10 réponses à ce sujet

[mmu1]

I'll be honest - I don't like the RPG system Bioware came up with for Dragon Age. It doesn't stop me from enjoying the game, but it's by far my least favorite part of it.

I prefer games in which a character, without choosing from ability trees, still has some kind of core skill set that will serve him or her well, and that can be built on by picking specializations, feats, talents, what have you. One where what you chose to focus on makes a big difference, but it's not the end-all, be-all when it comes to what your character can do.

DAO forces you to assign every last ability point, and every single talent, but in the end, most viable characters will end up spending those points in the same, predictable ways... in particular, the martial classes.

I think things would be better off, by far, if 90% of what you can do wouldn't depend on what ability tree you chose (which, at the same time, makes you useless at using other weapon types), but if the split was closer to 50/50, or 40/60 - if (for example) a warrior automatically got a broad range of less powerful abilities at level up that would be useful in most combat situations, and used talent points to excel in particular areas, or made those basic abilities very powerful.

And while it's not as big of an issue when it comes to mages, the idea that you can easily design a character that does four different types of damage but aside from that, can't even cast the simplest cantrip, also strikes me as kind of absurd.

The whole point of having class and level based RPG systems is to provide defined archetypes that work - in exchange for giving up the freedom to customize completely, you get a certain amount of security - your character might not shine, but he'll at the very least be competent. At the other end of the spectrum, point-based systems give you complete freedom to customize, but you run the risk of creating characters that are great in one area, but so useless in (for example) combat as to be crippled. It seems like the designers decided to create a system using the worst aspects of both - all the limitations and lack of flexibility of a class-based system, combined with the ability to completely gimp your character if you make the wrong choices and don't focus your points in a specific area.

[Unbroken Lineage]

I prefer more control over character progression, and am pleased that this is what I get with Dragon Age.

--edit-- I forgot, Dragon Age comes with an "Auto Level" option, where you just let the game decide how your character should grow.  Try that.

Modifié par Unbroken Lineage, 13 novembre 2009 - 09:25 .

[Bullets McDeath]

DO NOT AUTO LEVEL



You'll just have to start the damn game over.

[yullyuk]

outlaworacle wrote...

DO NOT AUTO LEVEL

You'll just have to start the damn game over.

i agree you wont get anything you want so dont do it

[mmu1]

Unbroken Lineage wrote...

I prefer more control over character progression, and am pleased that this is what I get with Dragon Age.

--edit-- I forgot, Dragon Age comes with an "Auto Level" option, where you just let the game decide how your character should grow.  Try that.

That doesn't really address my point at all, does it? I never said I want the computer to make my choices for me, just that I want more basic abilities in addition to being able to specialize in a particular type of weapon, or spell.  For example... giving all warriors an ability to stun that's independent of what weapon they're using, but which can be upgraded to be most effective if you go with the sword-and-shield ability tree and put a point into "shield bash".    

Focus is all well and good, characters which can excel at everything usually get boring, but many DAO characters end up being complete one-trick ponies, and I would like some variety. I think having two "layers" of talents would do the trick.

[Taleroth]

mmu1 wrote...

Unbroken Lineage wrote...

I prefer more control over character progression, and am pleased that this is what I get with Dragon Age.

--edit-- I forgot, Dragon Age comes with an "Auto Level" option, where you just let the game decide how your character should grow.  Try that.

That doesn't really address my point at all, does it? I never said I want the computer to make my choices for me, just that I want more basic abilities in addition to being able to specialize in a particular type of weapon, or spell.  For example... giving all warriors an ability to stun that's independent of what weapon they're using, but which can be upgraded to be most effective if you go with the sword-and-shield ability tree and put a point into "shield bash".    

Focus is all well and good, characters which can excel at everything usually get boring, but many DAO characters end up being complete one-trick ponies, and I would like some variety. I think having two "layers" of talents would do the trick.

This is were specializations come in.


You're also only looking at this from a destination over journey point of view, which is silly if you're not playing an MMO.  At the end, Warriors will be the same (if you ignore their specializations, which you shouldn't).  But before that, the higher dex warrior will have better defensive shield talents.  Or maybe they'll choose to wait until later in the game for a taunt.

I've got two Sword and Shield Warriors currently running in my party and they are DRASTICALLY different.  One's a taunting Templar who I use to focus on mages.  One's a CC'ing Champion that I use to keep elites on the ground while we pummel normals.  One has taunts and gets the aggro.  One has more abilities that knockdown/stun.  One is set up to be able to get to Shield Mastery several levels sooner, as well, so he'll be the one to lead charges at archers.

Modifié par Taleroth, 13 novembre 2009 - 10:12 .

[mmu1]

Taleroth wrote...

mmu1 wrote...

Unbroken Lineage wrote...

I prefer more control over character progression, and am pleased that this is what I get with Dragon Age.

--edit-- I forgot, Dragon Age comes with an "Auto Level" option, where you just let the game decide how your character should grow.  Try that.

That doesn't really address my point at all, does it? I never said I want the computer to make my choices for me, just that I want more basic abilities in addition to being able to specialize in a particular type of weapon, or spell.  For example... giving all warriors an ability to stun that's independent of what weapon they're using, but which can be upgraded to be most effective if you go with the sword-and-shield ability tree and put a point into "shield bash".    

Focus is all well and good, characters which can excel at everything usually get boring, but many DAO characters end up being complete one-trick ponies, and I would like some variety. I think having two "layers" of talents would do the trick.

This is were specializations come in.

Except for the part where they're the exact opposite of what I'm talking about, yeah, they're just the thing. <_<

Modifié par mmu1, 13 novembre 2009 - 10:11 .

[Taleroth]

mmu1 wrote...
Except for the part where they're the exact opposite of what I'm talking about, yeah, they're just the thing. <_<

They're the opposite of your proposed solution, but they do solve a problem you claim exists.  They prevent classes from being one-trick ponies or all alike.

Modifié par Taleroth, 13 novembre 2009 - 10:15 .

[Sylvius the Mad]

He thinks that they're all alike is a good thing, and given that they're all alike why not just enforce that and eliminate the rick of choosing talents and skills badly.

I think it's a terrible idea - as it would make it very difficult to benefit from having multiple party members of the same class - but I'm pretty sure I've described the OP's suggestion correctly.

Modifié par Sylvius the Mad, 13 novembre 2009 - 10:21 .

[Taleroth]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

He thinks that they're all alike is a good thing,

Then why would he say

but many DAO characters end up being complete one-trick ponies, and I would like some variety.

[Unbroken Lineage]

Each class has a bunch of passive and activated abilities that are applicable across talent disciplines and specializations. And there's no compulsion to get all four of any given discipline or specialization.

My characters are not one-trick ponies, and are not dysfunctional. I'm only playing on hard, but I don't see the problem the OP sees.

Modifié par Unbroken Lineage, 14 novembre 2009 - 12:45 .