders.

#333
lovgreno

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Doctor_Jackstraw wrote...

I really hope female krogan are like....bigger, taller bulkier and more dangerous looking, like the difference between male and female spiders.

Yeah! And why not make turian gals bigger too, just because.

#334
klossen4

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When if quarians are revealed we will have one big thread. It will invovle disappointment praise and haters.

Modifié par klossen4, 21 janvier 2011 - 12:40 .


#335
aftohsix

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Shuld look like night elf lol

#336
volus4life

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klossen4 wrote...

When if quarians are revealed we will have one big thread. It will invovle disappointment praise and haters.


if female quarians had boobs on their faces, this forum would implode.

#337
snfonseka

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They look same as the male.

#338
Ahriman

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Doctor_Jackstraw wrote...

I really hope female krogan are like....bigger, taller bulkier and more dangerous looking, like the difference between male and female spiders.


If they were bigger and stronger than males they would be clanleaders. Also before genophage there was only one female-general (aka Jeanne d'Ark) -> medieval type of society -> females supposed to be weaker.

BTW Female krogans must be hot as hell. Do you hear me, Bioware?

#339
AxoneNeurone

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I'm sure everything I'll say has been said before, but I'll say it anyway. Finally, a female turian! When I saw the design I, too, was shocked and a bit dismayed, but 70% of the reason I don't like the design is the artwork itself. The artists and colorists that work on it are professionals who are certainly superior to my artistic abilities, but sometimes they just draw things wrong. My main gripe is her neck.

In the picture, the back of her skull is rounded, and there is a dip in the place where the base of her skull ends and her neck begins. Turians, however, have an arched, almost snakelike neck, and their faces tend to slope forward towards the chin, giving them a distinctive raptorial profile. This design looks like someone slapped a turian mask on a bald human, but mainly because of the way she's drawn--with a flat face and a human-shaped head.

I understand what they were going for. Turians are an avian race, and male birds are visually more impressive than females. However, there are two things to consider. If we're going to make turian features analogous to Earth bird evolutionary idiosyncracies, consider that the turians are predators, and predatory birds, i. e. raptors, do not typically share the same striking sexual dimoprhism as shown in prey-birds. Indeed, if we go the earth-analogue route, females should be larger than the males, as this is seen in many raptor species, particularly eagles. Of course, these are aliens, and subject to whatever laws of evolution their creators want to subject them to.

I would be okay with larger females, too. The idea of a big hulking female badass turian makes me happy inside, but I digress.

The second thing to consider is the nature of the fringe itself. As far as the fringe goes, I'm with the folks that feel that her fringe should be present, only more discreet, and perhaps curved downward along the profile of her neck. Turian fringes look like they serve a function--the plates have been mentioned in the codex to have been an evolutionary adaption against radiation, and in addition the elongated shape could easily be used to remove excess body heat on their naturally-warm homeworld. If nothing else, it looks to be extended shielding for their necks, so it's function rather that just form.

In most cases of evolution (once again, this is all Earth-based, so it's subject to being easily dismissed) the female of the species is the better-protected. The very reason we see birds with duller plumage is because such an adaptation makes it easier for them to hide from predators. In brutal terms, males only have to live long enough to fertilize the female, but females have to live through their entire gestation as well as the rearing period for their young in order to be a successful species. It doesn't make sense to me why a female would lack an anatomical trait that is primarily protective.

Of course, this can also be dismissed by reminding us that, though turians did evolve from a primal ancestor, they have had many years to shape their evolution according to the geography of their society rather than their planet. Traits that might have been useful for survival on Palaven might not have been as successful where getting a date was concerned. Nowadays it's hip for human females to be rail-thin. Such scrawny specimens would be considered sick or weak by primal standards, but we don't adhere to them any longer. The same thing could be said for males. The media rarely depicts a well-muscled male with the proper amount of body fat. In the wild, being able to see the movement of every muscle and tendon underneath one's skin would not be a good thing.

Perhaps a long fringe is considered masculine by turian standards, and over the course of their social evolution the undesirable trait in turian females has reduced itself. One might argue that such a dramatic change couldn't come about so quickly, but that depends entirely on genetic structure. Case in point: canines. Human will has bent canines into amazingly varied shapes over the course of our interaction with them. This has primarily to do with a quirk of their DNA. Even if turians did not engage in eugenics-type social experiments, it's entirely possible that simple social preference created such a dramatic change if the price is right as far as DNA structure is concerned.

And though they do have something of a fringe, it's not enough to warrent, I think, the in-game comments about them. Why would Garrus compliment a female's fringe if it's noticeably absent? "Darling, your lack of fringe appeals to me?" And the bachelor party on Illium was intended to be comedic, but the turian member specifically compared an asari head-fringe to a turian's. He never specifically said female turians, but I don't see why he would have picked out a male-specific trait to focus on as far as asari attractiveness goes unless he prefers males, and he clearly states later on that he is displeased by the lack of female turians on Illium.

Unless, of course, he swings both ways, which is also cool, but somewhat of  flimsy argument when trying to undermine the validity of his comment. Things said in-game can be retconned, of course. Video games are always works in progress, and the result of an entire team's worth of labor. There's simply so much that goes into them that sometimes details like that slip through. Perhaps that will be the case with the female turian head-fringe.

There is also the possibility of a subspecies. Though it's been stated that alien populations are more or less homogenous, we clearly saw a sub-species in Saren, and individual variance can also be considered. Just because one turian female looks this way doesn't mean they all do.

All this said, I reiterate that 70% of why I'm not sold on this design is the art. With the right curve of the neck and slope of her face, she'd look like a turian again. Properly rendered and lovingly textured by Bioware, I'm sure she'd look much better. I just feel that this interpretation makes her look very human, which I dislike. I'm all for female aliens that are just that: alien. The turian design is one of my favorites in the game. They might have been attempting to go the opposite route, but it looks to me like there was an attempt to make look more human, to perhaps protray her as a character that a human male would find attractive? I could be wholly wrong, but I'm getting that vibe here.

And we already have the asari for eye-candy. That was their primary purpose; it's even stated in the first art book that a race of  desirable "green alien girls" was the original concept for them. That said, they have developed into an interesting society and, in my opinion, a pretty damn cool addition to the Mass Effect universe, but we really don't need more eye-candy. I like the fact that Bioware never intended for turians to be attractive, and yet they became one of the most popular species with the fans. It works out very well when they don't try too hard.

I do like her significantly wider hips and notiable lack of a bust. Thank goodness for that. My only remaining issue with this is--why is she barefaced? A lot of turians in the comic completely lack their facial insignias. I'm pretty sure all of the ones in the entire Redemption series completely lack them. Do the colorists just not know? C'mon, you guys, you're getting paid to do something a lot of us fans would trip over ourselves in enthusiasm to do--work on a Mass Effect comic! Please make sure you at least jive with the canon!

tl;dr: The lack of fringe doesn't jive with SCIENCE, but there are many factors to consider that could easily make it otherwise fit. Primarily, it's the way she's drawn I dislike.


I'll just hang out here in Camp Wait-n-See with the rest of y'all.

#340
Lvl20DM

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I think, if this is the design they go with for female Turians, then it will look pretty good rendered in game. Females will have smaller mandibles, slightly larger hips, and no fringe/small fringes. Looking at how the males look in the comic, and then comparing them to how they look in game, we can extrapolate how female turians could look in ME3.

Wizz wrote...


If they were bigger and stronger than males they would be clanleaders. Also before genophage there was only one female-general (aka Jeanne d'Ark) -> medieval type of society -> females supposed to be weaker.



Female Krogan are clan leaders, of their own female clans. This is revealed in a discussion with Wrex or Wreave on Tuchanka. The female warlord you mentioned was also one of the most successful warlords, using her fertility as a way to collect loyal warriors.

#341
Ahriman

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Lvl20DM wrote...

Female Krogan are clan leaders, of their own female clans. This is revealed in a discussion with Wrex or Wreave on Tuchanka. The female warlord you mentioned was also one of the most successful warlords, using her fertility as a way to collect loyal warriors.


I'm pretty sure that female clans appeared after genophage, when females which were able to give birth were a reason to start clanwar. Now neutrality allows them to avoid such situations, because if some clan tries to capture them other clans will destroy it immediately.

#342
Locutus_of_BORG

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I'm disappointed at the female turian's design. Looks lazy, almost... like she might as well be a male turian w/o a fringe. But then again, ME comic art hasn't done anybody's looks any justice anyway. Maybe they would look better in-game.

Modifié par Locutus_of_BORG, 21 janvier 2011 - 06:27 .


#343
aftohsix

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AxoneNeurone wrote...

tl;dr: The lack of fringe doesn't jive with SCIENCE


You're right.  That's why I demand scientific realism in my videogames about talking aliens, giant robots and interstellar travel.

#344
AxoneNeurone

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aftohsix wrote...

AxoneNeurone wrote...

tl;dr: The lack of fringe doesn't jive with SCIENCE


You're right.  That's why I demand scientific realism in my videogames about talking aliens, giant robots and interstellar travel.


I sense traces of sarcasm... Or perhaps it's just the inefficiencies of text-based communication rearing their ugly heads. At any rate, allow me to propose an addendum:

The lack of fringe doesn't jive with SCIENCE aspects that were previously established by Bioware for the Mass Effect universe. Mass Effect canonical science, if you prefer.

#345
RiouHotaru

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AxoneNeurone wrote...
I sense traces of sarcasm... Or perhaps it's just the inefficiencies of text-based communication rearing their ugly heads. At any rate, allow me to propose an addendum:

The lack of fringe doesn't jive with SCIENCE aspects that were previously established by Bioware for the Mass Effect universe. Mass Effect canonical science, if you prefer.


Indeed.  I don't think the lack of fringe is a racial trait, due to what established canon has told us.  I'm fairly certain there's some other explanation.

#346
ShadyKat

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I'm just going to chalk up the female Turian, to crappy art work from Dark Horse. Bioware would not have held off on putting female Turians in ME1&2 if all they were going to look like were fringe-less males. They were going to make them look like the males at first, but one of the devs said that idea was dropped.

Image IPB

Image IPB

This is how they should look. Still looks just like the males, just thinner and more  fimmine looking.

#347
Guest_AwesomeName_*

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Bioware, if you wanna keep the female turians looking like that in the games, fine - I think it's perfectly consistent with what we've heard about them so far; I don't have a problem if you guys wanna change the design a tad though... Glad we finally get to see them..

#348
RiouHotaru

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Oh hey, I recognize that bottom pic. Rica~ <3

#349
pikalex88

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@AxoneNeurone

That is a very good argument, I love seeing a fully developed response to a topic! I agree that the lack of bust if good, and I would be impressed if Bioware was willing to make the Turian idea of feminism completely different than the human ideal. For example most people seem to think the females must be slimmer, but this is purely a human ideal, it would be interesting if Turians subverted this trend.

What bothers me the most about that depiction is that it contradicts what Garrus has said about females having fringes. Ignoring the dialogue of some nameless character in a bar would be fine, but Garrus is the main Turian character and it would be ridiculous if he somehow didn't know what a female of his own species looked like. In my opinion, it would be a fairly large and noticeable thing to retcon.

One thing I'm very interested to see when a female Turian is revealed in game (which is when I will consider it to be the legitimate version) is to what point Bioware decided to make them recognizably different from males. One could argue that, like with birds of prey on Earth, their appearances might appear be very similar to humans. From what is available so far regarding Turian society it seems like there is a high level of equality, so it would be logical if females had an equal role in society that their appearance might not be too drastically different either.

Of course it would be equally interesting if female Turians were radically different than their male counterparts, and I would be most interested in differences in colour. In birds on Earth it is usually the male that is colourful, but since this doesn't have to hold true for an alien race they could be much more vibrant.



I'm pretty much going to disregard this version of the female Turian until something appears in game, hopefully in ME2.

#350
Guest_AwesomeName_*

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pikalex88 wrote...

What bothers me the most about that depiction is that it contradicts what Garrus has said about females having fringes. Ignoring the dialogue of some nameless character in a bar would be fine, but Garrus is the main Turian character and it would be ridiculous if he somehow didn't know what a female of his own species looked like. In my opinion, it would be a fairly large and noticeable thing to retcon.


:) Just some thoughts of mine on this:

AwesomeName wrote...

Is everyone saying the same thing when they use the word "fringe"?  Fringe just means "outermost edge"... That turian has a "fringe" - an edge to her forehead - it just doesn't end with extra crest "spikes".  She lacks a lot of the spikes that males have, but she has a fringe nonetheless.  Just a bit of semantics there, so not necessarily a big deal, I guess *shrugs*... 

I can sort of see some similarity to asari - I mean you can see how the tips of her fringe flare up a bit... So it's not necessarily a retcon if they all look like this - it's just a similarity that humans see as tenuous (as the guy at the bach. party does), but is something Turians possibly respond to straight away... 

This is slightly off-topic, but consider how the human visual cortex is designed to process certain visual information, e.g. when you see a face, your brain does a lot more than just show you the light bouncing off the face, that information goes through a complex process so that you actually see more.  This illusion demonstrates quite powerfully how the human brain responds to faces specifically (admittedly, that illusion doesn't work quite so well for me anymore - no idea why :/)..  Anyway, my point here is that Turian brains may, in a similar way, be hot wired to certain features on a Turian that we might take for granted...  Just something to think about, I suppose...[smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/smile.png[/smilie]


Modifié par AwesomeName, 22 janvier 2011 - 01:24 .