824 réponses à ce sujet

[Mad-Max90]

Really...now it really looks bad if your picking at height changes for a game that has gotten a drastic overhaul in it's art style, they want the game to look like dragon age not just another run of the mill rpg.

[pizoxuat]

Rake21 wrote...

This was honestly something I never paid attention to in the game, but is it possible that Zev was just short for an elf and that's why the female Warden was taller than him. Or were they taller than all male elves.

In DAO, all human women were taller than all elven men.

[Rake21]

pizoxuat wrote...

Rake21 wrote...

This was honestly something I never paid attention to in the game, but is it possible that Zev was just short for an elf and that's why the female Warden was taller than him. Or were they taller than all male elves.

In DAO, all human women were taller than all elven men.

Ok, cool.

Carry on then.

[Maria Caliban]

Addai67 wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...
Elves aren't taller than humans. Male elves are taller than female humans. One is a change that wouldn't bother me. One is a change that does.

If BioWare didn't feel the need to make this change an issue of gender, I wouldn't care, but they did, so I do.

How do you know this? 

Because David said as much. I started this thread looking for a confirmation, hence the question mark.

I was perfectly willing for a dev to swoop in and say "Nope, that's not the case." I'd still be happy if Mike popped in and went "Female humans are taller than elven males. Stop jumping to conclusions, Maria!"

Instead I've gotten "Elves are shorter than Male Hawke." Okay then.

If you're saying you wanted a tall female elf, well I can't disagree with that.  I'd rather not have the Dalish elf companion be something you can put in your pocket.

I don't want a tall female elf. I won't mind one, but this thread isn't about my desire for one.

[tmp7704]

pizoxuat wrote...

In DAO, all human women were taller than all elven men.

Yup; the way game engine is set up, characters of given combination of race/gender have all the same height, to allow both the head morphs and the haircuts/helmets to line up properly.

[Sable Rhapsody]

Maria Caliban wrote...

Sable Rhapsody wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...
Elves aren't taller than humans. Male elves are taller than female humans. One is a change that wouldn't bother me. One is a change that does.

If BioWare didn't feel the need to make this change an issue of gender, I wouldn't care, but they did, so I do.

I don't think this is the case.

Good to know I'm so horribly out of touch with my thoughts that random people on the internet can predict my reactions better than I do.

Yes, if male and female elves were suddenly taller than male and female humans, it wouldn't bother me. Other people might be bothered, but not me.

Wow...that is...totally not what I meant   And certainly not what I said in the rest of the post.  Last time I checked, saying I disagree with you does not mean saying I think you're out of touch or anything.  I'm sorry you took it that way or if I offended you, though.

All I meant was that it's quite likely that ALL elves, male and female, are now of comparable height to humans.   Elven males are taller than human women, but human males are also taller than human women.  It is also perfectly possible for elves to be just slightly shorter than humans on average.  That means the height would go as follows:

Human male --> elven male --> human female --> elven female.

Just because one dev said elven males are taller than human females doesn't mean it was based on gender.  I'm saying there are other, non-gender-dependent, perfectly reasonable explanations.

[Maria Caliban]

Mad-Max90 wrote...

Really...now it really looks bad if your picking at height changes for a game that has gotten a drastic overhaul in it's art style, they want the game to look like dragon age not just another run of the mill rpg.

How is it different from a 'run of the mill' RPG? In DnD, male elves are shorter than male humans but taller than female humans.

[Victia]

I for one really like what I have seen of the changes to design so far including the elves.



I personally think that they look more like a seperate species now, with the ears being bigger and stick out more, they are taller, more slender and paler than humans and I think they look really cool!



But I guess thats the problem with designing/ redesigning anything - you cant please all the people all the time

[mellifera]

I don't see how their height makes them look any more or less a separate species. No matter what their height, their overhauled features serve as fairly blatant visual cues. So why change it?

Modifié par yukidama, 20 janvier 2011 - 11:24 .

[Ryzaki]

yukidama wrote...

I don't see how their height makes them look any more or less a separate species. No matter what their height, their overhauled features serve as fairly blatant visual cues. So why change it?

Because ra fobid the female lead be taller than the male LI.


Sorry. Ignore me. <_<

[mellifera]

Lol, I pretty much agree with you, Ryzaki.



Apparently it's okay when you're the short one or the "unconventional" one and others accept it. Other way around? Eww barf.

[Addai]

Maria Caliban wrote...
Because David said as much. I started this thread looking for a confirmation, hence the question mark.

I was perfectly willing for a dev to swoop in and say "Nope, that's not the case." I'd still be happy if Mike popped in and went "Female humans are taller than elven males. Stop jumping to conclusions, Maria!"

Why is that important??  If all elves have been made taller, then it stands to reason that elf males would end up a little taller than the HF.  There already wasn't that much difference between them in Origins.  So why is it important that all elves were made taller but the men less so, so that... I dunno why, so that femHawke would still have an LI that's shorter than her, I guess?

Modifié par Addai67, 20 janvier 2011 - 11:28 .

[Eclipse_9990]

Ryzaki wrote...

yukidama wrote...

I don't see how their height makes them look any more or less a separate species. No matter what their height, their overhauled features serve as fairly blatant visual cues. So why change it?

Because ra fobid the female lead be taller than the male LI.


Sorry. Ignore me. <_<

What are you talking about? You had that in Origins, and you may have this in DA2.
Whats so important about being able to look down at your LI? Besides Fenris might be the same height as Fem Hawke it was never specifically stated that he was taller.. 

Jeez is this what its all about? 

[Addai]

Eclipse_9990 wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

yukidama wrote...

I don't see how their height makes them look any more or less a separate species. No matter what their height, their overhauled features serve as fairly blatant visual cues. So why change it?

Because ra fobid the female lead be taller than the male LI.


Sorry. Ignore me. <_<

What are you talking about? You had that in Origins, and you may have this in DA2.
Whats so important about being able to look down at your LI? Besides Fenris might be the same height as Fem Hawke it was never specifically stated that he was taller.. 

Jeez is this what its all about? 

Keep reading.  Zevran doesn't count.

[Ryzaki]

Eclipse_9990 wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

yukidama wrote...

I don't see how their height makes them look any more or less a separate species. No matter what their height, their overhauled features serve as fairly blatant visual cues. So why change it?

Because ra fobid the female lead be taller than the male LI.


Sorry. Ignore me. <_<

What are you talking about? You had that in Origins, and you may have this in DA2.
Whats so important about being able to look down at your LI? Besides Fenris might be the same height as Fem Hawke it was never specifically stated that he was taller.. 

Jeez is this what its all about? 

I already explained this. I have no desire to get into it again.

And turn to it around "What' so important about the male elf being able to look down at femHawke?" 

And if you're going to comment at least know what you're commenting on. Fenris is taller than FemHawke shorter than Male Hawke.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 20 janvier 2011 - 11:30 .

[Maria Caliban]

Sable Rhapsody wrote...

That means the height would go as follows:

Human male --> elven male --> human female --> elven female.

Just because one dev said elven males are taller than human females doesn't mean it was based on gender.  I'm saying there are other, non-gender-dependent, perfectly reasonable explanations.

Yes, that's the order it goes in. That's what I'm complaining about.

How can you show me a grouping where all men are taller than all woman and then say it has nothing to do with gender?

Actually the grouping is this:

Qunari male -> human male -> elven male -> human female -> elven female -> dwarven male -> dwarven female

The only male the human female is taller than is the dwarven one, and David says in this thread that's only because people expect dwarves to be short. Without that expectation, we'd probably also male dwarves as tall as female humans.

filaminstrel wrote...

Or are you saying that even if they didn't intend it to be sexist, the result perpetuates sexism nonetheless?

The vast majority of sexism is unintentional.

Elven dudes are taller than human women because 'it just looked right.' Having them be shorter 'just seemed off' somehow. If they were suddenly taller than human males then it would be a retcon, but as they're only taller than human females they've just 'grown a little.'

Nevermind that they specifically said they were interested in exploring different types of beauty. Dudes are taller than gals because it just looks better that way.

Modifié par Maria Caliban, 20 janvier 2011 - 11:30 .

[Mad-Max90]

I just think if your going to ****, **** about something that matters

[Eclipse_9990]

Addai67 wrote...

Eclipse_9990 wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

yukidama wrote...

I don't see how their height makes them look any more or less a separate species. No matter what their height, their overhauled features serve as fairly blatant visual cues. So why change it?

Because ra fobid the female lead be taller than the male LI.


Sorry. Ignore me. <_<

What are you talking about? You had that in Origins, and you may have this in DA2.
Whats so important about being able to look down at your LI? Besides Fenris might be the same height as Fem Hawke it was never specifically stated that he was taller.. 

Jeez is this what its all about? 

Keep reading.  Zevran doesn't count.

How does that not count? Is it like "oh yeah when I played Origins my Human female could look down on Zevran whenever they f***ed. But in LORE she was actually the same height or shorter than him.. "

Lol what? 

[wulfsturm]

yukidama wrote...

Lol, I pretty much agree with you, Ryzaki.

Apparently it's okay when you're the short one or the "unconventional" one and others accept it. Other way around? Eww barf.

That's an odd statement. Females of any species being smaller then their male counterparts is hardly "unconventional." It's called nature, genitics, chemistry... what have you. Obviously this game is not real life, but it's based on real life - and not the fantasy of many posters in here want it to be.

[Ryzaki]

...If you want to ask me something ask me not someone who twists my words around to suit their argument.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 20 janvier 2011 - 11:33 .

[Rake21]

Ryzaki wrote...


And turn to it around "What' so important about the male elf being able to look down at femHawke?" 

\\

It's not.  I honestly don't pay attention to that stuff.  If that's the reason the dev's made the height change, then that's a stupid reason.

Modifié par Rake21, 20 janvier 2011 - 11:33 .

[Sable Rhapsody]

Maria Caliban wrote...

Sable Rhapsody wrote...

That means the height would go as follows:

Human male --> elven male --> human female --> elven female.

Just because one dev said elven males are taller than human females doesn't mean it was based on gender.  I'm saying there are other, non-gender-dependent, perfectly reasonable explanations.

Yes, that's the order it goes in. That's what I'm complaining about.

How can you show me a grouping where all men are taller than all woman and then say it has nothing to do with gender?
 

Ah, ok, my mistake.  Apparently I didn't express myself precisely.

This does have to do with gender.  But it doesn't have to do with sexism.  It has to do with gender because generally speaking, in real life, men are taller than women.  And that's all there is to it.  We could even break out the race analogy in real life if you like, using whites and Hispanics. 

White men --> Hispanic men --> white women --> Hispanic women.  It's based on gender.  It happens IRL.  And...no one COMPLAINS about it.  It's not the result of any sexism on the part of anyone, unconscious or otherwise.  That's just how the chips fall realistically. 

[pizoxuat]

wulfsturm wrote...
That's an odd statement. Females of any species being smaller then their male counterparts is hardly "unconventional." It's called nature, genitics, chemistry... what have you. Obviously this game is not real life, but it's based on real life - and not the fantasy of many posters in here want it to be.

Any species?  Any species.  Oh lawd.  That's some bad biology, honey.