824 réponses à ce sujet

[ankuu]

duckphone07 wrote...

David Gaider wrote...

And, incidentally, once again that is only part of the reasoning. We wanted to change the way elves look (and have), yet didn't want them being slender to also make them look child-like. You can make assumptions if you like, but it's not very complicated-- and considering that I never thought of elves as in "they must all be shorter than humans" (as they were in D&D)  I don't really think it's a big deal. As always, YMMV.

This makes sense.  Some reaction of Merrils first appearence in the Dev Diary was how she looked too child-like.  This was most likely due to her looking short and slim in that shot.  They wanted to keep the slimness, so they decided to axe the shortness, that makes sense.  Not that there is anything wrong with a short and slimmed adult. 

This.

[Count Viceroy]

Ryzaki wrote...

Ah true. Much better than you being ironic and me thinking you were perfectly serious.

Sadly, it doesn't work as well in real life. That is why I wear a cup at all times, the arch enemy of the knee.

[Ryzaki]

Count Viceroy wrote...
Sadly, it doesn't work as well in real life. That is why I wear a cup at all times, the arch enemy of the knee.

LOL

Anyways I see why in Merril's case she was made taller. She did really look like a little kid.

[silentassassin264]

David Gaider wrote...

And I'll leave it at that. This is what I get for off-handedly mentioning things. Chris is gonna come glare at me, I just know it.

So what?  You can take him.  You are by far more evil.  I bet your evil glare would literally petrify him.

[errant_knight]

I think my negative opinion of the change is likely influenced by that fact that I'm might short in RL. I LIKED being taller than half the population, damn it!

[upsettingshorts]

Addai67 wrote...

Wynne wrote...
 I understand what you're saying, but let me ask you this--would you still feel the same if we were talking about the HNM and a female version of Zevran?

I did feel the same awkwardness with my HNM and Iona.  That felt very icky.

*scratches head*

I genuinely don't get this.  Perhaps it's because my dad was 6'3" and over 200 lbs and my mom is 5'2" and just over 100 lbs, and they had a perfectly normal relationship.  Except for having me, you can blame them for that I suppose.

[Poaches]

It lacks flavor when elves end up just another "better looking humans with pointy ears" race. And there's a certain backwar-sy feel to require females to be shorter than males. But it appeals to the adolescent male demographic none the less.



Some how though, I doubt the lessen height gap would make anything near a spectacular improvement on animations.

[Roxy Raconteur]

I'm okay with the elves being a little taller. That said I am probably biased from growing up on Tolkiens work.



In Dragon Age I found Zevrans shortness endearing, because well..its Zevran..But I have to wonder will shortness be endearing on a more stoic character like Fenris? For some people probably, for most likely not. Then again we haven't seen these characters in action yet so perhaps it is a bit early to be jumping to all sorts of conclusions.

[Addai]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

Wynne wrote...
 I understand what you're saying, but let me ask you this--would you still feel the same if we were talking about the HNM and a female version of Zevran?

I did feel the same awkwardness with my HNM and Iona.  That felt very icky.

*scratches head*

I genuinely don't get this.  Perhaps it's because my dad was 6'3" and over 200 lbs and my mom is 5'2" and just over 100 lbs, and they had a perfectly normal relationship.  Except for having me, you can blame them for that I suppose.

That's because the ick is not in the height difference.  I've already said this a couple times.  It's in the class difference, but with Zevran-HNF the fact that she was taller was just a reminder to me of that and one more reason why the pairing just didn't feel right.  It was more of a parallel thing.

[Ryzaki]

Oh so Isabela's going to be shorter than Fenris then...



And now I have images of FenrisxIsabela in my head...fabulous.

[Addai]

Poaches wrote...

It lacks flavor when elves end up just another "better looking humans with pointy ears" race. And there's a certain backwar-sy feel to require females to be shorter than males. But it appeals to the adolescent male demographic none the less.

Ugh, stop it.  Numerous people have said they like the dynamic of a female being slightly shorter than her partner.  I doubt they're all adolescent males.  I'm certainly not. 

For the record, my husband and I are the same height.  Height is not a big deal, it doesn't mean you can't have an inclination.

[Count Viceroy]

Poaches wrote...

It lacks flavor when elves end up just another "better looking humans with pointy ears" race. And there's a certain backwar-sy feel to require females to be shorter than males. But it appeals to the adolescent male demographic none the less.
.

What? that's just bs. <_<

[ankuu]

Poaches wrote...

It lacks flavor when elves end up just another "better looking humans with pointy ears" race. And there's a certain backwar-sy feel to require females to be shorter than males. But it appeals to the adolescent male demographic none the less.

Some how though, I doubt the lessen height gap would make anything near a spectacular improvement on animations.

Elves are not just another "better looking humans with pointy ears" race. In Thedas at least, they have a rich history and i would like to see more of it. The fact that they were so intelligent, advanced, and yet they got destroyed by humans is interesting.

Me and my bf are the same height, and he gets picked on whenever i wear heels. If you compare him to a average man he is kinda short while i am taller than the average woman. I don't find it a problem cause i love him but he feels awkward at times (in pictures for example). He is not an adolescent btw.

Modifié par ankuu, 20 janvier 2011 - 05:56 .

[Ryzaki]

Count Viceroy wrote...

Poaches wrote...

It lacks flavor when elves end up just another "better looking humans with pointy ears" race. And there's a certain backwar-sy feel to require females to be shorter than males. But it appeals to the adolescent male demographic none the less.
.

What? that's just bs. <_<

Hell I 'm against elves being shorter and I disagree with the bolded.

It doesn't appeal to just one group.

But it's annoying that my female can't be taller than her man nonetheless.

[Count Viceroy]

Yeah, I didn't think I needed to bold that bit for emphasis. It kind of stood out to me.



Obvious solution would be a very very slight height slider in the CC. They could even add a warning that it might stretch armor every so slightly as a disclaimer.

[Rinji the Bearded]

I always disliked the shortness of elves in DAO. They were much too child-like and Keebler-y. I'm one of those Tolkien elf fans, so seeing a height increase is a plus in my book.



Does height really matter when it comes to loving someone? Come on...

[Poaches]

Kind of pointless to state it doesn't just appeal to one demographic, it still stands to reason its appealing to a certain specific demographic. Just because big boobs appeal to adolescent males doesn't mean it can't appeal to lesbians, its indignation about nothing at all.

The elves' "rich history" doesn't have anything to do with their physical attributes however. That's a cultural thing.

Point stands.

Modifié par Poaches, 20 janvier 2011 - 06:01 .

[tmp7704]

David Gaider wrote...

For starters, I never said that making elves the same height (or roughly-- they are still shorter) as humans makes interaction possible. It makes it easier, on a systemic scale when you're taking into account things like camera angle (where the head needs to be centered) and animations (when "matching up" where interacting models touch).

This is fair enough, but to be equally fair i was addressing comment which sprang from your initial remark; and it was to question whether this change makes things so much easier that it'd result in significant increase in amount of presented conversations, interactive cutscenes etc. (this isn't to question if DA2 is going to have more animations and such in general, but i'd be more willing to chalk up that to considerable increase of your animation staff, than this particular change in character dimensions)

You reduce the number of variables involved and therefore questions of interacting stop having "but what if it's an elf? what if it's a dwarf?" automatically tacked on.

However as long as there's some actual variables involved this question never really goes away, does it? This only stops being an issue when the shapes become virtually identical, and they aren't. And what you do isn't as much reduction of variables as swapping one for another.

The other reason, an attempt to avoid too child-like appearance, i can see that given the knee-jerk reactions in Merrill thread and whatnot. It's unfortunate but, well.

and considering that I never thought of elves as in "they must all be shorter than humans" (as they were in D&D)  I don't really think it's a big deal.

So, does that mean the DA elves are on average human-like when it comes to height, as far as "lorelol" is concerned? Honestly, as the lead writer you must have some mental image what they're like in your own settings?

[CuzImShort]

*lol sorry, I've just always wanted to use this gif for something.



I don't see the big issue here. I sense somewhere in the world, the biggest mountain was made out of a tiny mole hill just now. I've actually never thought twice about their height until someone brought it up. I accepted it as a thing that varies between each fantasy lore. (I'm relatively new to, considering I've only just now watch LoTR) Hell, I'm just thankful that the team is now putting effort in distinguishing between the races beyond height and weirdo arm length. *looks at my Brosca and Aeducan* Sorry, but I don't want to go back to using a human body model, adding point ears, and ever so slightly making them smaller. 

Someone mentioned that their short heights symbolizing them as oppressed beings. While I agree to some extent, why does the oppressed have to be always be small in comparison? I get it, smaller usually means weaker. But, with the adjustments to elven height, I find that this makes their oppression even more the sadder... and a touch ironic: Tall, graceful, beautiful, all knowing immortal elves, now nothing more than slaves, beggers, second-class servants, or nomads by a smaller race. Can you taste the angst? I can and it taste yummy!  lol Usually I groan miserably at the sight of angst, but I love the DA elves and this makes me love them(or sympathize with them) even more.

Edit: Oh and yes, I'm perfectly happy with Fen being taller than Fem!Hawke. Call me petty if you wish. I like my men tall. I'm 4'11'' and if I'm looking down, it's should only because I'm tying my shoes or picking up something I've dropped on the floor. *Short person thumbs up*(That is not to say I don't like Varric, I have a feeling I'm gonna like him very much after the first five minutes of meeting him.)

Modifié par CuzImShort, 20 janvier 2011 - 06:13 .

[Addai]

RinjiRenee wrote...

I always disliked the shortness of elves in DAO. They were much too child-like and Keebler-y. I'm one of those Tolkien elf fans, so seeing a height increase is a plus in my book.

Oh, the Tolkien people are coming out.  By Elbereth, I didn't think there were any around. 

[_Aine_]

I didn't really care beyond knee-jerk reaction of those "first impression" observations. Once my warden(s) go to know Zevran, she either loathed or lusted for him, regardless of height. lol For me, there *is* a momentary preference but in the end, who the character was mattered far more than if I looked them in the navel or they rested their head on my chest. *shrugs* ymmv of course.

I'm looking forward to seeing the Elves as a whole to see how they blend ( or not ) in the new world... I hope, that whatever the differences, they come off as a different race. I have some issues to discuss with them about their footwear, as a nice thin-skin moccasin would protect their feet while still letting them have their connection to the earth or whatnot, but that is a discussion for another time...

Modifié par shantisands, 20 janvier 2011 - 06:08 .

[Poaches]

Speaking of Tolkien, should it be expected now that elves has been retconned, dark skinned elves no longer exist?

Modifié par Poaches, 20 janvier 2011 - 06:13 .

[tmp7704]

CuzImShort wrote...

Someone mentioned that their short heights symbolizing them as oppressed beings. While I agree to some extent, why does the oppressed have to be always be small in comparison?

Becoming twice as thin doesn't exactly convey the image of being strong(er), either. If you buck at the concept of oppressed race having weaker appearance than the oppressor, the new version should feel grating just as much.

Modifié par tmp7704, 20 janvier 2011 - 06:15 .

[Ryzaki]

Poaches wrote...

Speaking of Tolkien, should it be expected now that elves has been retconned, dark skinned elves no longer exist?

You have no idea how hard I just cringed at that.

[CuzImShort]

tmp7704 wrote...

CuzImShort wrote...

Someone mentioned that their short heights symbolizing them as oppressed beings. While I agree to some extent, why does the oppressed have to be always be small in comparison?

Becoming twice as thin doesn't exactly convey the image of being strong(er), either. If you buck at the concept of oppressed race having weaker appearance than the oppressor, the new version should feel grating just as much.

Darrrrnit, I have to go to class. 
Twice as thin is an exaggeration. All I've heard when describing the elves by a Dev is 'slender'. Slender doesn't mean weaker either... it just means I want your metabolism. LOL

*off to class*