824 réponses à ce sujet

[tmp7704]

wulfsturm wrote...

You do realise that there are female humans out there that are taller then male humans, that doesn't change their "sexual differentation." It just makes them...taller.

As far as i can tell this thread is dealing with species-wide images not individuals. Tall male elves, short human females, all that jazz. That's why you have people claiming that "males should be taller than females because that's how it's in real life and so it helps immersion".

[wulfsturm]

Ryzaki wrote...

Look at thiiisss.

Someone lying about what yukidama actually said.

Heavy risk....

No, they said that it gave them the impression that it was sexism.

As far as i can tell this thread is dealing with species-wide images not
individuals. Tall male elves, short human females, all that jazz.
That's why you have people claiming that "males should be taller than
females because that's how it's in real life and so it helps immersion".

Ok, but what does this have to do with me or my quote?

Modifié par wulfsturm, 21 janvier 2011 - 01:07 .

[AlexXIV]

SirGladiator wrote...

It seems like a strange concept, elves taller than humans. Certainly this wasn't the case in DAO, and it doesn't seem like Merrill is very tall at all, so Im assuming that human females are still taller than elf females. Why they made elf males super-tall, as apparently they did from what Ive read here, is rather a mystery. I suppose its for whoever wants to romance the elf guy, but it would've probably been better to just say he was unusually tall instead of making all the elf males taller than human females, that seems rather strange and inappropriate.

If they made Fenris exceptionally tall for an elf they need to make animations for normal elves and for Fenris. Which is more effort. They probably prefer to only make one elven male animation for both, Fenris and all other male elves.

[Gavinthelocust]

What twisted abomination has this thread become? I swear you people relay the same information more times than a Metal Gear game.

[Ryzaki]

wulfsturm wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Look at thiiisss.

Someone lying about what yukidama actually said.

Heavy risk....

No, they said that it gave them the impression that it was sexism.

Someone giving the impression of being something doesn't equal to you calling them that. She said the change gave the impression of being somewhat influenced by sexism. Not that it was nor that BW itself was sexist.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 21 janvier 2011 - 01:09 .

[AlexXIV]

Ryzaki wrote...

wulfsturm wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Look at thiiisss.

Someone lying about what yukidama actually said.

Heavy risk....

No, they said that it gave them the impression that it was sexism.

Someone giving the impression of being something doesn't equal to you calling them that.

Depends if it is their intention to give the impression. But unless we know their intention you are right.

[Eclipse_9990]

Gavinthelocust wrote...

What twisted abomination has this thread become? I swear you people relay the same information more times than a Metal Gear game.

Lol totally.. *goes off to play some Metal Gear* 

[wulfsturm]

Ryzaki wrote...

Someone giving the impression of being something doesn't equal to you calling them that. She said the change gave the impression of being somewhat influenced by sexism. Not that it was nor that BW itself was sexist.

No, it just implies that they do.

[tmp7704]

Gorthaur X wrote...

Well, this is a board where any female character with, for example, visible biceps or a slightly larger-than-average jaw is  A MAN, BABY.

(courtesy of Fishmas1.  i find Aveline adorable but these expressions are too priceless not to post them)

[drahelvete]

So they finally decided to de-Keeblerize the elves? Excellent.

[Ryzaki]

wulfsturm wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Someone giving the impression of being something doesn't equal to you calling them that. She said the change gave the impression of being somewhat influenced by sexism. Not that it was nor that BW itself was sexist.

No, it just implies that they do.

No it doesn't imply that she thinks BW is sexist. It implys that she thinks the decision to change the genders heights may be.

Think of it like choosing the one black kid because you're playing basketball. We don't know why the person choose them. Maybe the kid's good at basketball, maybe they think the kid would be good. But to some it might appear to be because they choose him because of race. That doesn't mean they're going to accuse someone of being racist.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 21 janvier 2011 - 01:13 .

[Gavinthelocust]

drahelvete wrote...

So they finally decided to de-Keeblerize the elves? Excellent.

[KBomb]

Ryzaki wrote...

Of course. I wouldn't have an issue with that oddly as long as female elves and human females were the same height.

I know it would lead to the same thing but frankly it irritates me a hell of a lot less than having the male elf stay conviently smaller than the human male.

KBomb wrote...

 It makes sense to me. On average, men are taller than women. Elven men on average would probably be taller than their counterparts, which would probably equal the height of a female human, but not exactly the height of a male human. *shrugs*

[wulfsturm]

Ryzaki wrote...

No it doesn't imply that she thinks BW is sexist. It implys that she thinks the decision to change the genders heights may be.

Yes... and the decision to change the genders heights was made by BioWare.

[Malanek]

yukidama wrote...
 But since we can only now be human, apparently female human/shorter male is groce or something.

Not saying that anyone in BioWare actually believes this (well, some posts about dwarves by Gaider a while back did imply this but whatever) but that it's definitely the impression a change like this puts forth.

Now, of course if by some miracle Varric happens to be an LI I will buy a hat and eat it.

Ryzaki wrote...
Look at thiiisss.

Someone lying about what yukidama actually said.

Heavy risk....

"Not saying the kettle is black or anything, but the kettle is very black."

Saying you are not saying something, does not mean you are not saying it.

[Pzykozis]

tmp7704 wrote...

wulfsturm wrote...

Sigh, he said in an abstract way. If you put horns on a human, its still a human but with horns.

And if you make female humans taller than the male you still have humans but with different sexual differentiation. How is it any different?

Horns don't have any prior association, a person as an audience to something understands things fundamentally it's why you can show someone a piece of art and they can say; 'well... the lightings off a little' it's something that is instinctive, you have to appeal to instincts for immersion if a gun doesn't look like a gun because it's alien then the player doesn't instantly recognise it as a gun, nor do they understand how it works etc. etc. Wizard did it.

You put horns on a human and the player looks at it and says ok so it's a humanoid species similar to a human no big deal you have some sort of lore about them 'blah blah they're horned they're not like us blah blah', on the otherhand you make a race where the females are larger than the males you have to explain why this is the case, because in a general sense it is not normal.

Horns and height are two very very different things, and I'm not getting my point across great since it is 1am over here but meh.

[Ryzaki]

KBomb wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Of course. I wouldn't have an issue with that oddly as long as female elves and human females were the same height.

I know it would lead to the same thing but frankly it irritates me a hell of a lot less than having the male elf stay conviently smaller than the human male.

KBomb wrote...

 It makes sense to me. On average, men are taller than women. Elven men on average would probably be taller than their counterparts, which would probably equal the height of a female human, but not exactly the height of a male human. *shrugs*

But why would elven men be taller than human female? They weren't before. Why would this change come about? Why not the same height as human males? 

Like I said. It bothers me because t seems too convienent. Maybe I spent too much time listenting to people complain about elven height in the Fenris thread.

Malanek999 wrote...

yukidama wrote...
 But since we can only now be human, apparently female human/shorter male is groce or something.

Not saying that anyone in BioWare actually believes this (well, some posts about dwarves by Gaider a while back did imply this but whatever) but that it's definitely the impression a change like this puts forth.

Now, of course if by some miracle Varric happens to be an LI I will buy a hat and eat it.

Ryzaki wrote...
Look at thiiisss.

Someone lying about what yukidama actually said.

Heavy risk....

"Not saying the kettle is black or anything, but the kettle is very black."

Saying you are not saying something, does not mean you are not saying it.

I already answered this.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 21 janvier 2011 - 01:14 .

[Ryzaki]

wulfsturm wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

No it doesn't imply that she thinks BW is sexist. It implys that she thinks the decision to change the genders heights may be.

Yes... and the decision to change the genders heights was made by BioWare.

Yes and we all know that making a decision that may be seen as sexist makes you a sexist.

[wulfsturm]

Ryzaki wrote...

Yes and we all know that making a decision that may be seen as sexist makes you a sexist.

Yes, that was what the quote was implying.

[mellifera]

Urgh.

The people making the decision aren't sexist. They're not racist. They're not heightist or speciesist or whateverist. A choice was made that makes a very poor impression to me and others. This SINGLE CHANGE is not representative of who they are as people and what their beliefs are or the beliefs of their company as a whole. 

That is all.

Modifié par yukidama, 21 janvier 2011 - 01:19 .

[Ryzaki]

wulfsturm wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Yes and we all know that making a decision that may be seen as sexist makes you a sexist.

Yes, that was what the quote was implying.

She didn't call BW sexist.

Hell she didn't even call the decision sexist! She said could infer sexism.

[AlexXIV]

Honestly guys, yuki said that their decision is giving the impression. Not that it was Bioware's intention. But I guess her post about the impression Bioware's decission made could give the impression she meant that ...

[wulfsturm]

yukidama wrote...

Urgh.

The people making the decision aren't sexist. They're not racist. They're not heightist or speciesist or whateverist. A choice was made that makes a very poor impression to me and others. This is not representative of who they are as people and what their beliefs are or the beliefs of their company as a whole.

That is all.

I wasn't aware you could make sexist / heightist choices without being sexist or heightist, because doesn't the former make you the later?