klarabella wrote...
KnightofPhoenix wrote...
Not destroy, weaken. And a strong domestic local government. Not a foreign government when Ferelden has potential.
By destroy I mean "destroy them politically". You can call it "weakening them" if you wish, but eventually it would mean either they give up power voluntarily or your Cousland will make them part with their power, property and maybe even their life. I don't see any difference.
The difference is a domestic formula for reforms vs a foreign one.
Second, the system I have in mind is very different from the Orlesian one, both on the governmental level and social level.
And now I found the post I made a month ago:
"I really don't see why Ferelden and Orlais should unite at all.
But even if they should, let's call that plan by what it really is. Annexation and assimilation. Why?
Because weak nations allied with much stronger nations will sooner or later lose their independence, for a whole mess of reasons (Ask Athens' or Rome's allies and how they ended up being absorbed into an Empire, losing their independence).
Few things to consider:
A- Orlais' demographic advantage. Its population can swallow Ferelden whole, via ressetlements and migrations.
B- Orlais' military superiority. With that in mind, Ferelden has no real political leverage and its provision of manpower, while it can be used as a pressure tool, will only be to delay the inevitable (assimilation).
C- Orlais' economic superiority. It's the most powerful nation in Thedas today and I presume the richest. Ferelden is a poor backwater. Orlais is bound to already have some economic influence that I believe will only increase with any sort of "union". It is entirely possible that Fereldans would in fact start migrating to Orlais itself, because I presume there is more economic activity there.
D- Orlais' cultural superiority. It's the seat of the Chantry and evidently more sophisticated than Ferelden. With Orlesian merchants and migrations (in either side) will inevitably expose Fereldans to a much superior culture. They might be resilient to Orlesian brutality (because the Orlesians were stupid), but such a simple minded (and sometimes very idiotic) people will be influenced quite easily.
E- Orlais' system itself vs that of Ferelden. Whatever one might feel about either system, it's seems clear that the nobility in Orlais, while pitted against each other by the Emperors, are still pretty loyal to the Crown and indebted (otherwise why fight for his / her favor). Compare that to Ferelden nobility, most of whom accepted an Orlesian occupation despite its brutality. Now what will happen if the Orlesians decided to coopt the nobles and not brutalise them? Most will stfu and not bite the hand that feeds them. Instantly rendering Ferelden's political system under Orlesian control. Add how divisive they are (and because they control armies, their pettiness is more dangerous than Orlesian in-bickering), and you don't have a political system in Ferelden capable of resisting any encroachement, whether in the short or long term. The Landsmeet is quite frankly a joke and a few bribes and infighting will silence it.
F- Orlais' leadership vs that of Ferelden. I think it's pretty obvious that Cailan is a moron, or at the very least inept. Everyone knows that it's Anora who rules and even controlled Cailan. Now add the hints about Empress Celene assassinating her way to the throne and being considereda good ruler. Now who do you think will rule this happy "union"? Cailan? Recieving an Emperor's crown on one's empty head does not make one the real ruler. It might simply satisfy a poor child's inferiority compex that is hidden by a childish lust for glory. Now with everything I just said, what do you think wil be the capital? Denerim? Or Val-Royeaux? Clearly the latter. Where will Cailan's children be raised? The backwater Ferelden? The most likely outcome is that the heirs to the "union" are going to be Orlesian in both mind and spirit and will probably want to distance themselves from their barbaric ancestry (If I was the ruler of Nevarra and I saw those upstarts ruling Orlais without acting like Orlesians, I'd laugh).
So with all that in mind, for the king of a country to willingly give up his country's independence to put a "gloriest" crown on his empty head (only to be controlled by Celene, so it's not even pragmatic lust for power),or worse, for the king to actually think that he is bringing peace while in reality is probably only dooming his nation unnecessarily, this I can only see as idiocy of the highest order. The only results I can see are either another civil war, or Ferelden assimilated by Orlais, or both. Even if Ferelden remains officially independent (just like my country was just officially being "mandated" by a benevolent western power because that's how much they love us), its loss of real sovereignity is almost axiomatic.
Now in the larger scheme of things, this is not a catastrophe. And it's no secret that I find Ferelden semi-civilized and unimpressive in general and idiotic occasionally. However, despite it all, I can't help but feel something
for that pathetic excuse of a country (damn you Bioware). I believe it has potential. So from that perspective and from the perspective of Fereldans who are actually smart enough to realize what is going on (which I suspect will be a tiny minority, most of whom not nobles), sucha plan is undesirable and unnecessary and from a Ferelden's interest point of view, stupid.
Rapprochement with Orlais is necesssary, Orlais is just next door and that's the reality of it. However, Ferelden
has much more options that do not involve forsaking the independence that it fought hard to achieve.
I am all for Empires, believe me. I like them. But when a people willingly subjugate themselves for no real reasons and no real emergency, I can't feel anything for them except disrespect (and fake respect of course if I happen to be part of that Empire).
And don't tell me the blight was the emergency. Cailan is not only unsure of it, but the only reason why he thinks thereis a blight is because he actually wants one. Also, accepting foreign aid (which I would consider to be unwise initially) does not mean forming a "merger". Cailan could have gotten his assistance from Orlais, perhaps with concessions and an alliance, without even considering such a plan that benefits Orlais much more than it would Ferelden. It's all about
relative power and not absolute gains. No matter how much the weak might benefit, if the stronger nation benefits more (which it inevitably will unless it's actually stupid enough to get itself into a deal that weakens its relative position), the status quo is not only maintained, but is shifted even more to the strong's benefit (while the weak enjoy the illusion of absolute gain). This plan is so brilliant that I think Celene masterminded it completely and I love her for it. "
Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 21 février 2011 - 07:44 .
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