JFarr74 wrote...
I felt bad about killing him, so I let him live...
TJPags wrote...
JFarr74 wrote...
I felt bad about killing him, so I let him live...
I only once let someone else kill him - my first game, as a cousland, who wanted to be king, but needed Loghain dead.
Since then, everyone but my Couslands kill him themselves . . .why let others do what you can enjoy doing yourself?
akayasha wrote...
I really, REALLY wanted to spare him, but then Alistar would have flipped (He did when I was going to spare him), so I couldn't. Alistar killed him.
Amazon Queen wrote...
Wereparrot wrote...
Amazon Queen wrote...
Mustang678 wrote...
Can't handle someone who directly betrayed his king, especially as a human noble. Had the circumstances been different or myself not a roleplayer I may've been able to spare him
His other actions like attacking the Grey Wardens,
All two of them? Killing two Wardens would not weaken Ferelden by anything like a significant amount if we are referring to Orlais. Anyway, I think I share Loghain's atitude to the Wardens, or at least some of it. Giving safe harbour to an organisation that owes you no fealty is a possible prelude to disaster. I find the idea that the Wardens answer to Weissaupt and not Ferelden to be very disturbing.poisoning Arl Eamon.
I really find it hard to sympathize with this, because to my mind Eamon proves himself to be a traitor by rebelling against Anora.
There were other wardens at Ostagar and the bounty was on wardens in general, not just the PC and Alistair. He also imprisoned Riordan. I can understand his suspicion of them. The Templars evoked a similar reaction but like them or not they're needed to defeat Blights.
Eamon didn't rebel before he was poisoned. Also Anora wasn't confirmed Queen by the Landsmeet then. Eamon never rebelled since Anora was never the rightful ruler. He just challanged Loghains choosing who ruled after Cailan. Thats my problem with Loghain, his conviction that only he can make the right decisions for Feralden when his decisions were almost as bad as Cailans.
The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...
Wereparrot wrote...
All two of them? Killing two Wardens would not weaken Ferelden by anything like a significant amount if we are referring to Orlais. Anyway, I think I share Loghain's atitude to the Wardens, or at least some of it. Giving safe harbour to an organisation that owes you no fealty is a possible prelude to disaster. I find the idea that the Wardens answer to Weissaupt and not Ferelden to be very disturbing.poisoning Arl Eamon.
I really find it hard to sympathize with this, because to my mind Eamon proves himself to be a traitor by rebelling against Anora.
ok one: Grey Wardens show no fealty to any country so as to maintain a state of neutrality. Their primary concern, as well as their only concern, is to combat the Darkspawn. To that end, getting involved in political affairs would jeopardize their status in other countries. If they took up arms in support of one country in a war, the other country might not want the Grey Wardens in their land anymore.
Modifié par Wereparrot, 03 mars 2011 - 06:49 .
Wereparrot wrote...
Amazon Queen wrote...
Wereparrot wrote...
Amazon Queen wrote...
Mustang678 wrote...
Can't handle someone who directly betrayed his king, especially as a human noble. Had the circumstances been different or myself not a roleplayer I may've been able to spare him
His other actions like attacking the Grey Wardens,
All two of them? Killing two Wardens would not weaken Ferelden by anything like a significant amount if we are referring to Orlais. Anyway, I think I share Loghain's atitude to the Wardens, or at least some of it. Giving safe harbour to an organisation that owes you no fealty is a possible prelude to disaster. I find the idea that the Wardens answer to Weissaupt and not Ferelden to be very disturbing.poisoning Arl Eamon.
I really find it hard to sympathize with this, because to my mind Eamon proves himself to be a traitor by rebelling against Anora.
There were other wardens at Ostagar and the bounty was on wardens in general, not just the PC and Alistair. He also imprisoned Riordan. I can understand his suspicion of them. The Templars evoked a similar reaction but like them or not they're needed to defeat Blights.
Eamon didn't rebel before he was poisoned. Also Anora wasn't confirmed Queen by the Landsmeet then. Eamon never rebelled since Anora was never the rightful ruler. He just challanged Loghains choosing who ruled after Cailan. Thats my problem with Loghain, his conviction that only he can make the right decisions for Feralden when his decisions were almost as bad as Cailans.
But the bounty was only enforced after Ostagar, so yes, just the two of them.
I cannot quote it, but Gaider said previously that Anora is the queen. I happen to agree. I believe that by law the Theirin line has failed because of Alistair's illegitimacy, and Anora becomes queen by virtue of being the only known living relative of Cailan, albeit not by blood.
Amazon Queen wrote...
Wereparrot wrote...
Amazon Queen wrote...
Wereparrot wrote...
Amazon Queen wrote...
Mustang678 wrote...
Can't handle someone who directly betrayed his king, especially as a human noble. Had the circumstances been different or myself not a roleplayer I may've been able to spare him
His other actions like attacking the Grey Wardens,
All two of them? Killing two Wardens would not weaken Ferelden by anything like a significant amount if we are referring to Orlais. Anyway, I think I share Loghain's atitude to the Wardens, or at least some of it. Giving safe harbour to an organisation that owes you no fealty is a possible prelude to disaster. I find the idea that the Wardens answer to Weissaupt and not Ferelden to be very disturbing.poisoning Arl Eamon.
I really find it hard to sympathize with this, because to my mind Eamon proves himself to be a traitor by rebelling against Anora.
There were other wardens at Ostagar and the bounty was on wardens in general, not just the PC and Alistair. He also imprisoned Riordan. I can understand his suspicion of them. The Templars evoked a similar reaction but like them or not they're needed to defeat Blights.
Eamon didn't rebel before he was poisoned. Also Anora wasn't confirmed Queen by the Landsmeet then. Eamon never rebelled since Anora was never the rightful ruler. He just challanged Loghains choosing who ruled after Cailan. Thats my problem with Loghain, his conviction that only he can make the right decisions for Feralden when his decisions were almost as bad as Cailans.
But the bounty was only enforced after Ostagar, so yes, just the two of them.
I cannot quote it, but Gaider said previously that Anora is the queen. I happen to agree. I believe that by law the Theirin line has failed because of Alistair's illegitimacy, and Anora becomes queen by virtue of being the only known living relative of Cailan, albeit not by blood.
Well thats possible but in real life titles are inherited by blood relatives, even if distant or illegitimate, before spouses. I've never seen anything to indicate Feralden is different.
Wereparrot wrote...
Amazon Queen wrote...
Wereparrot wrote...
Amazon Queen wrote...
Wereparrot wrote...
Amazon Queen wrote...
Mustang678 wrote...
Can't handle someone who directly betrayed his king, especially as a human noble. Had the circumstances been different or myself not a roleplayer I may've been able to spare him
His other actions like attacking the Grey Wardens,
All two of them? Killing two Wardens would not weaken Ferelden by anything like a significant amount if we are referring to Orlais. Anyway, I think I share Loghain's atitude to the Wardens, or at least some of it. Giving safe harbour to an organisation that owes you no fealty is a possible prelude to disaster. I find the idea that the Wardens answer to Weissaupt and not Ferelden to be very disturbing.poisoning Arl Eamon.
I really find it hard to sympathize with this, because to my mind Eamon proves himself to be a traitor by rebelling against Anora.
There were other wardens at Ostagar and the bounty was on wardens in general, not just the PC and Alistair. He also imprisoned Riordan. I can understand his suspicion of them. The Templars evoked a similar reaction but like them or not they're needed to defeat Blights.
Eamon didn't rebel before he was poisoned. Also Anora wasn't confirmed Queen by the Landsmeet then. Eamon never rebelled since Anora was never the rightful ruler. He just challanged Loghains choosing who ruled after Cailan. Thats my problem with Loghain, his conviction that only he can make the right decisions for Feralden when his decisions were almost as bad as Cailans.
But the bounty was only enforced after Ostagar, so yes, just the two of them.
I cannot quote it, but Gaider said previously that Anora is the queen. I happen to agree. I believe that by law the Theirin line has failed because of Alistair's illegitimacy, and Anora becomes queen by virtue of being the only known living relative of Cailan, albeit not by blood.
Well thats possible but in real life titles are inherited by blood relatives, even if distant or illegitimate, before spouses. I've never seen anything to indicate Feralden is different.
I base my arguments on the English monarchy. No bastard has ever been an heir; if they do become king they are a usurper. The possible exception to the rule is William I, and the evidence that Edward the Confessor made William his heir is William's own word through the Bayeaux tapestry, and so must be taken with a pinch of salt.
The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...
so by your logic wereparrot, if a nation's Grey Wardens were overrun and killed, let's say the Orlesian Wardens were all killed, and Orlais had been swallowed up by the Blight, all the other Wardens who are in other countries (Anderfels, Ferelden, Free Marches), they should just go "Well it's just Orlais. I swore an oath here. I shouldn't go down and help them because my oath is for here, despite the Blight being a very big threat. But it's all good."
yea.. uh... no. just no.
Amazon Queen wrote...
Wereparrot wrote...
Amazon Queen wrote...
Wereparrot wrote...
Amazon Queen wrote...
Wereparrot wrote...
Amazon Queen wrote...
Mustang678 wrote...
Can't handle someone who directly betrayed his king, especially as a human noble. Had the circumstances been different or myself not a roleplayer I may've been able to spare him
His other actions like attacking the Grey Wardens,
All two of them? Killing two Wardens would not weaken Ferelden by anything like a significant amount if we are referring to Orlais. Anyway, I think I share Loghain's atitude to the Wardens, or at least some of it. Giving safe harbour to an organisation that owes you no fealty is a possible prelude to disaster. I find the idea that the Wardens answer to Weissaupt and not Ferelden to be very disturbing.poisoning Arl Eamon.
I really find it hard to sympathize with this, because to my mind Eamon proves himself to be a traitor by rebelling against Anora.
There were other wardens at Ostagar and the bounty was on wardens in general, not just the PC and Alistair. He also imprisoned Riordan. I can understand his suspicion of them. The Templars evoked a similar reaction but like them or not they're needed to defeat Blights.
Eamon didn't rebel before he was poisoned. Also Anora wasn't confirmed Queen by the Landsmeet then. Eamon never rebelled since Anora was never the rightful ruler. He just challanged Loghains choosing who ruled after Cailan. Thats my problem with Loghain, his conviction that only he can make the right decisions for Feralden when his decisions were almost as bad as Cailans.
But the bounty was only enforced after Ostagar, so yes, just the two of them.
I cannot quote it, but Gaider said previously that Anora is the queen. I happen to agree. I believe that by law the Theirin line has failed because of Alistair's illegitimacy, and Anora becomes queen by virtue of being the only known living relative of Cailan, albeit not by blood.
Well thats possible but in real life titles are inherited by blood relatives, even if distant or illegitimate, before spouses. I've never seen anything to indicate Feralden is different.
I base my arguments on the English monarchy. No bastard has ever been an heir; if they do become king they are a usurper. The possible exception to the rule is William I, and the evidence that Edward the Confessor made William his heir is William's own word through the Bayeaux tapestry, and so must be taken with a pinch of salt.
No spouse has been an heir either except William III and he made it a condition of his overthrowing James II that he and Mary were to be joint monarchs but that was long after the medeval period. However bastards do inherit titles before spouses as do brothers, uncles, second cousins twice removed.
Amazon Queen wrote...
Wereparrot wrote...
Amazon Queen wrote...
Wereparrot wrote...
Amazon Queen wrote...
Wereparrot wrote...
Amazon Queen wrote...
Mustang678 wrote...
Can't handle someone who directly betrayed his king, especially as a human noble. Had the circumstances been different or myself not a roleplayer I may've been able to spare him
His other actions like attacking the Grey Wardens,
All two of them? Killing two Wardens would not weaken Ferelden by anything like a significant amount if we are referring to Orlais. Anyway, I think I share Loghain's atitude to the Wardens, or at least some of it. Giving safe harbour to an organisation that owes you no fealty is a possible prelude to disaster. I find the idea that the Wardens answer to Weissaupt and not Ferelden to be very disturbing.poisoning Arl Eamon.
I really find it hard to sympathize with this, because to my mind Eamon proves himself to be a traitor by rebelling against Anora.
There were other wardens at Ostagar and the bounty was on wardens in general, not just the PC and Alistair. He also imprisoned Riordan. I can understand his suspicion of them. The Templars evoked a similar reaction but like them or not they're needed to defeat Blights.
Eamon didn't rebel before he was poisoned. Also Anora wasn't confirmed Queen by the Landsmeet then. Eamon never rebelled since Anora was never the rightful ruler. He just challanged Loghains choosing who ruled after Cailan. Thats my problem with Loghain, his conviction that only he can make the right decisions for Feralden when his decisions were almost as bad as Cailans.
But the bounty was only enforced after Ostagar, so yes, just the two of them.
I cannot quote it, but Gaider said previously that Anora is the queen. I happen to agree. I believe that by law the Theirin line has failed because of Alistair's illegitimacy, and Anora becomes queen by virtue of being the only known living relative of Cailan, albeit not by blood.
Well thats possible but in real life titles are inherited by blood relatives, even if distant or illegitimate, before spouses. I've never seen anything to indicate Feralden is different.
I base my arguments on the English monarchy. No bastard has ever been an heir; if they do become king they are a usurper. The possible exception to the rule is William I, and the evidence that Edward the Confessor made William his heir is William's own word through the Bayeaux tapestry, and so must be taken with a pinch of salt.
However bastards do inherit titles before spouses as do brothers, uncles, second cousins twice removed.
Wereparrot wrote...
The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...
so by your logic wereparrot, if a nation's Grey Wardens were overrun and killed, let's say the Orlesian Wardens were all killed, and Orlais had been swallowed up by the Blight, all the other Wardens who are in other countries (Anderfels, Ferelden, Free Marches), they should just go "Well it's just Orlais. I swore an oath here. I shouldn't go down and help them because my oath is for here, despite the Blight being a very big threat. But it's all good."
yea.. uh... no. just no.
No, but the nation of your birth COMMANDS your fealty. To even suggest otherwise is to speak treason. Of course; countries help each other out, but not if it goes so far as to deny the duty to itself. If Orlais went to war with Ferelden, then if were king of Ferelden I would reasonably expect every soldier in the land to fight. If they do not, it only serves to weaken Ferelden.
The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...
Wereparrot wrote...
The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...
so by your logic wereparrot, if a nation's Grey Wardens were overrun and killed, let's say the Orlesian Wardens were all killed, and Orlais had been swallowed up by the Blight, all the other Wardens who are in other countries (Anderfels, Ferelden, Free Marches), they should just go "Well it's just Orlais. I swore an oath here. I shouldn't go down and help them because my oath is for here, despite the Blight being a very big threat. But it's all good."
yea.. uh... no. just no.
No, but the nation of your birth COMMANDS your fealty. To even suggest otherwise is to speak treason. Of course; countries help each other out, but not if it goes so far as to deny the duty to itself. If Orlais went to war with Ferelden, then if were king of Ferelden I would reasonably expect every soldier in the land to fight. If they do not, it only serves to weaken Ferelden.
except they're not soldiers. They're not part of an army. They are a force dedicated to fighting the Darkspawn only. They are not mercenaries either. They do not seek payment for their services, nor work for other countries in whatever acts said countries may want them for. This is precisely why they maintain a state of neutrality. Politics is not their concern.
Duncan even says that once you join the Grey Wardens, you will have no ties to your past life, which is akin to the Legion of the Dead. The Grey Wardens and the Legion of the Dead are like brother forces. They only fight the darkspawn.
Look at the founding of the Grey Wardens. The Anders people were fed up with the futile politics of their leaders as the Darkspawn were encroaching on their doorstep, so they took matters into their own hands and fought against the darkspawn.
Glorfindel709 wrote...
"Grey Wardens fight the Blight, regardless of where they're from."
Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 03 mars 2011 - 08:44 .
The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...
also, i could give examples of real world political moments to try and prove my point also, but this isn't England, nor France, Germany, or any other European country. Ferelden may be based on Europe (or england. I'm drawing a blank) but that does not mean they must follow the rules of those countries. Based on does not equate itself to being a copy of in all aspects.
The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...
oh ok this discussion ends when you say it does? Yea I think not.
One: Wardens used to fight on Griffons. So they fought in the air. I have taken your comment and turned it against you. Meh... Side note, i want to see what a Dragon age Griffon looks like in a future game.
And by what you just said you'd be a tyrannical ruler, forcing people who could care less about politics to fight. By that logic every person who can hold a sword should join your army. Let's give each 10 year old a sword so we can fight off all threats and be a stronger country! By making a person useful to the state, you are in turn making them care about politics. The state is politics. War is politics.j
edit: wanted to take your "soldiers on ground" comment literally as an excuse to mention griffons
Glorfindel709 wrote...
Facts are facts, Grey Wardens are an independent unit and maintain political neutrality to do their duties.
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