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[Shepard Lives]

Ryzaki wrote...

...They can be fierce warriors and still be shorter than the average human though.

Qunari, human, even dwarf, all obvious threats. *inhale* Never see me coming.

[Ryzaki]

Shepard Lives wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

...They can be fierce warriors and still be shorter than the average human though.

Qunari, human, even dwarf, all obvious threats. *inhale* Never see me coming.

Thanks for that I nearly leaked soda out of my nose.

[Leonia]

A human noble and Zevran is little different than Fiona and Maric really..

Oh well played, Shepard!

Modifié par leonia42, 20 janvier 2011 - 04:29 .

[Ryzaki]

Addai67 wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...
I didn't quote you. *well I edited so the singling out wasn't so strong.

Never said you were supposed to be socially conscious.

And how exactly is that logic?  Saying a dude shorter than a chick is weird isn't logic. Any more than saying a dwarf romance is ick is logic.

Personal preference is one thing but logic? No.

You're fine to have your preferences. I just disliked your choice of words to be honest. Harassment is quite strong for a simple height difference. 

The breakdown in logic is that you were claiming I said the height difference consituted sexual harrassment.  I never said that.  I said it underscored what I already felt was a note of sexual harrassment in a human noble sleeping with an elf whose life is literally in her hands.

Sorry you took such offense at my choice of words.  Hope that clears it up.

Ah my bad then. But that would be the same thing for anyone who slept with Zevran even those female elves who were shorter than him. Their height doesn't make it anymore or anyless sexual harassment.

[Addai]

Ryzaki wrote...

...They can be fierce warriors and still be shorter than the average human though.

Yes, please try to follow the discussion if you're going to rip into things.  Saibh is saying that the shortness is a visual cue of oppression.  But oppression is not all there is to elven history.

[Count Viceroy]

Shepard Lives wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

...They can be fierce warriors and still be shorter than the average human though.

Qunari, human, even dwarf, all obvious threats. *inhale* Never see me coming.

Win.

[Ryzaki]

Addai67 wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

...They can be fierce warriors and still be shorter than the average human though.

Yes, please try to follow the discussion if you're going to rip into things.  Saibh is saying that the shortness is a visual cue of oppression.  But oppression is not all there is to elven history.

I wasn't "ripping" into anything merely making a statement.

And while oppression isn't all there is to history being fierce warriors doesn't stop someone else from being better. Nor as I said does it show any indication of height.

At the point we're in the elves beaten and downtrodden showing them as proud fierce warrior race is rather contrary to what they are at this point in time. Visual clues such as height, squalor and the like show that they as a race have been completely curbstomped.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 20 janvier 2011 - 04:36 .

[tmp7704]

Addai67 wrote...

But oppression is not all there is to elven history.

It is large part of it, though. DA2 even happens to be set in the city that's been the center of elven slave trade for centuries, for this matter. And there's hints the oppression plays a part in the overall plot.

[Elsariel]

I'm going to go against the norm here and say that I'm happy to know male elves are taller than the women. Yes, I know, I've internalized sexism and height shouldn't matter and blah blah blah... but I'm not going to lie - I like my men taller than me. *shrug*

[duckphone07]

Although I also was used to the idea of elves being shorter, and liked it.  I am happy with this new direction.  Why? 

Well, I admit having elves shorter than humans was interesting in and of itself, and made more interesting by the fact that many elves were below humans and decidedly lower class.  It was a lot of fun playing a city elf and being insulted by all thes tall humans, only for my warden city elf to show them all and become the greatest hero Ferelden has ever seen!!!!

But if having the height of elves as  closer to humans means more interaction, through dialogue, cutscene, etc., then I am all for this change of height.  For me, interaction between characters is more important, and interaction that depends on height in animation is no different. 

So in conclusion, huzzah for taller elves!

[Count Viceroy]

duckphone07 wrote...


But if having the height of elves as  closer to humans means more interaction, through dialogue, cutscene, etc., then I am all for this change of height.  For me, interaction between characters is more important, and interaction that depends on height in animation is no different. 

I think, at the end of the day, this is something everybody appriciates more than the arbitrary height difference.

At least I hope so.

[tmp7704]

duckphone07 wrote...

But if having the height of elves as  closer to humans means more interaction, through dialogue, cutscene, etc., then I am all for this change of height.  For me, interaction between characters is more important, and interaction that depends on height in animation is no different. 

Wonder if that means the dwarves aren't going to be very interactive, or if they're getting the height lift next.

[Ryzaki]

tmp7704 wrote...
Wonder if that means the dwarves aren't going to be very interactive, or if they're getting the height lift next.

DA3: Now with all species able to see eye to eye! Literally!

[Shepard Lives]

tmp7704 wrote...

duckphone07 wrote...

But if having the height of elves as  closer to humans means more interaction, through dialogue, cutscene, etc., then I am all for this change of height.  For me, interaction between characters is more important, and interaction that depends on height in animation is no different. 

Wonder if that means the dwarves aren't going to be very interactive, or if they're getting the height lift next.

Gotta love jumping to idiotic conclusions. No offense, but this is an immense leap of logic you took.

As Gaider said, the very name "dwarves" requires that they be short.

[Count Viceroy]

Ryzaki wrote...

tmp7704 wrote...
Wonder if that means the dwarves aren't going to be very interactive, or if they're getting the height lift next.

DA3: Now with all species able to see eye to eye! Literally!

They'd need a new name though, dwarf wouldn't exactly cut it anymore.

Hairy? That would do, and it's still descriptive.

I play a hairy warrior.

That man is a hairy merchant.

Your hair sword is of excellent stature and quality!

I like it.

Modifié par Count Viceroy, 20 janvier 2011 - 04:47 .

[Ryzaki]

^Elves used to be considered mostly short.

[Ryzaki]

Count Viceroy wrote...

They'd need a new name though, dwarf wouldn't exactly cut it anymore.

Hairy? That would do, and it's still descriptive.

I play a hairy warrior.

That man is a hairy merchant.

Your hair sword is of excellent stature and quality!

I like it.

Would they? *looks up dictionary* 

Some definitions of elf include small frame and small. So not really.

Though maybe...stone folk? That'll work.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 20 janvier 2011 - 04:49 .

[TheRealJayDee]

tmp7704 wrote...

David Gaider wrote...

As for those calling this a ret-con-- I don't know what to say there, really. Humans come in a variety of sizes, despite the fact we only model one. Same applies to elves.

Can we get this one straight, if possible, then? Are elves in DA on average a head or so shorter than humans, or are they on average of human-like height?

The thing about making it sound like you didn't possibly realize how having every single elf in game appear considerably shorter than every single human... could be perceived by the players as species-wide characteristics, i'm sorry but that's pretty laughable.

Why someone would be especially attached to elves being markedly shorter than humans I really have no idea, but there's nothing that requires that they be.

Different height is one extra factor that sets them apart from humans when it comes to appearance. To say one doesn't get why it could be preferred as part of the species image, that's like saying one doesn't get why someone could get especially attached to the idea of dwarves being short and/or stocky.

This.

[Brockololly]

tmp7704 wrote...

David Gaider wrote...

As for those calling this a ret-con-- I don't know what to say there, really. Humans come in a variety of sizes, despite the fact we only model one. Same applies to elves.

Can we get this one straight, if possible, then? Are elves in DA on average a head or so shorter than humans, or are they on average of human-like height?

The thing about making it sound like you didn't possibly realize how having every single elf in game appear considerably shorter than every single human... could be perceived by the players as species-wide characteristics, i'm sorry but that's pretty laughable.

Yeah, I mean its not a huge thing to me really, but its just introducing another annoying inconsistency between games in what is supposed to be one continuous world of Thedas. I mean, in much of the Origins pre release hype you always heard how the DA elves weren't your typical tall, nature loving, graceful Tolkien elves and the height difference was part of that distinction. Its just that some of these cosmetic changes just seem like changes for the hell of it, and taken individually aren't necessarily a huge deal, but bundled up all together, it just makes the Thedas of DA2 feel very little like the Thedas which was supposedly established in Origins.

So now DA2 elves had some race wide growth spurt? Maybe they'll sprout horns for DA3:blink:

Its just that some of these seemingly smaller cosmetic changes just seem like changes for  the hell of it, and taken individually aren't necessarily a huge deal,  but bundled up all together, it just makes the Thedas of DA2 feel very  little like the Thedas which was supposedly established in Origins.

Modifié par Brockololly, 20 janvier 2011 - 04:52 .

[Addai]

Ryzaki wrote...

Ah my bad then. But that would be the same thing for anyone who slept with Zevran even those female elves who were shorter than him. Their height doesn't make it anymore or anyless sexual harassment.

But with a human noble, she already has power by virtue of her race and class.  It's a hell of a lot more pronounced than with my Tabris and my elven blood mage, both who had similar life paths and status as him.

I'm not saying it's wrong or that other people shouldn't like it.  I have my preferences just as anyone else does.  The height difference was just something I noticed that felt weird about HNF-Zevran.  No need to philosophize it, I just like the idea that it won't be the same in the new game.  So sue me.

Modifié par Addai67, 20 janvier 2011 - 04:55 .

[Count Viceroy]

Ryzaki wrote...

Would they? *looks up dictionary* 

Some definitions of elf include small frame and small. So not really.

Though maybe...stone folk? That'll work.

'Dwarf' its in the name though. It's implied that they are short(er).

stone folk, man, sterotypes I tell you!. I swear If I made fiction, *my* dwarves would be tall, thin, despise alchohol and work with wood only.

[Shepard Lives]

"Now dwarves, sire, are like angry beards on legs. Angry, beer-soaked beards on legs."

I have no idea where this quote is from, but I love it.

Modifié par Shepard Lives, 20 janvier 2011 - 04:55 .

[tmp7704]

Shepard Lives wrote...

Gotta love jumping to idiotic conclusions. No offense, but this is an immense leap of logic you took.

It's usually called "reductio ad absurdum". To put it in more plain terms, it's funny how the dwarves don't have to undergo species-wide transformation in DA2 for the sake of that alleged extra interactivity, yet still get books thrown in their face, toss things and do all sorts of tricks.

No offense but if you believe the height of characters tremendously affects the amount of conversations and such the characters can partake, that's rather gullible.

[ankuu]

Guys, Ser Gaider gave you 2 reasons (solid reasons) to explain the change, can't you let it go? Lots of changes occurred, but Bioware usually goes forth, not back.

Modifié par ankuu, 20 janvier 2011 - 09:57 .