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[TEWR]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

That was tongue in cheek. Though a diplomatic visit to Nevarra would have been more useful.

It's hard for me to figure out tongue-in-cheek comments over the internet.

Why would Nevarra have been more useful? Can't be due to Cassandra, can it? She may be royalty, but there's no guarantee she was operating out of Nevarra.

[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

That was tongue in cheek. Though a diplomatic visit to Nevarra would have been more useful.

It's hard for me to figure out tongue-in-cheek comments over the internet.

Why would Nevarra have been more useful? Can't be due to Cassandra, can it? She may be royalty, but there's no guarantee she was operating out of Nevarra.

Because Nevarra is a very big and powerful nation with adversarial relations with Orlais. It also shares a large border that is conflicted. They would be a natural choice for a military/political alliance for Ferelden, and such an alliance would deter Orlais from trying to attack and invade Ferelden, for fear it would in turn be attacked and invaded by the Nevarrans.

It has nothing to do with anything in DA2, as far as reasons for the countries becoming allies. People were talking about it before Awakening was even released.

[TEWR]

huh. I must've missed out on that bit of game lore. interesting. That does make sense. But so does seeking the aid of the Champion.

Still, Nevarra may have been the better choice. Where is Nevarra in relation to Orlais though? is it like:

Nevarra/Orlais/Ferelden

or

Orlais/Ferelden
Nevarra.

Basically on a map, where is Nevarra situated?

[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

huh. I must've missed out on that bit of game lore. interesting. That does make sense. But so does seeking the aid of the Champion.

Still, Nevarra may have been the better choice. Where is Nevarra in relation to Orlais though? is it like:

Nevarra/Orlais/Ferelden

or

Orlais/Ferelden
Nevarra.

Basically on a map, where is Nevarra situated?

Basically, it occupies a good amount of Orlais' northern border. Here's a map of Thedas for a better view: 

[JFarr74]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

she's not in the game JFarr. She's only mentioned by people

That' stupid!

[JFarr74]

JFarr74 wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

she's not in the game JFarr. She's only mentioned by people

That' stupid!

Just Kidding LOL

[TEWR]

I don't know why but the image doesn't want to show up at all in your post.

[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

Try the link instead:

images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100721040626/dragonage/images/8/80/ThedasMap.jpg

[TEWR]

huh.

well according to that map, the Free Marches is right next to Nevarra. There's nothing saying Alistair didn't visit Nevarra before the Free Marches. Likewise there is nothing saying he did.

Then again, maybe he chose the Free Marches because of the close proximity to Ferelden should an invasion by Orlais unexpectedly occur and he needed to hightail it back there.

There are a myriad of valid reasons that could explain why he chose the Free Marches.

[JFarr74]

Ain't nothin' free about the Free Marches!

[Tomomi]

Now I wonder, is there any other material out there beside DA:O (with its expansion and DLC) and DA2 that relate to this Thedas world? I did notice a couple published novels about Dragon Age, do they count? Because, in all of its seriousness, I feel there is not enough materials for this world. We only travel around this tiny Fereldan country, and DA2 even let us confined into a city-state of Kirkwall. I find that limiting, but with a lot of potential.

This relates a lot of Lords of the Ring, as the original author is so reveled with his work. I do agree that he even developed a limited version of Elvish language. Such dedication alone is amazing. I just don't like the actual theme so much because it revolves around such a limited character base. And so many products (rather lousy and commercialized) about Lords of the Ring that make me feel sick of it.

To original topic: Loghain should die. No matter what his intension was, his actions at Ostagar was clearly despicable. He is willing to sell out anyone or anything (even his own daughter) for personal gain. He sold out his own King, the Grey Wardens, and if given the chance, he will sell his soul to Archdemon and turns against his nation that he had been so preachy to protect. That is just who he is. Now, just because I think he should die doesn't mean he should die in the story. The world is never that simple: good deeds are not always rewarded, and bad deeds aren't necessarily punished, like in a children story. "History is written by the winner" means something. But regardless, I see no reason to justify his actions as good, he sure makes a fine villan.

[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

huh.

well according to that map, the Free Marches is right next to Nevarra. There's nothing saying Alistair didn't visit Nevarra before the Free Marches. Likewise there is nothing saying he did.

Then again, maybe he chose the Free Marches because of the close proximity to Ferelden should an invasion by Orlais unexpectedly occur and he needed to hightail it back there.

There are a myriad of valid reasons that could explain why he chose the Free Marches.

The Free Marches aren't a unified nation, they are a loose collection of city states. Thus, since they have no king or central army, you would have to deal with several different city states. And alone, none of them would make decent allies for Ferelden. Nevarra on the otherhand, is an actual country, complete with military and monarchy. And they are starting to rival Orlais in power. Thus, Nevarra for many reasons would be preferable.

Of course, like you said, that's not to say  that Alistair hasn't or won't be visiting Nevarra at some point. He does have advisors and a chencellor who would have probably firmly recommended it.

[TEWR]

Skadi_the_Evil_Elf wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

huh.

well according to that map, the Free Marches is right next to Nevarra. There's nothing saying Alistair didn't visit Nevarra before the Free Marches. Likewise there is nothing saying he did.

Then again, maybe he chose the Free Marches because of the close proximity to Ferelden should an invasion by Orlais unexpectedly occur and he needed to hightail it back there.

There are a myriad of valid reasons that could explain why he chose the Free Marches.

The Free Marches aren't a unified nation, they are a loose collection of city states. Thus, since they have no king or central army, you would have to deal with several different city states. And alone, none of them would make decent allies for Ferelden. Nevarra on the otherhand, is an actual country, complete with military and monarchy. And they are starting to rival Orlais in power. Thus, Nevarra for many reasons would be preferable.

Of course, like you said, that's not to say  that Alistair hasn't or won't be visiting Nevarra at some point. He does have advisors and a chencellor who would have probably firmly recommended it.

all valid points you've made. Then again, who's to say Nevarra would be willing to help Ferelden? We have no idea how their politics works.

[TEWR]

AwesomeEffect2 wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

AwesomeEffect2 wrote...

I’d like to discuss one more thing.

Retreating at Ostagar is one of the things I don't like about Loghain. I understand why he retreated and I also think that the battle was unwinnable. But deserting like that was one of the things that sparked the civil war.

Why couldn’t he attack the darkspawn, quickly get to Cailan and then retreat?

It probably would not have worked.  The front line was deep in the valley at the fortress because they were trying to draw the horde in so that Loghain could swing around and catch them in the flank.  But the horde was much larger than anticipated.  You can see them streaming off a hilliside with seemingly no end to their line. If he had flanked, he might have just ended up swallowed by the horde and trapped in the valley, too.  Maybe he'd have broken out, but at a great loss of life, and in his mind Ferelden was about to fight a two-front war against darkspawn and Orlesians.  So he decided to cut the losses and fight another day.

Ah c&%p, I didn't notice your reply.

@Addai, you still there?

Actually, I don't think the battle was unwinnable. If you look in the background when Cauthrien sounds the retreat, you will see tens of thousands of soldiers, all moving to the right of the screen.

[Giggles_Manically]

Every torch you see was held by a darkspawn sadly.

You cant just engage an army then run away.
Historically when someone retreated they were slaughtered.

[TEWR]

AwesomeEffect2 wrote...

Sure, Loghain did have a lot of troops. But the number of darkspawn was far greater.
Literally, there was like a bajillion of them.

yes but a successful flanking maneuver would've surprised the horde, allowing droves of Darkspawn to be cut down before they even turned around. Plus how many Grey Wardens were there? A single Grey Warden can cut down hundreds of Darkspawn. The 12 Orlesian Wardens took down droves of Darkspawn.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Should I link my Ostagar blog?

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 08 avril 2011 - 11:44 .

[TEWR]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Should I link my Ostagar blog?

Go ahead. The battle of Ostagar and if it could've been won is all opinion really. Most of the DA stuff is. We'll never really know.

[Addai]

AwesomeEffect2 wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

AwesomeEffect2 wrote...

I’d like to discuss one more thing.

Retreating at Ostagar is one of the things I don't like about Loghain. I understand why he retreated and I also think that the battle was unwinnable. But deserting like that was one of the things that sparked the civil war.

Why couldn’t he attack the darkspawn, quickly get to Cailan and then retreat?

It probably would not have worked.  The front line was deep in the valley at the fortress because they were trying to draw the horde in so that Loghain could swing around and catch them in the flank.  But the horde was much larger than anticipated.  You can see them streaming off a hilliside with seemingly no end to their line. If he had flanked, he might have just ended up swallowed by the horde and trapped in the valley, too.  Maybe he'd have broken out, but at a great loss of life, and in his mind Ferelden was about to fight a two-front war against darkspawn and Orlesians.  So he decided to cut the losses and fight another day.

Ah c&%p, I didn't notice your reply.

@Addai, you still there?

Occasionally. 

[MyKingdomCold]

if there are only two options in the game, which I think there are only two options
I always choose to kill him. he's a little too delusional and paranoid now, plus he seems to be a little misinformed about the Blight.

first, he says it isn't a Blight and it's only a large number of darkspawn.
secondly at the Landsmeet he says it is a Blight but we don't need the Grey Wardens to end it.

so which is it? a Blight or not a Blight? was he moved by peer pressure or something to acknowledge that there was a Blight? Or was he too delusional at first to admit it?

[Xavier St. Cloud]

I see sympathy for the Devil where Loghain's point of view is concerned. Both from his past experiences with the Orlesians and his considerably more pleasant demeanor in Awakening having been removed from power.

However...

I also see the massive casualties who put their trust in him at Ostagar and the precipice over which he placed the rest of Ferelden due to his political scheming, which included damage to both nobility (Eamon, Bannorn) and commoners (Lothering, elves) regardless of his dog Howe.

So, while redemption is all well and good, and Alistair's vendetta notwithstanding, I see Loghain's execution as much earned 9 times out of 10.

Modifié par Xavier St. Cloud, 10 avril 2011 - 12:12 .

[JFarr74]

Kinda sucks how he's not really in Dragon Age 2.....