764 réponses à ce sujet

[Ryzaki]

Face of Evil wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

How did Cautherine even know I was going to be there though? Howe's own men didn't even know he was dead.

Cautherine's psychic now? 

It can be justified if you tripped the alarm while you were upstairs. There's one guard in particular who won't be fooled by your disguise. He's the one having a "rendezvous" with a member of the kitchen staff in one of the private rooms.

Except you can sneak back into Anora's room without fighting all of Howe's upstairs guards. And if the alarm would've alerted anyone it would've been *them*. Not Cautherine whereever she was.

[HolyAvenger]

Face of Evil wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

How did Cautherine even know I was going to be there though? Howe's own men didn't even know he was dead.

Cautherine's psychic now? 

It can be justified if you tripped the alarm while you were upstairs. There's one guard in particular who won't be fooled by your disguise. He's the one having a "rendezvous" with a member of the kitchen staff in one of the private rooms.

And if you didn't?

[nos_astra]

Ryzaki wrote...
So you're the leader of a backwater country?

As a leader she's expected to do things she's quite frankly not going to want to do. Like either produce/name an heir. IF she can't do that. She shouldn't be a leader. Being a leader means sacrifice. It means duty. It means smiling and putting on a brave front when you want to curl in a ball and cry.

This. Which is why I will never get why people assume any kind of political marriage will end in hearts and rainbows.

Marry Anora and Alistair and they will probably lead a miserable life for the sake of the country.
Marry Alistair or Anora yourself and your relationship will never evolve freely.

[Persephone]

Ryzaki wrote...

So you're the leader of a backwater country?

As a leader she's expected to do things she's quite frankly not going to want to do. Like either produce/name an heir. IF she can't do that. She shouldn't be a leader. Being a leader means sacrifice. It means duty. It means smiling and putting on a brave front when you want to curl in a ball and cry.

And Fereldan is not england. Picking an heir on her deathbed not letting the explosive landsmeet get used to the heir? Recipe for disaster.

That's why I can't stomach making her queen. She doesn't seem to understand that. At least Alistair understands *that* much.

Again....England's greatest queen never married & held off naming a successor until she was dying. She did well enough. Actually, her NOT marrying was part of her greatness. When Elizabeth inherited the crown, England was a broke country, plagued by religious war and strife. Not to speak of the war with France. Not much better off than Ferelden. Besides, even DA2, who says that Anora isn't around still? (In her late thirties by then)

[Persephone]

klarabella wrote...

Persephone wrote...
REALLY? Have a child sleep in the stables
with the hounds is treating him just fine? Ditching him to the Chantry
to appease his annoying wife is treating him just fine? It's neglect
bordering on abuse, that's what it is.

Yes, I think in a world like Dragon Age it's perfectly fine to treat the King's (obviously) unwanted bastard like a servant. It's not a pleasant life, but it could have been worse.
Getting him away from his abusive wife and offer him a career as a member of an order of renowned warriors also doesn't strike me as too horrible.

Servants usually did not sleep with the hounds. Look at Highever. Look at Eamon's estate. Sure, he dropped him at the Chantry to protect him from Isolde....

[Ryzaki]

Persephone wrote...

Again....England's greatest queen never married & held off naming a successor until she was dying. She did well enough. Actually, her NOT marrying was part of her greatness. When Elizabeth inherited the crown, England was a broke country, plagued by religious war and strife. Not to speak of the war with France. Not much better off than Ferelden. Besides, even DA2, who says that Anora isn't around still? (In her late thirties by then)

Oh so Elizabeth got her throne by being elected by a fickle landsmeet and had her crown handed to her over a illegitmate but seriously considered male heir who gave up his right to the throne (or was executed) after a natural disaster nearly ravaged her country? And this landsmeet has the power to veto many of her decisions and she must keep them placated? 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 21 janvier 2011 - 10:28 .

[Lord_Anthonior]

Persephone wrote...

You think Cailan, who is SOOOOOOOOO bored by strategies and entirely enraptured by legends, would listen? Tactical retreat ain't treason. Read "The Stolen Throne", esp. about the Battle Of West Hill to understand his decision better.

Even if Cailan would have drop to the floor and pout and whine a general MUST stay and plan another strategy even if Cailan would have fall sleep or cry or whatever childish antics he would do, it was imperative for the general not to stand up for ceremony and make it clear of the importance of the strategies, and I read the book and it was also because of Katriel, but in this case Cailan had no spy nor beautiful woman to convince him otherwise.

The tactical retreat would have been good IF Loghain would have make sure to secure the king instead of knowing all too well and before the battle that he will abandon Cailan at the first look of the signal. Loghain did in fact made a tactical retreat once he secured Maric and head to the deep roads THAT was a retreat. Leaving the king to his own devices in a battle and not making the effort of getting to him before retreating then that is treason.  "yes Cailan, it shall be memorable to us all" .

Loghain did had the chance to persuade him if he really want to but as it was shown in Return to Ostagar, Loghian likely knew about Cailan and the Orlesian Empress and leaving Anora alone, his daughter and to an Orlesian that really angered him off giving motives for the desertion afterwards.

[Face of Evil]

Ryzaki wrote...

Except you can sneak back into Anora's room without fighting all of Howe's upstairs guards. And if the alarm would've alerted anyone it would've been *them*. Not Cautherine whereever she was.

But when you raised the alarm, someone ran off to get Ser Cauthrien, since she and her personal guard are way better fighters than most of Howe's mooks.

Of course, if you didn't raise the alarm, then Cauthrien shows up because she's psychic. I can't explain that one away. Best not to think about it too much.

On the subject of Alistair, while I recognize that he hated going to a monastery, he could have had it far, far worse. The Chantry did train him and give him an education, something that a lot of folks in these quasi-medieval settings never get.

Modifié par Face of Evil, 21 janvier 2011 - 10:34 .

[Persephone]

Ryzaki wrote...

Persephone wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

So you're the leader of a backwater country?

As a leader she's expected to do things she's quite frankly not going to want to do. Like either produce/name an heir. IF she can't do that. She shouldn't be a leader. Being a leader means sacrifice. It means duty. It means smiling and putting on a brave front when you want to curl in a ball and cry.

And Fereldan is not england. Picking an heir on her deathbed not letting the explosive landsmeet get used to the heir? Recipe for disaster.

That's why I can't stomach making her queen. She doesn't seem to understand that. At least Alistair understands *that* much.

Again....England's greatest queen never married & held off naming a successor until she was dying. She did well enough. Actually, her NOT marrying was part of her greatness. When Elizabeth inherited the crown, England was a broke country, plagued by religious war and strife. Not to speak of the war with France. Not much better off than Ferelden. Besides, even DA2, who says that Anora isn't around still? (In her late thirties by then)

Oh so Elizabeth got her throne by being elected by a fickle landsmeet and had her crown handed to her after a natural disaster nearly ravaged her country>? And this landsmeet has the power to veto many of her decisions and she must keep them placated? 

No. She got it handed on a silver tablet. :whistle:She went through hell to attain the crown. Being locked up in the Tower twice. Her own sister threatening to have her executed, Forced conversion. Riots in her name. A bloody parliament that was on her case to marry & do this or that for decades. She made placating those fools into an art.

[Ryzaki]

Persephone wrote...
No. She got it handed on a silver tablet. :whistle:She went through hell to attain the crown. Being locked up in the Tower twice. Her own sister threatening to have her executed, Forced conversion. Riots in her name. A bloody parliament that was on her case to marry & do this or that for decades. She made placating those fools into an art.

And Anora didn't. It was literaly handed to Anora on a silver tablet. It was *always* handed to Anora on a silver tablet. She didn't have to deal with any of that. The closes was Loghain's civil war in her name that ripped the country apart. She was never "forced" to marry anyone she choose not to. She had no one (other than Alistair) fighting her for the throne (and hell Alistair comes out of nowhere in the 11th hour).

And the landsmeet in WH (particulary Eamon who is not a fool) don't seem to want to jump when Anora tells them too. So much for placating fools.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 21 janvier 2011 - 10:33 .

[Persephone]

Lord_Anthonior wrote...

Persephone wrote...

You think Cailan, who is SOOOOOOOOO bored by strategies and entirely enraptured by legends, would listen? Tactical retreat ain't treason. Read "The Stolen Throne", esp. about the Battle Of West Hill to understand his decision better.

The tactical retreat would have been good IF Loghain would have make sure to secure the king instead of knowing all too well and before the battle that he will abandon Cailan at the first look of the signal. Loghain did in fact made a tactical retreat once he secured Maric and head to the deep roads THAT was a retreat. Leaving the king to his own devices in a battle and not making the effort of getting to him before retreating then that is treason.  "yes Cailan, it shall be memorable to us all" .

Loghain did had the chance to persuade him if he really want to but as it was shown in Return to Ostagar, Loghian likely knew about Cailan and the Orlesian Empress and leaving Anora alone, his daughter and to an Orlesian that really angered him off giving motives for the desertion afterwards.

They were arguing for days. Cailan insisted on fighting on the front lines, thinking a handful of Wardens made him invincible, consequences and strategies be hanged. Loghain made attempts to dissuade him. Cailan refused to listen. Should Loghain have sacrificed the ENTIRE army to save that fool?

And RTO makes it clear that Loghain did not know about Cailan and Celene.

[Persephone]

Ryzaki wrote...

Persephone wrote...
No. She got it handed on a silver tablet. :whistle:She went through hell to attain the crown. Being locked up in the Tower twice. Her own sister threatening to have her executed, Forced conversion. Riots in her name. A bloody parliament that was on her case to marry & do this or that for decades. She made placating those fools into an art.

And Anora didn't. It was literaly handed to Anora on a silver tablet. It was *always* handed to Anora on a silver tablet. She didn't have to deal with any of that. The closes was Loghain's civil war in her name that ripped the country apart. She was never "forced" to marry anyone she choose not to.

And the landsmeet in WH (particulary Eamon who is not a fool) don't seem to want to jump when Anora tells them too. So much for placating fools.

The civil war was incited by both sides. Loghain never wanted it. But we all know that he is a dreadful politician. She surely was forced into an arranged marriage to a fool who betrayed her and would have betrayed her further to become Emperor of Orlais.

And Anora is quite good at manipulating the banns, as she is an excellent ruler. Which is why her vote is so important when it comes down to it. (You CAN win without it, but having her on your side tips the scale immensely)

[Ryzaki]

Persephone wrote...

The civil war was incited by both sides. Loghain never wanted it. But we all know that he is a dreadful politician. She surely was forced into an arranged marriage to a fool who betrayed her and would have betrayed her further to become Emperor of Orlais.

And Anora is quite good at manipulating the banns, as she is an excellent ruler. Which is why her vote is so important when it comes down to it. (You CAN win without it, but having her on your side tips the scale immensely)

...Yes that's why she had him jumping when she fluttered her eyelashes and was planning to be queen at a young age. Poor Anora. So miserable.

Not so much that if Redcliffe is saved it's not turning against her.

And yes she counts as I believe 3 points. But nothing is better than winning without her. (and really you don't have to do much just find Irminic, release Vaughn, get Wulff on your side and save that dude's son).

[Persephone]

Ryzaki wrote...

Persephone wrote...

The civil war was incited by both sides. Loghain never wanted it. But we all know that he is a dreadful politician. She surely was forced into an arranged marriage to a fool who betrayed her and would have betrayed her further to become Emperor of Orlais.

And Anora is quite good at manipulating the banns, as she is an excellent ruler. Which is why her vote is so important when it comes down to it. (You CAN win without it, but having her on your side tips the scale immensely)

...Yes that's why she had him jumping when she fluttered her eyelashes and was planning to be queen at a young age. Poor Anora. So miserable.

Not so much that if Redcliffe is saved it's not turning against her.

And yes she counts as I believe 3 points. But nothing is better than winning without her. (and really you don't have to do much just find Irminic, release Vaughn, get Wulff on your side and save that dude's son).

Vaughn's vote makes no difference. At least according to the toolset. Wulff's voice and the last guy who votes tip the scale.

And as a woman.....being married to a cheater who has the IQ of a sponge.....not a lot of fun.

[Ryzaki]

Persephone wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Persephone wrote...

The civil war was incited by both sides. Loghain never wanted it. But we all know that he is a dreadful politician. She surely was forced into an arranged marriage to a fool who betrayed her and would have betrayed her further to become Emperor of Orlais.

And Anora is quite good at manipulating the banns, as she is an excellent ruler. Which is why her vote is so important when it comes down to it. (You CAN win without it, but having her on your side tips the scale immensely)

...Yes that's why she had him jumping when she fluttered her eyelashes and was planning to be queen at a young age. Poor Anora. So miserable.

Not so much that if Redcliffe is saved it's not turning against her.

And yes she counts as I believe 3 points. But nothing is better than winning without her. (and really you don't have to do much just find Irminic, release Vaughn, get Wulff on your side and save that dude's son).

Vaughn's vote makes no difference. At least according to the toolset. Wulff's voice and the last guy who votes tip the scale.

And as a woman.....being married to a cheater who has the IQ of a sponge.....not a lot of fun.

Really? Vaughn is supposed to give you plus one...that's what I saw in the toolset. *is confused*

Depends on why he cheated. You can't blame a guy for going somewhere else when his wife shows him no affection. *and no I'm not saying while he was sleeping with other women. If he did that before their relationship had a chance to bloom I could understand it. But if you look at the way she treats Alistair...I don't get the feeling she was willing to even *try* to be intimate. Cheater or no*

I wouldn't blame any man or woman who was being treated by their lover as merely a tool not to go to someone else so they could find some actual love and affection.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 21 janvier 2011 - 10:52 .

[Persephone]

Ryzaki wrote...

Persephone wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Persephone wrote...

The civil war was incited by both sides. Loghain never wanted it. But we all know that he is a dreadful politician. She surely was forced into an arranged marriage to a fool who betrayed her and would have betrayed her further to become Emperor of Orlais.

And Anora is quite good at manipulating the banns, as she is an excellent ruler. Which is why her vote is so important when it comes down to it. (You CAN win without it, but having her on your side tips the scale immensely)

...Yes that's why she had him jumping when she fluttered her eyelashes and was planning to be queen at a young age. Poor Anora. So miserable.

Not so much that if Redcliffe is saved it's not turning against her.

And yes she counts as I believe 3 points. But nothing is better than winning without her. (and really you don't have to do much just find Irminic, release Vaughn, get Wulff on your side and save that dude's son).

Vaughn's vote makes no difference. At least according to the toolset. Wulff's voice and the last guy who votes tip the scale.

And as a woman.....being married to a cheater who has the IQ of a sponge.....not a lot of fun.

Really? Vaughn is supposed to give you plus one...that's what I saw in the toolset. *is confused*

Depends on why he cheated. You can't blame a guy for going somewhere else when his wife shows him no affection. *and no I'm not saying while he was sleeping with other women. If he did that before their relationship had a chance to bloom I could understand it. But if you look at the way she treats Alistair...I don't get the feeling she was willing to even *try* to be intimate. Cheater or no*

I wouldn't blame any man or woman who was being treated by their lover as merely a tool not to go to someone else so they could find some actual love and affection.

Using the Dev Console to Jump ahead for Landsmeet testing, it clearly states that Vaughn makes no difference.

I don't believe we know enough of Anora to pinpoint her...performance in the bedroom. Many focus on that, saying she came across as frigid? OH REALLY? Based on her formal behavior? As for the excuse "I'm only getting what wifey won't give me!"....won't work on me. And how do we know ANYTHING of Anora and Alistair being or not being intimate? We never see them together.

[Ryzaki]

...Why does everyone assume love and affection = sex?



You can get sex *anywhere*. Love and affection on the other hand...geniune love and affection of the initmate kind is much rarer. Even more so for someone in Cailan's position.

[Ryzaki]

Persephone wrote...

Using the Dev Console to Jump ahead for Landsmeet testing, it clearly states that Vaughn makes no difference.

I don't believe we know enough of Anora to pinpoint her...performance in the bedroom. Many focus on that, saying she came across as frigid? OH REALLY? Based on her formal behavior? As for the excuse "I'm only getting what wifey won't give me!"....won't work on me. And how do we know ANYTHING of Anora and Alistair being or not being intimate? We never see them together.

Oh please. That is not what I said in the least bit.

Love and affection =/= sex. Sex can be gotten anywhere. Love and affection not so much.

We see him (Alistair) trying to take her hand in a comforting gesture and her hastily slapping it away. We hear her talking about him in frustration (if unhardened) or reevaulating her low opinion of him (if hardened). We hear no gentleness in her tone, no fondness (for Alistair we hear some for Cailan). We see her considering his *admittadly poor at times* since of humor exasperating. She doesn't even seem to want to find the good point to being with him other than politically.

Granted we haven't long enough to tell but it doesn't look good.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 21 janvier 2011 - 11:07 .

[Persephone]

Ryzaki wrote...

Persephone wrote...

Using the Dev Console to Jump ahead for Landsmeet testing, it clearly states that Vaughn makes no difference.

I don't believe we know enough of Anora to pinpoint her...performance in the bedroom. Many focus on that, saying she came across as frigid? OH REALLY? Based on her formal behavior? As for the excuse "I'm only getting what wifey won't give me!"....won't work on me. And how do we know ANYTHING of Anora and Alistair being or not being intimate? We never see them together.

Oh please. That is not what I said in the least bit.

Love and affection =/= sex. Sex can be gotten anywhere. Love and affection not so much.

We see him trying to take her hand in a comforting gesture and her hastily slapping it away. We hear her talking about him in frustration (if unhardened) or reevaulating her low opinion of him (if hardened). We hear no gentleness in her tone, no fondness. We see her considering his *admittadly poor at times* since of humor exasperating. She doesn't even seem to want to find the good point to being with him other than politically.

Granted we haven't long enough to tell but it doesn't look good.

Sure, love and affection....that's why he has "his womEn". Right. He is trying to hold her hand during the coronation ceremony and she doesn't want it. Given how little they know each other.... And it kinda made me laugh. I understand her frustration if he is unhardened. Re-evaluating is good. Those things take time. And I hear gentleness. Like I said, if it were like that 5 years into the marriage, I'd agree with you though.

[Ryzaki]

Persephone wrote...

Sure, love and affection....that's why he has "his womEn". Right. He is trying to hold her hand during the coronation ceremony and she doesn't want it. Given how little they know each other.... And it kinda made me laugh. I understand her frustration if he is unhardened. Re-evaluating is good. Those things take time. And I hear gentleness. Like I said, if it were like that 5 years into the marriage, I'd agree with you though.

Right because people don't go looking for love in all the wrong places and bounce around from partner to partner in search of it. That *never* happens! 

I'm not saying that's now it necessarily went but it might've.

Really? Holding someone's hand during a wedding is privacy related? Eh. I didn't laugh I cringed and decided that I souldn't marry him to her unless my PC was going to be his mistress.

I understand it to (unhardened Ali is a pain to deal with) and yes we need to see what happens in time. I just don't have my hopes up.

[Face of Evil]

Ryzaki wrote...

We see him (Alistair) trying to take her hand in a comforting gesture and her hastily slapping it away. We hear her talking about him in frustration (if unhardened) or reevaulating her low opinion of him (if hardened). We hear no gentleness in her tone, no fondness (for Alistair we hear some for Cailan). We see her considering his *admittadly poor at times* since of humor exasperating. She doesn't even seem to want to find the good point to being with him other than politically.

Granted we haven't long enough to tell but it doesn't look good.

Yeah, all I needed to see was the hand-slapping in a Youtube video to convince myself that I'd made the right decision by not marrying Alistair to Anora.

I don't know if Alistair can find a better candidate for queen, but he could hardly find a worse one.

[Ryzaki]

@Persphone: Sorry if I'm sort of on your a** about the whole affection thing. Its just personally I've seen quite a few bad relationships in my life (thankfully I wasn't personally involved in them but...) it leaves an impression and nothing seems simple anymore.

[Persephone]

Ryzaki wrote...

Persephone wrote...

Sure, love and affection....that's why he has "his womEn". Right. He is trying to hold her hand during the coronation ceremony and she doesn't want it. Given how little they know each other.... And it kinda made me laugh. I understand her frustration if he is unhardened. Re-evaluating is good. Those things take time. And I hear gentleness. Like I said, if it were like that 5 years into the marriage, I'd agree with you though.

Right because people don't go looking for love in all the wrong places and bounce around from partner to partner in search of it. That *never* happens! 

I'm not saying that's now it necessarily went but it might've.

Really? Holding someone's hand during a wedding is privacy related? Eh. I didn't laugh I cringed and decided that I souldn't marry him to her unless my PC was going to be his mistress.

I understand it to (unhardened Ali is a pain to deal with) and yes we need to see what happens in time. I just don't have my hopes up.

Bounce from partner to partner? When you're married to the woman you supposedly love? HELL NO.

And it was their coronation, not their wedding.

I do have my hopes up, moreso than with her and Cailan. They clearly work well together.

[Persephone]

Ryzaki wrote...

@Persphone: Sorry if I'm sort of on your a** about the whole affection thing. Its just personally I've seen quite a few bad relationships in my life (thankfully I wasn't personally involved in them but...) it leaves an impression and nothing seems simple anymore.

That's alright.

I've been in some relationship horrors. I've also seen my father cheat on my mother. Cheaters can expect little understanding from me. Part of the reason why I am never going to marry is that I want a 100% faithful hubby and want to be a 100% faithful wife. And that just isn't possible, it seems.

Modifié par Persephone, 21 janvier 2011 - 11:18 .

[Ryzaki]

Persephone wrote...


Bounce from partner to partner? When you're married to the woman you supposedly love? HELL NO.

And it was their coronation, not their wedding.

I do have my hopes up, moreso than with her and Cailan. They clearly work well together.

Right because that also never happens.

*sighs* I'm not getting into why infidility happens because it happens for a multitude of reasons, many of which I couldn't begin to explain.

Weren't they married before that? The two were engaged at that point.

Not to me. Good business partners do not a loving marriage make.