155 réponses à ce sujet

[Moiaussi]

adam_grif wrote...

Breasts are a defininig characersitic of mammals on Earth. They are a feature of our species, but they are were not essential for our succes as a species. That is to say, there's no reason why aliens would have them, except that they were designed specifically to look appealing to modern human males. In ME1 Asari looked so human it was sickening, they are literally a human body with head tentacles and blue skin. The probability that such a thing would occur is staggeringly low, and their design is completely awful and poorly thought out. It is not just Turian females people complain about, we've had threads about how terrible the Asari are many times in the past. They are by far the worst offenders.

In reality, probability is either 1 or 0. Mathematicly, probability is just a way of guessing likely outcomes based on what is known. We don't have enough data to make the conclusions you are coming to.

Even just looking at Earth, humans are not the only mammals, and mammals generally are successful at survival.

Given that the estimated probability of life occurring at all is 'staggeringly low', by your logic, we shouldn't exist and humans shouldn't be in ME at all.

In the words of the Turian Councellor, "Humans? We have dismissed that claim."

Yeah that'd be because having eyes similar to a human and dextrous limbs are necessary for a species filling the same evolutionary niche as a human on their respective planet. If it was just a frog it never could have developed technology in the first place. There are good evolutionary reasons why they would develop in roughly humanoid shapes, and there are plenty of aliens who fit that criterion but don't look anything like humans, so the fact that there are a couple of that do isn't jarring.

And yet mammary glands, as a method of passing nutriants to young, have no such 'good evolutionary reasons?' As long as the nutrients are water soluble, don't they allow the mother's body to process and screen nutrients to make them safer for the child, taking advantage of the mother's fully developed digestive system?

Boobs on aliens are a mamalian trait that is unnecessary for the development of a star-faring species (unlike, say, fingers). Their inclusion for no reason other than obvious pandering to 15 year old boys makes them not only unnecessary, but tasteless. There should be maybe one species other than humans that has them, max, and they shouldn't be attractive to humans because look at the damn variation on boobs in our own mammalian relatives! Most of them are NOT attractive, at all. It's just humanoid breasts specifically!

Umm, by that logic they are unneccessary for the development of humans too at this stage. Newborns can be raised on formula if need be. That they are not a requirement for being 'spacefaring' doesn't mean they served no evolutionary purpose or that they are any more or less likely than any other system for delivering nutrients to newborns.

As for the variation in mammalian mammaries, the only possible ME body type that would compare more to them than to use would be Elcor, and they are not shown as having mammaries, attractive or otherwise.

Most mammals are either significantly smaller and/or are quadropeds rather than bipeds.

[Interactive Civilian]

adam_grif wrote...

 In ME1 Asari looked so human it was sickening, they are literally a human body with head tentacles and blue skin. The probability that such a thing would occur is staggeringly low, and their design is completely awful and poorly thought out.

Funny thing about probability and highly improbable things. No matter how low the probability, things only need to happen once to exist.

Random example from the history of life on Earth: What is the probability that some monkeys clinging to broken trees floating across the early south atlantic could survive the journey, make landfall in South America, survive there and then spread successfully to all of the niches currently occupied by New World monkeys? Yeah, right. As if early monkeys could survive a storm pushed journey across an ocean on an undesigned raft of storm flotsom.

Yet all of the evidence suggests that New World monkeys diverged from Old World monkeys *after* the break-up of Gondwana and the early formation of the Atlantic Ocean. So, no matter the odds, it did happen at least once.

What are the odds of a species like the Asari evolving out there in the universe in a way that they look familiar and attractive to us and that such a species managed to spread out in the Galaxy? Insanely small. But, equally as small as any other unattractive, unfamiliar species doing the same thing. And, it only has to happen once.

It's a video game. Enjoy it. Having attractive aliens is no more or less realistic than having unattractive aliens. Until we actually meet some aliens from whom we can get some kind of idea of what the galaxy really has in store for us, anything goes.

That said, I do like seeing variety, so it is nice to see that not all sexual dimorphism in aliens is being done to our aesthetic standards of sleek, sexy curves. So, while I like Asari sexiness, I also applaud Turian female unsexiness.

Modifié par Interactive Civilian, 21 janvier 2011 - 02:25 .

[Radwar]

Imperium Alpha wrote...

Are you guys serious ?...

Lol, it's a running joke.

You see, the Turian groundskeeper (The Turian who you ask if there are fish in the presidium water), there's some dialog he has that wasn't used in the game. One of his missing dialogues are about humans & asari & their funny bumps.

Here's the link if you want to hear his dialogue, it's pretty funny.

Modifié par Radwar, 21 janvier 2011 - 02:32 .

[Doctor_Jackstraw]

I think it makes sense for Asari and maybe Drell. I envision female krogan rather being like....really big dominating versions of krogan. like a "queen" sort of aspect, where the men are servants to the large monster queen capablt of giving birth to super monster alien krogans.



salarians....i could go either way.



I'm okay with female turrian, i wouldn't mind seeing a major one in the third game.

[Sbri]

They actually showed a female Krogan on Tuchanka. She was easy to miss, but she was there. I remember her body looking a little smaller then the others, but I saw no other difference. Her voice was also....."softer"? When you try to talk to her she says something to the effect of, "The female clans do not talk to aliens."

[Anacronian Stryx]

Sbri wrote...

They actually showed a female Krogan on Tuchanka. She was easy to miss, but she was there. I remember her body looking a little smaller then the others, but I saw no other difference. Her voice was also....."softer"? When you try to talk to her she says something to the effect of, "The female clans do not talk to aliens."

The female clan spokesman is male.

[adam_grif]

In reality, probability is either 1 or 0. Mathematicly, probability is
just a way of guessing likely outcomes based on what is known.

So um, how is that different from what I'm doing here? Guessing likely outcomes based on what is known? Also, quite a few things in physics are probabilistic not deterministic, i.e. have probabilities of neither 1 nor 0, but that's beside the point here.

We don't have enough data to make the conclusions you are coming to.

We can easily draw inferences based off life on Earth and make rational arguments by examining what characteristics are going to be required for a successful technological civilization to appear and what characteristics are posssessed by us, but not required for a successful technological civilizaiton to appear. The former are traits that we should expect to see in other civilizations, the latter are ones we should not.

Even just looking at Earth, humans are not the only mammals, and mammals generally are successful at survival.

The supermajority of all life on Earth is non-Mammalian. They are also highly successful. Mammals are no more successful than any other family, with the sole exception of humans who are successful not because of their breast feeding, but because of their large brains. Actually, the most successful species are bacterial, but...

Given that the estimated probability of life occurring at all is
'staggeringly low', by your logic, we shouldn't exist and humans
shouldn't be in ME at all.

What kind of argument are you making? We know humans exist because humans exist. What we're arguing is that other life should not automatically be like us, and they most certainly should not be so much like us we are sexually attractive to them and vice versa, given that the only species on a planet with billions of species (who we actually share a common ancestry with) that is attractive to an average human is... humans. There are a few eccentrics here and there who are attracted to dogs and horses, and if a small number of people get turned on by an Elcor or Volus that's to be expected. What isn't to be expected is that we will see this:



A species so physiologically like human females that they fit into the same armor with no problems.

There are a huge number of characteristics that are unique to any given species, that have nothing to do with said species evolutionary success. These characteristics are "luck of the draw", and any given configuration of them is exceedingly unlikely, however it must have a specific configuration by virtue of existing. But that another species would happen by chance upon the same or even many of the same arbitrary characteristics is exceptionally implausible.

If you roll a 6 sided die 1000 times in sequence, you will get a sequence whose likelyhood of occuring was ~7.05 E -779. And yet, every time you roll the dice 1000 times, you get a sequence of the same miniscule likelyhood. This relates to the above - the idea that two species that are wholly unrelated could evolve to be so physiologically similar is astoundingly unlikely. Here is a species that not only evolved on Earth, but is very closely related to us and fills the same evolutionary niche that we did when we were developing:



That's a mother and baby chimp. Awww innity cute? But look at the mother. She is actually a mammal, yet she doesn't have perfect D cup breasts that would fit into a human armor. Isn't that strange! So, even given breasts, why do these aliens all look like modern human standards of female attractiveness?  You sure you want to defend this?

And yet mammary glands, as a method of passing nutriants to young, have no such 'good evolutionary reasons?'

Derp derp. Mammary glands are not better for passing nutrients to a child than regurgitating partially digested fish into their mouths. The point isn't that mammary glands are useless, it's that they have nothing to do with humans becoming as successful as they have been, has nothing to do with them evolving the level of intelligence that they have, and has nothing to do with constructing a space-faring society. We have them because we evolved from other species who had them, not because it's some intrinsic requirement to get to where we are today.

Most mammals are either significantly smaller and/or are quadropeds rather than bipeds.

Already posted a picture above.

What are the odds of a species like the Asari evolving out there in
the universe in a way that they look familiar and attractive to us and
that such a species managed to spread out in the Galaxy? Insanely small.
But, equally as small as any other unattractive, unfamiliar species
doing the same thing. And, it only has to happen once.

Yeah, the probability of Shepard guessing the combination to a 400 digit hexidecimal electronic safe is also exceedingly small, but if that happened in game I'm sure we'd all be complaining about how implausible it was.  List of races that are attractive to humans:

- Quarians
- Asari
- Drell

Compared to the 9 that aren't (not counting things like REAPERS and GETH for obvious reasons). So what, 25% of randomly chosen non-human species are generally attractive to us? What kind of ridiculousness is that? Zero percent of non human species on Earth fit the bill <_< If you want to bring up bestiality, then I'm going to bring up Fornax.

Modifié par adam_grif, 21 janvier 2011 - 03:08 .

[Icinix]

I protest about everything. The boobs is pretty low down on that list, but it still makes it.

[Il Divo]

Grif, I have to say, your powers of reasoning are scary. And I mean that as a compliment.

[shnizzler93]

adam_grif wrote...

If breasts on Asari, or any other alien species, gets you that bent out of shape, don't play the game. Better yet, just relax, take a deep breath, and realize that thinking too much into a video game is pointless. Your complaint about breasts can be leveled at just about any work of sci-fi/ fantasy fiction.
                   
                    Take Oblivion: There is absolutely no reason why elves, orcs, etc should or could have such large breasts.

                    Take Star Trek: (granted these were all played by human actors, naturally) Why do they have to have attractive female species that Captain Kirk has sex with?

                    Take any sci-fi fiction: How can we possibly assume that any other form of life in the universe even remotely resembles the sapient species on Earth?

[Interactive Civilian]

adam_grif wrote...

Yeah, the probability of Shepard guessing the combination to a 400 digit hexidecimal electronic safe is also exceedingly small, but if that happened in game I'm sure we'd all be complaining about how implausible it was.  List of races that are attractive to humans:

- Quarians
- Asari
- Drell

Compared to the 9 that aren't (not counting things like REAPERS and GETH for obvious reasons). So what, 25% of randomly chosen non-human species are generally attractive to us? What kind of ridiculousness is that? Zero percent of non human species on Earth fit the bill <_< If you want to bring up bestiality, then I'm going to bring up Fornax.

1.) Well, I don't know about your Shepard, but my routinely identifies and compiles the correct code needed to break into whatever firewall she comes across. She also routinely has the proper electronic parts to do manual bypasses of various systems. She also travels around the Galaxy in a space-ship using mass effect technology. I'm willing to forgive implausibility in a sci-fi game.

2.) Not all humans find all of those species attractive. For the part of my Cmdr Shepard, Asari are the only ones. Oh, and why no love for Garrus on your list?

3.) I don't need to bring up beastiality. I can just bring up Furries. They combine human charactieristics they find attractive to characteristics of other animals they find attractive.

And, for the record, my Commander Shepard always buys a copy of Fornax.

[Inquisitor Recon]

A 10 paragraph post with numbers and pictures of monkeys? Your over-thinking this.

Boobs or no boobs, female turians shouldn't look like *that*.

Modifié par ReconTeam, 21 janvier 2011 - 03:24 .

[leggywillow]

Val Seleznyov wrote...

I think it comes down to the fact that typically, women that play video games tend to be rather homely. Hence the jealousy for someone like Tali.

Since when were stereotypes facts?  This is big news!

So this means that the men on here are obese, live in your mother's basement, and have never spoken to a woman in real life?  This whole time I thought that was just a mean stereotype, but now it turns out it's true the whole time!  I'm enlightened!

[Icinix]

leggywillow wrote...

Val Seleznyov wrote...

I think it comes down to the fact that typically, women that play video games tend to be rather homely. Hence the jealousy for someone like Tali.

Since when were stereotypes facts?  This is big news!

So this means that the men on here are obese, live in your mother's basement, and have never spoken to a woman in real life?  This whole time I thought that was just a mean stereotype, but now it turns out it's true the whole time!  I'm enlightened!

Look, just because thats what I am, doesn't mean I don't have SOME redeeming features. I mean, I can make a mean Laksa...when my mum does shopping for the ingredients.

[James2912]

What about the Turians scaly vagina's thats even more creepy!

[Dean_the_Young]

A topic Griff and I are in absolute complete agreement over?



Scary.

[Alphia]

Val Seleznyov wrote...

I think it comes down to the fact that typically, women that play video games tend to be rather homely. Hence the jealousy for someone like Tali.

I think it's less jealousy and more the fact that every time boobs are shoved up in your face you realize this game was not made for you.

[adam_grif]

If breasts on Asari, or any other alien species, gets you that bent out of shape, don't play the game. Better yet, just relax, take a deep breath, and realize that thinking too much into a video game is pointless. Your complaint about breasts can be leveled at just about any work of sci-fi/ fantasy fiction.

This is one of my favorite SciFi shows, I have no problem suspending disbelief. However, I was never claiming that this "ruined" the game, and there is significant middle ground between "I love this game and it's perfect" and "this game is horrible and I won't play it". I'm criticizing this because it's ridiculous, not because I think it 'ruins the game'.



Generally speaking movies and TV shows got a free pass on this sort of thing because there are surprisingly few alien tentacle monsters in the screen actors guild and they had to work with human actors or puppets if they wanted aliens. Recently CGI is cheap enough to get convincing aliens on TV and in Film, ergo District 9 aliens, who are a fantastic example of aliens done right. They can't even pronounce English! Glorious!



Then again, we also got Avatar, whose aliens are not only too human for comfort, but are also perfect hippies in tune with nature. Hurl.

A topic Griff and I are in absolute complete agreement over?







Scary.

Hey, that's grif, just one f.

[Sajuro]

leggywillow wrote...

Val Seleznyov wrote...

I think it comes down to the fact that typically, women that play video games tend to be rather homely. Hence the jealousy for someone like Tali.

Since when were stereotypes facts?  This is big news!

So this means that the men on here are obese, live in your mother's basement, and have never spoken to a woman in real life?  This whole time I thought that was just a mean stereotype, but now it turns out it's true the whole time!  I'm enlightened!

yep, you're right 

[Sajuro]

James2912 wrote...

What about the Turians scaly vagina's thats even more creepy!

Lined with razor sharp spikes!

[RethenX]

*looks at where the topic is at presently* "Joker get us the hell outta here! double time mister!"

[Dazaster Dellus]

Oh Stop it all of you! The Rachni Don't have boobs, The Hanar don't have boobs. So the Asari and the Quarian's do. Big Deal! It's pretty much even right now. Jeez!

Modifié par Dazaster Dellus, 21 janvier 2011 - 05:37 .

[leggywillow]

Icinix wrote...

leggywillow wrote...

Val Seleznyov wrote...

I think it comes down to the fact that typically, women that play video games tend to be rather homely. Hence the jealousy for someone like Tali.

Since when were stereotypes facts?  This is big news!

So this means that the men on here are obese, live in your mother's basement, and have never spoken to a woman in real life?  This whole time I thought that was just a mean stereotype, but now it turns out it's true the whole time!  I'm enlightened!

Look, just because thats what I am, doesn't mean I don't have SOME redeeming features. I mean, I can make a mean Laksa...when my mum does shopping for the ingredients.

Ha ha, you can't fool me!  It's a well-known fact that your kind survives entirely on Hot Pockets and Mountain Dew.  I'm onto you, sir. 

[ShadyKat]

James2912 wrote...

What about the Turians scaly vagina's thats even more creepy!

How scaly are we talking?

[Sajuro]

ShadyKat wrote...

James2912 wrote...

What about the Turians scaly vagina's thats even more creepy!

How scaly are we talking?

http://tvtropes.org/...n/VaginaDentata