66 réponses à ce sujet

[Garvieloken]

Sorry to ask another question but say I get a new pc for xmas, can my saved game be saved online or is it only on my HD? Ie could I load it all onto my new pc, like steam games are kept online and thus can be reinstalled on any pc with same account.

[Varenus Luckmann]

Fernando Melo wrote...
We have a pretty good track record for supporting our games, and a little time to figure that one out 

Eventually getting shut down or ceasing support is rarely a willing decision. You having a great track record doesn't really help us when EA says that this has gone on long enough or you go belly up.

Fernando Melo wrote...
I'm not making fun of the issue - it is something we are working to find a solution for.  But the truth is that for now, this works as you would expect with any other game's DLC... as that is the nature of DLC.  It is dependent on a downloadable/online/server being there system.

That's just not true. Oblivion DLC used downloaded installers. The promotional knick-knacks for Baldur's Gate II were also install-able. Edit: Didn't Fallout 3 also use installers or simple mod attachments? //Edit

Fernando Melo wrote...
I'll confirm, as you may be able to do backups of the files as is, but regardless you would still need to go online to activate it later on or on another PC, so it doesn't completely answer your question.

So you're going to force us to towards piracy? I am not accusing you personally, of course, don't take it like that. But that's a horrible, horrible decision. Piracy creates pirates, so to say.

Because there's just no way I'm going to pay for a program without some kind of guarentee that I'll get it to work 5 years down the line, 10 years down the line, 20 years down the line. Piracy and workarounds can. Why can't you?

Modifié par Varenus Luckmann, 01 novembre 2009 - 03:41 .

[hotcoffeeburns]

Varenus Luckmann wrote...
So you're going to force us to towards piracy? I am not accusing you personally, of course, don't take it like that. But that's a horrible, horrible decision. Piracy creates pirates, so to say.

Because there's just no way I'm going to pay for a program without some kind of guarentee that I'll get it to work 5 years down the line, 10 years down the line, 20 years down the line. Piracy and workarounds can. Why can't you?

Thats a very pessimistic way to think about it. He said they have time and are still trying to figure it out. I am sure that if and when the servers that authenticate this stuff do go down in however many years, they'll release some sort of way to use your DLC separately without authentication.

[K K Slider]

Fernando Melo wrote...

And we're still working on showing the list of content you have here on social, although that may be shortly after launch however.

Not wishing to derail the thread but, yay!

[Herethos]

Hmm it turns out I now have two bioware accounts, one I made when playing around with the character editor or maybe it was from the flash game DA: Journey, and one from when I bought the first Neverwinter Nights would this cause any forseable problems in the future? Like incase I reg the game on my first "original" account where I have the other games regged, and switch between them ingame or would I have to buy any DLC's for both accounts or is it just enough to have it on one account and the game detects it is installed already?

[Varenus Luckmann]

hotcoffeeburns wrote...

Varenus Luckmann wrote...
So you're going to force us to towards piracy? I am not accusing you personally, of course, don't take it like that. But that's a horrible, horrible decision. Piracy creates pirates, so to say.

Because there's just no way I'm going to pay for a program without some kind of guarentee that I'll get it to work 5 years down the line, 10 years down the line, 20 years down the line. Piracy and workarounds can. Why can't you?

Thats a very pessimistic way to think about it. He said they have time and are still trying to figure it out. I am sure that if and when the servers that authenticate this stuff do go down in however many years, they'll release some sort of way to use your DLC separately without authentication.

That's a very naive way to think about it. If this is the system in place, I can see issues from here to Santa Fé cropping up. And that's a bloody long way.

And you assume that they'll release some sort of way to use your DLC seperately when the servers go down. I see it in an entirely different light - as long as they're alive, the servers won't go down. So when the servers do go down, they're not alive. Seeing the issue?

[SilentCid]

Joz8 wrote...

Fernando Melo wrote...

For DLC, you only need to go online to download it. It becomes activated for that account as part of that process. After that you do not need to be online to play DLC and you certainly never need to go online just to load a save game.

If you are trying to get to a DLC area or loading a saved game that had DLC active at the time, and it is asking you to login (or activate) then my guess is that you logged in with a different account than what you originally grabbed the DLC with, so it is asking for you to confirm that this new account is also an owner of this DLC before proceeding.

So you had to login to load a saved game. Is it possible then for a game to stay logged in(after initial downloading/activation of DLC) even after exiting(or loosing connection) or you should relogin for DLC-dependent save?

No you don't have to be logged in to load a saved game you only need to login to activate the DLC but if it is already active on your machine then you don't need to log in. If any chance that the game requires you to log in then it detects that the machine ( maybe you went on another computer to play your game) was never activated. Therefore you have to login that one time for the system to check if you are the owner of the DLC. 

[kevlarcardhouse]

Varenus Luckmann wrote...

That's just not true. Oblivion DLC used downloaded installers. The promotional knick-knacks for Baldur's Gate II were also install-able. Edit: Didn't Fallout 3 also use installers or simple mod attachments? //Edit

You are mistaken.  Both Oblivion and Fallout 3 involved online authentication both to download those installers and to actually run them unless they came in the GOTY editions.

Because there's just no way I'm going to pay for a program without some kind of guarentee that I'll get it to work 5 years down the line, 10 years down the line, 20 years down the line. Piracy and workarounds can. Why can't you?

I love how whenever someone hates the idea of online authentication because of some mystically unknown time 20 years from now they might see a problem running the game because of it, they always in the same breathe also acknowledge that workarounds will already find a solution to the problem, thus nullifying their entire argument.  Newflash: Possibly having to use a crack for DLC for the game nobody cares about anymore In your made up future where BioWare is out of business and computers have 106 cores does not enourage piracy.

Face it: computer technology is moving at an incredible rate.  We are already used to having to find workarounds to get games that were released years ago to work properly on a modern system.  If you're part of a community of people still playing this game years from now, either it's big enough to continue to be supported in some way, or it will be abandonware and no one will care, or something in the middle.  If I'm trying to install Dragon Age on a PC ten years from now, not only am I certain getting the DLC to work will not be a problem, it will probably be the least of my issues.  I'll be too busy trying to get my Windows 7 emulator and slowdown utilities to work properly with it.

[aries1001]

As for getting games to run under modern systems like Vista or the Newly released Windows 7 has been and will be a hassle; thankfully someone will go the extra mile to make sure we still will be able to play them. An adventure game called Shivers 2 can be played on Windows 7, nearly without any problems, a very ancient game called Grim Fandango can be played on Windows 7 as well. Dosbox and Scumm VM does great on Windows 7 as well. The only old game I haven't been able to get to work on any computers yet is a game called *Angel Devoid* bought before I did learn anything about system specifications.



Asking to be able to play a game more than 5 years or even more than 10 years in the future, is a little optimistic, I have to say. Looking back 10 years, who would have thought that we now would get a game that uses 20GB, not 2GB, or 500 MB like the full install that Fallout 1 required.



You will still be able to play the main game, DA: Origins 5-15 years in the future, I'd guess. IT is just the DLC that you won't be able to play, if the servers for activation goes down. I, however, like the idea that maybe 1½-2 (or three years) after the initial release of the DLC, the DLC no longer requires activation. [I think this was the case with the Premium Modules for NWN1; a patch removed the need for activation?]



I know that we in the adventure game community help each other out by finding ways to play old, good, adventure games on modern systems. Arcanum and Fallout games (the first two ones) have a dedicated fan base that will help getting these games to run, so has PS: Torment. And BG1 and BG2. I'm sure DA: Origins will have this as well...



Aren't we still waiting for the second patch for ME1?



Anyway, NWN1 receieved its latest patch some time this year of last year; that 7-8 year worth of support...

[DPB]

kevlarcardhouse wrote...

You are mistaken.  Both Oblivion and Fallout 3 involved online authentication both to download those installers and to actually run them unless they came in the GOTY editions.

And to add to that, Oblivion's DLC has no option to re-download, if you lose the installers you have pay again. Fallout 3 forces you to use Games For Windows Live.

[Cheiron the Centaur]

Varenus Luckmann wrote...
So you're going to force us to towards piracy? I am not accusing you personally, of course, don't take it like that. But that's a horrible, horrible decision. Piracy creates pirates, so to say.

Because there's just no way I'm going to pay for a program without some kind of guarentee that I'll get it to work 5 years down the line, 10 years down the line, 20 years down the line. Piracy and workarounds can. Why can't you?

If - and that is a very big if - Bioware should indeed go belly-up in 10 or 20 years, and by then they have not provided you with a way to continue using the software without online verification, then I'm sure they will not mind if at that time (and not a day sooner) you hack the game to remove that online verification.

But until then, even thinking of pirating the game or the DLC is absolute nonsense, and highly illegal. Remember that any attempts at piracy or at hacking the DLC can cost you your account, and all the DLC it contains!

For now, just lighten up and enjoy the game and the DLC as is! Just be happy that Bioware is offering us these DLC possibilities at all, instead of just doing an expansion pack in half a year or so, with both the game itself and the expansion heavily copy protected. I for one am very happy that Bioware is trying out these new (and a lot more consumer friendly) ways of getting the content to us while protecting themselves against piracy.

Modifié par Cheiron the Centaur, 01 novembre 2009 - 05:55 .

[Garvieloken]

Sorry to ask another question but say I get a new pc for xmas, can my saved game be saved online or is it only on my HD? Ie could I load it all onto my new pc, like steam games are kept online and thus can be reinstalled on any pc with same account.

[CaptFizz]

Thus far, I've been able to redeem my DLC codes but the downloads keep failing. I'm VERY disappointed with the DLC structure in place. Rather than having it be additional value, I feel like EA is simply trying to tangle shiny objects in front of people to make a quick buck. I certainly hope this situation is resolved promptly.

[Cheiron the Centaur]

@CaptFizz: with regard to the downloads, maybe you need to give Bioware a bit of time to work out the initial flaws of the system... it hasn't been tested on the big community yet.

As for additional value... Bioware have stated that, depending on how well the initial batch is received and what people are most interested in, they have lots of plans for additional DLC, from small stuff to very large expansion-style addons. So if it turns out that most people are not interested in purchasing 'shiny objects', then I'm sure we will not see anything of the kind among the next batch of DLC releases...

Modifié par Cheiron the Centaur, 01 novembre 2009 - 07:12 .

[Varenus Luckmann]

kevlarcardhouse wrote...
You are mistaken.  Both Oblivion and Fallout 3 involved online authentication both to download those installers and to actually run them unless they came in the GOTY editions.

I had no problem ripping the mod files straight out of the directory. I do no kind of online authentification when I reinstall either Oblivion or Fallout 3 and then slap on the DLCs. Nada. Nil. Zip.

kevlarcardhouse wrote...
I love how whenever someone hates the idea of online authentication because of some mystically unknown time 20 years from now they might see a problem running the game because of it, they always in the same breathe also acknowledge that workarounds will already find a solution to the problem, thus nullifying their entire argument.  Newflash: Possibly having to use a crack for DLC for the game nobody cares about anymore In your made up future where BioWare is out of business and computers have 106 cores does not enourage piracy.

Wait? What did I say? Let's go back and check. Oh, yeah. Piracy creates pirates.

kevlarcardhouse wrote...
Face it: computer technology is moving at an incredible rate.  We are already used to having to find workarounds to get games that were released years ago to work properly on a modern system.  If you're part of a community of people still playing this game years from now, either it's big enough to continue to be supported in some way, or it will be abandonware and no one will care, or something in the middle.  If I'm trying to install Dragon Age on a PC ten years from now, not only am I certain getting the DLC to work will not be a problem, it will probably be the least of my issues.  I'll be too busy trying to get my Windows 7 emulator and slowdown utilities to work properly with it.

WINBox7 will take care of that, don't you worry.
But your scenario depends entirely on how they've integrated the DLC into the game. Will it be easy to rip out? Will it be easy to block authentification? What is happening is a whole new world of workarounds that may or may not be possible. There are things 10 years or older that we still can't reverse-engineer or change the hardcoded "stuff" in.

This may not be as easy as you think. Not by a long shot.

Cheiron the Centaur wrote...
If - and that is a very big if - Bioware should indeed go belly-up in 10 or 20 years, and by then they have not provided you with a way to continue using the software without online verification, then I'm sure they will not mind if at that time (and not a day sooner) you hack the game to remove that online verification.

You should go back and read what I said. It's just not authentification servers. There's no way to save the DLC. There's actually no way to install the DLC without those same authentification servers. Presumably, since they went to such great lengths to prevent us from having an installer, it will also not be as easy as some make it out to be to rip the DLC out of the game after installation.

Cheiron the Centaur wrote...
But until then, even thinking of pirating the game or the DLC is absolute nonsense, and highly illegal. Remember that any attempts at piracy or at hacking the DLC can cost you your account, and all the DLC it contains!

That's actually quite interesting, although unrelated to the thread. If one have their account banned, what happens to the products he's paid for? Yet another noose around the neck of the consumer to keep him in line?

Cheiron the Centaur wrote...
For now, just lighten up and enjoy the game and the DLC as is! Just be happy that Bioware is offering us these DLC possibilities at all, instead of just doing an expansion pack in half a year or so, with both the game itself and the expansion heavily copy protected. I for one am very happy that Bioware is trying out these new (and a lot more consumer friendly) ways of getting the content to us while protecting themselves against piracy.

I don't buy into your "don't worry, be happy!" drug addled philisophy of free love. I don't see the "more consumer friendly" aspects of ripping the proverbial shirt of consumers and then splitting a few years down the line. Don't you see the problem with absolutely zero consumer rights or security?

And where is the protection against piracy, by offering a product that is inferior to the pirated product? If, and that's a big if, what you said earlier on how cracking the game and adding the DLCs without online verification is so easy, then there will be pirated versions available for both the game and the DLC, with zero online verification, which you can use for as long as you want without zero risks. Not only does that mean that they offer a superior product, but they're doing it for free.

The only way to combat piracy is to offer a superior product. This isn't it.

Modifié par Varenus Luckmann, 01 novembre 2009 - 08:41 .

[Varenus Luckmann]

Edit: Double-Post.

Modifié par Varenus Luckmann, 01 novembre 2009 - 08:27 .

[Cheiron the Centaur]

Neverwinter Nights had lots of nice DLC where you actually had to be online to play, and as far as I know, those never got pirated! Even today those very same DLC addons still work. Compared to that, I think the fact that you only need to be online to install/authenticate it, is a big improvement and extremely consumer friendly.



Anyway, the bottom line is: if you really don't have faith in Bioware's solution or in the fact that Bioware can survive the next 10 years (or that they will provide some kind of unlock if they don't), then just don't buy any DLC!

The disc-based game does not require any internet verification, only a simple disc check. That will still work 20 years from now.

It's that easy!

[Varenus Luckmann]

Cheiron the Centaur wrote...
Neverwinter Nights had lots of nice DLC where you actually had to be online to play, and as far as I know, those never got pirated!

[...]

Which only reinforces my point.

[gewthenKartoga]

Varenus Luckmann wrote...
Because there's just no way I'm going to pay for a program without some kind of guarentee that I'll get it to work 5 years down the line, 10 years down the line, 20 years down the line. Piracy and workarounds can. Why can't you?

This seems a bit demanding since 20 years down the road you'll probably have a current operating system that may not support the running of DA. All this backwards compatibility will eventually be dropped some point down the line. So enjoy the game while you can run it and move on. There will be better games than DA in the next 20 years that will make it look pathetic.

[Varenus Luckmann]

gewthenKartoga wrote...

Varenus Luckmann wrote...
Because there's just no way I'm going to pay for a program without some kind of guarentee that I'll get it to work 5 years down the line, 10 years down the line, 20 years down the line. Piracy and workarounds can. Why can't you?

This seems a bit demanding since 20 years down the road you'll probably have a current operating system that may not support the running of DA. All this backwards compatibility will eventually be dropped some point down the line. So enjoy the game while you can run it and move on. There will be better games than DA in the next 20 years that will make it look pathetic.

What are you, like, 12? There's loads of great 10-20y.o. games that is still fully playable with a bit of tweaking. 20 years is peanuts if the game is good.

Edit: Don't get hung up on "20 years". It could potentially be just 10 years, 5 years, or a bloody 2.

Modifié par Varenus Luckmann, 02 novembre 2009 - 01:47 .

[Chillwill]

If they need to shut down the servers they would most likely do the only reasonable thing and release a patch that removes the authentication. Thats what most serious digital retailers will have to do. Steam for example will remove all drm if they end up going under.

[Varenus Luckmann]

Chillwill wrote...
If they need to shut down the servers they would most likely do the only reasonable thing and release a patch that removes the authentication. Thats what most serious digital retailers will have to do.

As I said before, even if they were to remove the authentification, and that's still a serious if, there's the issue of there not being any seperate installers for DLC.

Chillwill wrote...
Steam for example will remove all drm if they end up going under.

I love how you're naive enough to just assume that they would. After all, why would they? Even if they get the chance.

[Azzeo]

Varenus lets just forget it for now. In 200 years when we are all still playing and you can't get your luck ring to work properly, you can tell us all you told us so

I do agree with you though, Bioware games are often so wonderful that they maintain their appeal for years after the technology is out of date. Lets give Bioware a round of applause for that achievement and trust them to come through in other areas.



Regarding the question about transferring saves from one computer to the other; you should be able to manually back up your own saves on a USB device pretty easily.

[Varenus Luckmann]

It's actually kinda sad that I trust a legion of pirates more than I trust any kind of corporation. D: