764 réponses à ce sujet

[Persephone]

JFarr74 wrote...

Can we stop acting like this is a real life sitaution...it's a freaking video game! Why are we getting all political and taking text from the game?

Game/Movie/book......doesn't matter. Some people's definitions of "justice" make me glad that they can only butcher people IN a game.

[Addai]

I agree that killing Loghain in the LM is justifiable. Justice in a medieval setting is harsh. By the same token, his ordering the Wardens and Eamon to be executed is understandable from that point of view. Both have their tragedy, however.

I said it made for a better story to see it all as grey, but I'm glad I'm not playing Origins anymore since I'd agonize over the choice a lot more these days than I used to. Pathos sucks.

[Bahlgan]

Loghain should die. Period.

[Giggles_Manically]

Bahlgan wrote...

Loghain should die. Period.

Yeah... welll..that's just like your opionion man.

Also:
Wynne should die. Period. 

[Bahlgan]

Giggles_Manically wrote...

Bahlgan wrote...

Loghain should die. Period.

Yeah... welll..that's just like your opionion man.

Also:
Wynne should die. Period. 

It's a strong opinion that most I have seen seem to share.  Besides, he has done far much worse than others I know. I won't even mention them anymore. Because it's not as if those he fed to the darkspawn in the battle of Ostagar and deserting the field are horrible characteristics....

Haha Wynne is much better of a person than you, I give her kudos for that much at least.

Don't like it? It's ok to cry 

[Glorfindel709]

This is going to be interesting.

Also, death to the old biddy!

[Persephone]

Bahlgan wrote...

Giggles_Manically wrote...

Bahlgan wrote...

Loghain should die. Period.

Yeah... welll..that's just like your opionion man.

Also:
Wynne should die. Period. 

It's a strong opinion that most I have seen seem to share.  Besides, he has done far much worse than others I know. I won't even mention them anymore. Because it's not as if those he fed to the darkspawn in the battle of Ostagar and deserting the field are horrible characteristics....

Haha Wynne is much better of a person than you, I give her kudos for that much at least.

Don't like it? It's ok to cry 

Who cares about what "most" share? I'll not be part of a herd mentality, thanks.

He did not "feed" anyone to the darkspawn, Cailan's idiocy and the delayed beacon did that much more than Loghain's decision to retreat.

As for the preachy, deluded meddler........MEH.

[Persephone]

Addai67 wrote...

I agree that killing Loghain in the LM is justifiable. Justice in a medieval setting is harsh. By the same token, his ordering the Wardens and Eamon to be executed is understandable from that point of view. Both have their tragedy, however.

I said it made for a better story to see it all as grey, but I'm glad I'm not playing Origins anymore since I'd agonize over the choice a lot more these days than I used to. Pathos sucks.

I'm with you there, Addai, you know this. But you also know how I feel about some "reasons" that sadly are more "popular" than most because....oh well, you know.

[Giggles_Manically]

Glorfindel709 wrote...




This is going to be interesting.

Also, death to the old biddy!

Nah.

Bahlgan operates on such a low level that it would take me far too long to get down there.
I have school work that needs doing really.

[TEWR]

well Loghain did abandon Cailan on purpose, as the beacon had nothing to do with him being forced to retreat. If you look in the background when Cauthrien sounds the retreat, you can see thousands of soldiers all moving to the right of the screen, not just the obvious soldiers we see.

Still, he's a patriot, if a misguided and idiotic one, and for that I can't really fault him. What he did was horrible yes. But even so, the harsh upbringing he had under Orlesian rule must've taken a toll on his rational thinking. Riordan said it best when you say Loghain isn't exactly loyal, the Grey Wardens accept all and what does loyalty matter, when the Grey Wardens fight for one reason. So that others won't have to.

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 28 février 2011 - 08:53 .

[everittdaniel]

Semi-related - having a hard time trying to figure out what actions to do to get the following at the epilogue, if possible

Male human noble and anora rule together. MHN has performed dark ritual with morrigan.
Alistair alive but not a drunk


Is this possible, and what actions do I need to do to get it? Am I going to have to kill Loghain (or have him killed / ultimate sacrifice?)

[ZeBlob987]

everittdaniel wrote...

Semi-related - having a hard time trying to figure out what actions to do to get the following at the epilogue, if possible

Male human noble and anora rule together. MHN has performed dark ritual with morrigan.
Alistair alive but not a drunk


Is this possible, and what actions do I need to do to get it? Am I going to have to kill Loghain (or have him killed / ultimate sacrifice?)

iirc, just have him kill Loghain so Anora will marry you
I believe Alistair remains a Warden in that case

[ZeBlob987]

double post smh

Modifié par ZeBlob987, 01 mars 2011 - 12:45 .

[Face of Evil]

The truth is that Loghain was a good man who made great sacrifices for his country. Everything he did, he did for the "good" of Ferelden.

That does not erase the vileness of his acts, all committed in the name of combating an enemy that did not exist. That does not change the fact that he knew his actions were immoral, or that he nearly destroyed Feredeln in the name of saving it. It makes him no less the supremely arrogant bastard that he actually is.

It is precisely because Teryn Loghain was a good man that I despise him. Nothing less than his death and a black mark upon his legend will satisfy me.

Persephone wrote...

Extremes have only ever lead to tragedy and strife. As for such bloodlust.....I find it to be abhorrent. So much for The "Hero" of Ferelden. Butcher, more like.

Oh, I'll wear that title gladly, if the alternative is trying to squeeze Loghain into a pair of leather pants.

Modifié par Face of Evil, 01 mars 2011 - 01:43 .

[TJPags]

ZeBlob987 wrote...

everittdaniel wrote...

Semi-related - having a hard time trying to figure out what actions to do to get the following at the epilogue, if possible

Male human noble and anora rule together. MHN has performed dark ritual with morrigan.
Alistair alive but not a drunk


Is this possible, and what actions do I need to do to get it? Am I going to have to kill Loghain (or have him killed / ultimate sacrifice?)

iirc, just have him kill Loghain so Anora will marry you
I believe Alistair remains a Warden in that case

Yup - this is correct.  Have Alistair kill Loghain.

Really, the only reason to let Loghain live is to make Alistair run off as a drunk. 

(Yes, I dislike Alistair that much, that I'd keep Loghain around in order to get rid of him).

[Persephone]

Face of Evil wrote...

The truth is that Loghain was a good man who made great sacrifices for his country. Everything he did, he did for the "good" of Ferelden.

That does not erase the vileness of his acts, all committed in the name of combating an enemy that did not exist. That does not change the fact that he knew his actions were immoral, or that he nearly destroyed Feredeln in the name of saving it. It makes him no less the supremely arrogant bastard that he actually is.

It is precisely because Teryn Loghain was a good man that I despise him. Nothing less than his death and a black mark upon his legend will satisfy me.

Persephone wrote...

Extremes have only ever lead to tragedy and strife. As for such bloodlust.....I find it to be abhorrent. So much for The "Hero" of Ferelden. Butcher, more like.

Oh, I'll wear that title gladly, if the alternative is trying to squeeze Loghain into a pair of leather pants.

Thank you for proving my point regarding extremes and b/w thinking. Never mind explaining why being vengeful isn't exactly a virtue. And spare me the condescending "fangirl" accusation. It's old and doesn't hold any valid argument.

Never mind that the enemy DOES exist. Have you played "Return To Ostagar" and grasped what those papers in Cailan's chest actually mean? Legions of Chevaliers amassing at the border "don't exist"? 

KOP has put it very nicely once: There are as many good reasons to kill him as there are not to kill him.

[Persephone]

TJPags wrote...

ZeBlob987 wrote...

everittdaniel wrote...

Semi-related - having a hard time trying to figure out what actions to do to get the following at the epilogue, if possible

Male human noble and anora rule together. MHN has performed dark ritual with morrigan.
Alistair alive but not a drunk


Is this possible, and what actions do I need to do to get it? Am I going to have to kill Loghain (or have him killed / ultimate sacrifice?)

iirc, just have him kill Loghain so Anora will marry you
I believe Alistair remains a Warden in that case

Yup - this is correct.  Have Alistair kill Loghain.

Really, the only reason to let Loghain live is to make Alistair run off as a drunk. 
.

No.

[Persephone]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

well Loghain did abandon Cailan on purpose, as the beacon had nothing to do with him being forced to retreat. If you look in the background when Cauthrien sounds the retreat, you can see thousands of soldiers all moving to the right of the screen, not just the obvious soldiers we see.

David Gaider disagrees. But never mind him. <_<

[KnightofPhoenix]

Persephone wrote...
KOP has put it very nicely once: There are as many good reasons to kill him as there are not to kill him.

I said that?...Eum I mean yes! Of course I said that.

Can't believe I am being quoted

[Persephone]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Persephone wrote...
KOP has put it very nicely once: There are as many good reasons to kill him as there are not to kill him.

I said that?...Eum I mean yes! Of course I said that.

Can't believe I am being quoted

Am I being misquoting you? If I did, I apologize, KOP. :happy:

[KnightofPhoenix]

I actually do remember saying something like that. I would say it right now in fact. It's something I've always believed.

[Persephone]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

I actually do remember saying something like that. I would say it right now in fact. It's something I've always believed.

It's a view I admire because, yes, my affection for the character does tip the scale a lot. But it isn't my only reason at all.

[TJPags]

Persephone wrote...

TJPags wrote...

ZeBlob987 wrote...

everittdaniel wrote...

Semi-related - having a hard time trying to figure out what actions to do to get the following at the epilogue, if possible

Male human noble and anora rule together. MHN has performed dark ritual with morrigan.
Alistair alive but not a drunk


Is this possible, and what actions do I need to do to get it? Am I going to have to kill Loghain (or have him killed / ultimate sacrifice?)

iirc, just have him kill Loghain so Anora will marry you
I believe Alistair remains a Warden in that case

Yup - this is correct.  Have Alistair kill Loghain.

Really, the only reason to let Loghain live is to make Alistair run off as a drunk. 
.

No.

Now now - the first part of what I said is completely correct.  To get the HNM and Anora married, with Alistair alive and not a drunk, one must have Alistair kill Loghain.

The second part I am well aware that you diagree with.