215 réponses à ce sujet

[Naitaka]

Link3521 wrote...

Naitaka wrote...

The Guardian could be a possessed mage or a Spirit that crossed the Veil physically for all we know. Justice have already said that many spirit believe in the Maker, but that's as likely to be the influnece of humanity as it is to be proof that the Maker exist. It was likely that Andraste was a mage herself and she was executed by a empire run by mages. Who's too say the effect of the Ashes isn't a lingering effect of what the Archon did amplified by the Lyrium after hundreds of years sealed away on that mountain? Personally, I think there's no real proof either way, and I like it ambiguous anyway.

Now it just sounds like you're making excuses out of thin air with no proof, Andraste being a mage is possible, but spirits aren't likely to cross the veil without a host, specially good spirits, and all we know the archon did was burn her at the stake, I don't see how flames could give her ashes healing powers.

The spirit could have been summoned by the Andrastian guarding the Ashes and made into believing himself one of the follower himself over the years. What do we really know about what happened to Andraste beside what the Chant of Light says anyway? My point is that most of what we're basing our arguments around are just speculation because we don't have absolute knowledge of the world itself. Outside of a developer stating whether the Maker exist or not or it being written in the P&P rulebook, there can be no concrete proof for either case.

Modifié par Naitaka, 21 janvier 2011 - 04:15 .

[Esoj16]

Naitaka wrote...

Link3521 wrote...

Naitaka wrote...

The Guardian could be a possessed mage or a Spirit that crossed the Veil physically for all we know. Justice have already said that many spirit believe in the Maker, but that's as likely to be the influnece of humanity as it is to be proof that the Maker exist. It was likely that Andraste was a mage herself and she was executed by a empire run by mages. Who's too say the effect of the Ashes isn't a lingering effect of what the Archon did amplified by the Lyrium after hundreds of years sealed away on that mountain? Personally, I think there's no real proof either way, and I like it ambiguous anyway.

Now it just sounds like you're making excuses out of thin air with no proof, Andraste being a mage is possible, but spirits aren't likely to cross the veil without a host, specially good spirits, and all we know the archon did was burn her at the stake, I don't see how flames could give her ashes healing powers.

The spirit could have been summoned by the Andrastian guarding the Ashes and made into believing himself one of the follower himself over the years. What do we really know about what happened to Andraste beside what the Chant of Light says anyway? My point is it's most of what we're basing our arguments around are just speculation because we don't have an absolute knowledge of the world itself. Outside of a developer stating whether the Maker exist or not or it being written in the P&P rulebook, there can be no concrete proof for either case.

Well yes, I agree with you on your last statement, my point is that the theories you're talking about have zero grounding, are they a possibility? Sure, but we have no indication that they would be the case, where as Andraste and the Maker being "real" has some proof based on what we witnessed in DA:O, ergo the possibility of the Maker's existence is higher than the possibility of the whole chant being a lie.

[DamnThoseDisplayNames]

My point is that most of what we're basing our arguments around are just speculation

It's what developers wanted (I say that 'cause I maked some homebrew settings myself for friends and some others). They want speculation, because that means that players think about the setting, which meand players care, thus they are plunged deeper into the setting and atmosphere of a game. It's a sign that they did their job well.

[Erani]

Link3521 wrote...

Elton John is dead wrote...

Shepard Lives wrote...

Punch the Grand Cleric in the face. While screaming THIS IS FOR YOU GALILEO!

Galileo was Christian, he just didn't believe the whole Bible was literal truth but still believed in God and Christ. You should read up on him before assuming things.

Anyway, I made a topic about this before months ago. Hundreds replied and the conclusion was that The Maker will always remain as a debatable subject within DA's universe. Although who knows what Bioware will do?

Not to mention that we owe many scientific discoveries to religion, who do you think funded scientific research for so many centuries? Mendel anyone? People nowadays focus on the errors of the church without remembering the good it has done for so many centuries.

Please! The "church" hasn't funded any  scientific research, with the exception of  "research" on how to cure homosexuality. Galileo was condemned by the Catholic Church as a heretic for his ideas on astronomy and had to live the rest of his life under house arrest.
Now, it is true that religious faith or, I guess you could say belief in the divine/superior order influenced many great scientists including Einstein, but the institutions of organized religion haven't done anything to advance science.

Modifié par Erani, 21 janvier 2011 - 04:20 .

[Naitaka]

Link3521 wrote...

*snip*

Yah, but there could be a million way to explain why we saw what we saw in DA:O, so honestly, I can't take them as evidence that the Maker is more likely to be real than not. I think that Bioware did a great job with the Fade and Spirits to make the whole business really shrouded in mystery, and I like it that way just fine.

[Esoj16]

Erani wrote...

Please! The "church" hasn't funded any  scientific research, with the exception of  "research" on how to cure homosexuality. Galileo was condemned by the Catholic Church as a heretic for his ideas on astronomy and had to live the rest of his life under house arrest.
Now, it is true that religious faith or, I guess you could say belief in the divine/superior order influenced many great scientists including Einstein, but the institutions of organized religion haven't done anything to advance science.

 That statement is just ignorant so I'm just going to ignore it.  Absolutes are never true (see what i did thur?) I'm not saying the church is all good, far from it, but it's not all bad as some people seem to think, btw this has nothing to do with DA and this discussion so please let's drop it here.

[blothulfur]

There is no maker, there is only the Qun learn this now or risk being our enemy when we come to liberate you from the darkness of falsehood and superstition.

Thought for the day: Ask not what the Qun would have you do for you should allready know.

[JediHealerCosmin]

BioWare is the Maker 

[Esoj16]

Naitaka wrote...

Link3521 wrote...

*snip*

Yah, but there could be a million way to explain why we saw what we saw in DA:O, so honestly, I can't take them as evidence that the Maker is more likely to be real than not. I think that Bioware did a great job with the Fade and Spirits to make the whole business really shrouded in mystery, and I like it that way just fine.

Agreed, as a Mathematically and scientifically inclined person I tend to measure the odds of one possibility over another, of course possibilities are just that, nothing moreB)

[packardbell]

Nope. He went to the ME universe to try his luck there.

[DamnThoseDisplayNames]

He went to the ME universe to try his luck there...

..With some big stupid jellyfishes?

[packardbell]

DamnThoseDisplayNames wrote...

He went to the ME universe to try his luck there...

..With some big stupid jellyfishes?

He created teh REAPERZ.

[thegoldfinch]

vilnii wrote...
Nothing is certain.

That is the point, I think.

There are religious parallels from the real world to Thedas, as well as reoccuring religious themes in the game. Can we ever know for certain if God really exists? No. So I doubt we will ever know if the Maker exists, either, even if there are characters in the game that claim to have seen his work. Religion and questions of existentialism are all about uncertainty and that is no exception within the game.

My first PC will be a mage and I don't think she'll approve of organized religion the way it currently stands.

Modifié par pixieface, 21 janvier 2011 - 05:02 .

[Eternal Phoenix]

blothulfur wrote...

There is no maker, there is only the Qun learn this now or risk being our enemy when we come to liberate you from the darkness of falsehood and superstition.
Thought for the day: Ask not what the Qun would have you do for you should allready know.

Damn it! Not you again! You're everywhere when it comes to arguments about The Maker and Qunari! They should put you in Dragon Age III where you just pop up randomly even in places where there is suppose to be no life...

[Ryllen Laerth Kriel]

I am the Maker so yes, I do exist. Now go mine more lyrium for me, I am hungry!

[blothulfur]

When there is no life there is still the Qun and thus hope.

[deuce985]

Possibly. But I don't trust the Chantry and Templars. Reading the lore, one can only come to the conclusion Chantry tries to force its religion on everyone. The states conquered by the Qunari in Thedas that were eventually freed were given the option of assistance but only if they convert to one religion from the Chantry. Templars are the Chantry's military. The Chantry itself is a central government that exploits the soft spot of everyone, religion. It says in the lore itself the Chantry looks for Templars who are great soldiers first and foremost...everything else is secondary. What does that tell you? Anyone who questions their teachings are labeled a maleficar or apostate as you see with Mages because they claim disasters are responsible from out of control Mages. Yet, Templars will kill you on sight without any emotion or thought behind it because Chantry only recruits Templars that are blind to the religion. Even unarmed Mages who willingly give up are often times struck down by the Templar.

I'm sure they have many in the Chantry/Templar who willingly do it for good but at the highest, they obviously have different agendas. The Chantry had so much political strife, hell, they're divided into two separate divine factions. They both preach somehwat different things. Which one is right? 

So does the Maker exist? Maybe. Do we know for sure just because the Chantry says so? Absolutely not. In many ways, DA reflects real world incidents. They have other religions in DA's lore too, it is just the dominant religion in Thedas and that is the only "known" world to them. But we know they have more to the world because the Qunari come from a distant continent.

I can't wait to spit in the face of the Templars/Chantry when I get DA2, So sick of their lies and poison. Who are they to dictate who I am? How can they judge me as a person just because I don't follow their laws as a Mage? Just because a Mages dabbles in what they consider forbidden, does that automatically mean you can't use it for the better good? Because I sure as hell was a Blood Mage in DA:O and saved Fereldan...so explain that to your teachings Templars/Chantry. Anders escaped the circle, he helped save the country. Did he not pay his debt to society?

Modifié par deuce985, 21 janvier 2011 - 05:56 .

[the_one_54321]

My thoughts on the existence of the Maker are that BioWare is leaving the concept deliberately ambiguous so that both players that like the idea of a god and players that don't like the idea of a god can make reasonable arguments in their own experience of the game.



My personal opinion of the story is that the Sacred Ashes quest strictly verifies the existence of "the Maker" though it doesn't explain exactly what "the Maker" is. Others will have different views on this that I won't be able to refute.

[Huntress]

I think the Maker is just a new human religion, remember elves and dwarves are older races and never heard of the Maker, each of them have their own god's.



Do a God/s rule pass the fade? Probably, many gods live and die in every culture, you need faith to make them stronger and persuation to make people believe in it. Rememebr if there is a light ruler there must be a dark ruler ( death), Life/death need a balance. I love this forum

[Maria Caliban]

October Sixth wrote...

Playing religious can be a lot of fun. I plan to make my first Hawke a believer.

My first HN Warden was a devout Andrestean. I assume my mage Hawke will be a bit of a skeptic, but the developers have said that atheism doesn't really fit the setting.

[Joy Divison]

Maker's breath!

[Naitaka]

Joy Divison wrote...

Maker's breath!

What about Oghren's breath?

[Huntress]

Naitaka wrote...

Joy Divison wrote...

Maker's breath!

What about Oghren's breath?

[EighmyLupin]

I think the Maker is real, but the Chantry doesn't really have everything about him right. They uses the chants to fit their purposes and often times might even accidentally misread them thinking they mean one thing when in reality it means something different. Look at RL how many religions do we have for one Bible, just simply because people can’t agree on what certain things in the Bible mean.



So yes the Maker is real, but whether he's anything like the Chantry thinks he is, is another story.