10 réponses à ce sujet

[Zombie Chow]

Hi all, I unlocked the Arcane Warrior specialisation awhile back and have many Attribute and Skill points to spend.  I've already read The ultimate guide to Arcane Warriors and am now trying to decide which direction to go.

I'm not putting this in the build section because it's not just about my Mage set-up, but about the whole party's mix of skills/equipment/etc., as well as the upcoming major battles.  I'm trying to get a holistic view.

Where I'm at right now:

- level 16 in the Deep Roads of Orzammar, with 32 unspent attribute points and 11 free spells
- spellbook has Arcane Bolt, Rock Armour, the Glyph line, the Telekinesis line, Arcane Warrior's Combat Magic
- got Armour of Diligence set (I seem to have more Mana from that set bonus than from my mage robes)
- party has Wynne as a mainstay, then 2 Tanks or sometimes Morrigan, but seldom the rogues

I wish to specialise further and see 2 paths - either a Jedi swordsman or an armoured caster.  Which route do you suggest, hopefully based on your experiences?  What should I do if I take the path you suggest?

Jedi swordsman

Pros:

- with armour and Spellward with the Rune upgrades, may do more DPS (damage per second) in melee
- will take lots of tanking spells like Arcane Shield, Miasma, and Fade Shroud

Cons:

- I'm going to have to spend a lot of points to get certain sustained defensive spells
- I'll have few direct damage spells and have to spend attribute points on Dexterity (I heard I upgrade it to 30)

Armoured Caster

Pros:

- uses a staff for a huge selection of spells at my disposal, doing consistent damage at range
- can focus on Magic and Willpower attributes

Cons:

- lacks the Runes, such as the one that paralyses, which I like for long fights with bosses
- in the melee maelstrom in the late game, I find the area of effect spells less useful than just hitting people

My questions to you all

- what route do you recommend please and why?
- who should be part of my party based on the path you suggested?
- which weapons should I choose and, in case of Jedi, which Rune combinations please?
- how do you deal with the battle with Ser Cauthrian?
- how do you deal with the Archdemon please?
- do you recommend turning the other Wynne and Morrigan into Arcane Warriors?
- if Wynne and Morrigan become Arcane Warriors, what armour sets should they take?
- what spells and roles should the other mages play to complement my Mage?

Thanks for any advice you may share, expecially if they are based on actual experience.  I think Wynne and Morrigan have the most options, so it's very hard to decide on them.  There are some decisions I made:

- I'll likely use Evon the Great's armour with Wade's Superior Dragonscale pieces for the set bonus for my Mage
- I'll take this character to Awakening and Witch's Hunt
- I won't install any mods except for the camp inventory chest or modify my savegame
- I will not take Blood Magic as his specialisation for RP reasons

Modifié par Zombie Chow, 22 janvier 2011 - 01:52 .

[Elhanan]

Evon's mail is great, but do not overlook storing or packing Cailan's armor & arms, Battledress DLC, or Vestment of the Seer for options.

I heavily recommend the Respec mod for saving time to avoid reloads due to design errors. I also use it as a way to alter spells as if I had a spellbook. And the Lockbash mod is based on code not used that is found in the game; will help open containers since Rogues are not usually included.

My second spec suggestion is Spirit Healer.

Based on the little I have read, a mix of the two is one build I have enjoyed. Get DEX of 30 for wielding daggers (more runes), as well as aiding Defense for some fights. But I carry a staff as my main weapon, and go to melee if needed due to low Mana or protection, or if desired (ie; Proving matches, Landsmeet, etc). Keep sword and shield as options.

For Runes, I like to have a set of Dweomer runes for anti-magic if Mana Clash has not cleared the room, a set of Hale runes for helping against some attack forms, Paralysis for time, and iron and Silverite for special occasions.

For Ser Cauthrian, I have to beat feet, and take her on in Anora's guest room. That fight is difficult already, and I hate all those Scattershots. Archie is easy compared to Cauthrian and some others. Grab the Corruption helm in the Market District, and you may even lose Shimmering Shield for mana conservation. Use spells to slowly erode HP, Blizzard or other fave area spell when Archie tries to rest, and finish with arms of choice for the close up screenies!

I only would choose AW for Morrigan and Wynne if you wish to dress them differently, or want to micro-manage another mage. Other specs offer better attribute bonsuses for NPC's, IMO.

I grant the Glyphs to all mages; too effective for many reasons, plus combos can be done with spells from each. I tend to let Wynne take non-Entropic spells, allowing Morrigan to use the Hexes instead.

Modifié par Elhanan, 20 janvier 2011 - 06:30 .

[Zombie Chow]

Thanks for your thoughtful, thorough feedback, Elhanan.  I'm inclined to agree with almost everything you said.  I reckon the Arcane Warrior has been so talked about there's not much more to add!

Thus, I'll keep my feedback short.  I've basically played through to the Elven Alienage, having beaten the Broodmother, Branka, and Ser Cauthrian with an Arcane Warrior easier than with a pure caster Mage or a Warrior.

Here's what I believe based on my experiences:

- being an armoured caster is easier when dealing with mobs
- with a good armour set that reduces fatigue, the Arcane Warrior is as good as a pure caster Mage
- being a Jedi swordsman is easier for long boss fights, which dominate the later portions of the game
- with the right spells, the Jedi swordsman is better than a sword & shield Warrior

The learning curve is when to apply the buffs (to save mana for spells):

- Rock Armour and Arcane Shield I always keep on 100% of the time
- Combat Magic I obviously turn on when I enter melee with my sword, around 75% of the time
- Shimmering Shield I only turn on when facing bosses or get mobbed, that's around 50% of the time
- Miasma and Telekinetic Weapons I turn on if facing bosses or mobs with armour, maybe about 40% of the time

As for my party, I tried a few things, but it looks like I've really found something I like:

- Wynne, now upgraded to Arcane Warrior with the Diligence set, in charge of healing and Mana Clash
- Morrigan remains a pure caster, focusing on Blizzard, Cone of Cold, and Mind Blast
- Shale tanking, she's just the most effective tank, but sometimes substituted by Sten with the Ageless sword

Basically, I charge in and lay some Glyphs or a Crushing Prison, then prepare for melee.  I switch to Wynne to position her somewhere safe or drop a Mana Clash if facing mages.  Then as the mobs reach us, Morrigan throws up a Cone of Cold or Mind Blast.  At the same time, Shale rushes in and aggros.

Probably the special thing here is Wynne.  Arcane Warrior specialisation was a risky trade-off for her...on one hand, she gets more protection, but on the other, her wearing heavy armour draws more enemies.

Net-net, I found Wynne's safer as an Arcane Warrior actually...yes, she may attrack 1 or 2 minions into melee, but that sometimes happens anyway, and now she has armour to absorb damage.

Interestingly, this is also a good tactic to manage crowds...I've noticed enemies rushing to attack Wynne, then move to attack Shale, buying a few extra seconds to divide & conquer.

Right now, I'm thinking of keeping that party while staying mostly with Spellweaver and another weapon...I hadn't decided what yet.  But they'll be carrying the Grandmaster Paralysis and +10 darkspawn damage for sure.

[-Jaren-]

If you're going to melee (Which I personally love doing with al my AW's) grab yourself Cailen's Arms or Spellweaver + Fade Wall. I prefer Spellweaver but thats just me. Also for melee; Keep Maisma up 100% of the time. Miasma gives penalty to defense on mobs = you not whiffing as much. If you really want to have fun grab Haste

[Last Darkness]

The pure melee arcane warrior is boring...boring...boring. The armored caster is intresting and the insane arcane warrior shapeshifters can get rather nasty. One of my favorite to play characters was a Blood Mage/Warrior caster aspect.


You want some mayhem though..... Melee arcane warrior/spirit healer+Warrior Champion+Cun Rogue Bard+Shale Stone Aura. Maxiumum buffs and debuffs.

Modifié par Last Darkness, 16 février 2011 - 02:26 .

[Zombie Chow]

Thanks for bringing back this thread as it makes me re-evaluate my previous thoughts. I'm in Awakening now and am having a blast, partly because by investing in the things that allowed me to be a melee Arcane Warrior, I could use the Legion of the Dead Heraldry on my Fade Shield, which makes a huge difference.



Now, I always have Arcane Shield, Rock Armour, Combat Magic, and like Jaren suggested, Miasma all the time. Aside from debuffing enemies, Miasma's good for drawing threat, which is a benefit in itself since I usually set my party to damage dealers (like Archers in Awakening). Shimmering Shield is what I turn on and off now. Plus, since I planned ahead, I chose spells that can be cast with weapons drawn, so that's not a problem.



However, if other players ask me whether to focus on melee on just being an armoured caster, I would normally suggest just being an armoured caster. Only in certain fights does being a melee Arcane Warrior really pay off in Origins, but it is cool to see my character pull off finishing moves. In Awakening, the Legion of the Dead Heraldry makes me want to keep my shield equipped the whole time, so having melee pays off there.

[-Jaren-]

Dont get me wrong. Usually I open fights with Blood Wound + Fireball, then a CP on a mage/archer. Pull out the sword and go to town on the enemies that survived. Pure win. Armored caster and Melee Mage are usually one and the same for my AW's.

[Zombie Chow]

-Jaren- wrote...

Dont get me wrong. Usually I open fights with Blood Wound + Fireball, then a CP on a mage/archer. Pull out the sword and go to town on the enemies that survived. Pure win. Armored caster and Melee Mage are usually one and the same for my AW's.

It turns out I ended up with similar tactics and will vouch for their effectiveness.  Fireball to soften the enemy and draw aggro, let them burn while they're running at you you.  Crushing Prison to prevent mages from casting it on my party.  Then finish off with melee.

In my case, I also use Glyphs (can be cast with weapons drawn), so I can throw enemies really quite like a Jedi.  Very useful when in situations where I want to protect those NPC soldiers, etc.  In Awakening, I also got Hand of Winter.  However, I did not take Blood Magic for RP reasons.

I hear ya and all I was saying was, even though I chose the same route as you, if someone else was asking for advice, I'd say there were trade-offs for being melee effective.  There are opportunity costs.  You'll probably take the best melee gear for yourself, the best runes and equipment, as well as the best mage rings and staves.  The pay-off isn't so much the damage, but maybe the cool factor or IMHO mainly the versatility.

[Sandy2009]

I just finished an arcane warrior game couple of days back on normal (my second play through). It is fun to have three mages traveling with liliana. My PC died may be 2 times in entire game and whole party got wiped out only one time. Here are my experiences with AW.



I find tank/sword weilding build very boring. In my mind, the AW is specialization of mage, so magic is his primary strength (not sword). Why would I want to have sword fight with 20 baddies in a room when I can cast blizzard + tempest (without spell might) and walk away!!! Only bosses survive the combo. For bosses that charge into malee (like ser cathrine, Loghaine), my strategy was hex + CoC + stone fist (does not shatter but still lots of damage) followed by some bombs. Everyone in party had atleast one point in poison making, so everyone could use bombs.

[Zombie Chow]

Sandy2009 wrote...

Why would I want to have sword fight with 20 baddies in a room when I can cast blizzard + tempest (without spell might) and walk away!!! Only bosses survive the combo. For bosses that charge into malee (like ser cathrine, Loghaine), my strategy was hex + CoC + stone fist (does not shatter but still lots of damage)...

This.  Very this.

Basically, I ask myself "what could my Arcane Warrior do in melee that he couldn't with spells?"  While I love the option to melee, there's only a few reasons, since staves do decent DPS as they never miss and are ranged:

- make use of runes, mainly the +10 damage to Darkspawn and Paralysis ones, dual-wielding just for rune slots
- in the Final Battle, I found weapons better in the multi-Ogre fights and Assassin battles (probably due to runes)

The sobering alternative is to see where a standard mage is actually better than the Arcane Warrior.  Although I already had a melee-ready mage, sometimes I switched back to pure spellcasting mode:

- fighting Loghain one-on-one, I could only beat him with Crushing Prison with other spells, not the sword
- fighting the Archdemon, I switched to a staff I got off a Darkspawn boss, found it does much better DPS
- and I could still tank with Shimmering Shield, I just don't turn on Combat Magic

It comes down to nice-to-haves.  Melee is easier to manage, whereas the Cone of Cold I have to always micro-manage as not to freeze my own guys.  Melee is like a good back-up/clean-up option.  Then, in Awakening, I think the dynamics of the game (from gear to enemies to the situation) actually favour melee quite a bit more.

[Sandy2009]

Zombie Chow wrote...

Basically, I ask myself "what could my Arcane Warrior do in melee that he couldn't with spells?"  While I love the option to melee, there's only a few reasons, since staves do decent DPS as they never miss and are ranged:

- make use of runes, mainly the +10 damage to Darkspawn and Paralysis ones, dual-wielding just for rune slots
- in the Final Battle, I found weapons better in the multi-Ogre fights and Assassin battles (probably due to runes)

The sobering alternative is to see where a standard mage is actually better than the Arcane Warrior.  Although I already had a melee-ready mage, sometimes I switched back to pure spellcasting mode:

- fighting Loghain one-on-one, I could only beat him with Crushing Prison with other spells, not the sword
- fighting the Archdemon, I switched to a staff I got off a Darkspawn boss, found it does much better DPS
- and I could still tank with Shimmering Shield, I just don't turn on Combat Magic

From RP point of view, here is how I look at AW build. An AW is an intelligent fighter, not a dumb brute force tank (like Shale). He belongs to the most powerful duel class in the game (an elite class). All the powerful bosses in the game use magic attack (Uldred, Archdeamon, Flemeth, Sloth, Generals). To counter those bosses, AW develops 75% resistance through fade surround and uses selective magic capabilities like mana clash, blizzard etc as needed. He needs some decent mana pool, not just a puddle (as suggested by some guides). I did put in points in willpower so that I don't have to use potions. Physically AW is not that strong because he grew up in circle of magi learning magic... not buiding muscles.

The sword  and armour were useful when I got surrounded by malee fighters in some unexpected ways (like warewolfs appearing from thin air). That time my spellweaver with +5 runes came in handy. The sword was a life saving, last resort mechanism... not a preferential way to lead the offensive.

Staves/staff are very powerful (borderline overpowered). They have very long reach and never miss. My party of 3 mages won the entire final battle by just using the staves. Stay far away from enemy and keep attacking from staves. By the time they rush and reach the party, they are dead. The damage of stave depends on spell power, so by end game their damage and armor penetration is excellent. (final reason + 2 winter breath). Same worked for all the three dragons. Not a single party member died during final battle.