215 réponses à ce sujet

[slimgrin]

ErichHartmann wrote...

I'm pretty sure Gaider said the Maker's existence or lack thereof would never be revealed.

lol. I wonder if he's being cagey, or making a real world observation there...

[slimgrin]

Double. Sorry

Modifié par slimgrin, 21 janvier 2011 - 07:18 .

[Harid]

Maria Caliban wrote...

October Sixth wrote...

Playing religious can be a lot of fun. I plan to make my first Hawke a believer.

My first HN Warden was a devout Andrestean. I assume my mage Hawke will be a bit of a skeptic, but the developers have said that atheism doesn't really fit the setting.

Que?  Morrigan seemed pretty close to an atheist to me?

[thehistorysage]

I really enjoyed Leliana's take on the Maker. Just because you hate the Chantry, the Templars and the things they do, it doesn't mean the Maker should be equated with them. If someone knocked on your door and said, "Hi, I am a servant of Jeff Bridges, I believe in Jeff, and I know in my heart he wants me to punch you in the face." Does that make Jeff Bridges a bad guy? Would you hate Jeff Bridges because of what his so-called servant did? Of course not! Because in all likelyhood Jeff Bridges didn't ask that person to serve him, and would never condone punching you in the face. What I'm saying here is just because the Maker's followers are douches, doesn't mean the Maker himself is.

[the_one_54321]

Let's get this straight right from the get go. Nothing makes Jeff Bridges a bad guy.

[deuce985]

the_one_54321 wrote...

My thoughts on the existence of the Maker are that BioWare is leaving the concept deliberately ambiguous so that both players that like the idea of a god and players that don't like the idea of a god can make reasonable arguments in their own experience of the game.

My personal opinion of the story is that the Sacred Ashes quest strictly verifies the existence of "the Maker" though it doesn't explain exactly what "the Maker" is. Others will have different views on this that I won't be able to refute.

Not really. Even then they put skepticism in the Sacred Ashes. If you have Oghren in your party, he gives you a explanation of why the Ashes are like they are. It is not because of the maker but more of a scientific reason...

Bioware well wrote that part of their game for sure. They don't confirm the maker's existence, nor completely deny him. They leave it open for both sides and I think that is very well written because it relates so much to real life.

And I agree with the above person about the Chantry/Maker/Templars. Just because you hate the Chantry/Templars, doesn't mean the Maker is fake. Perhaps they twisted things to their own agenda as done in many religions today.

My personal belief is the Maker is not the god everyone perceives him to be or is even a god...he is not all good. Why would he allow the Old Gods to exist? Why did he create the Fade? Why does he allow Blights? Etc. etc.

I think the maker is nothing like what the Chantry describes but he isn't necessarily evil either. Tales get twisted and exaggerated over time, this is a fact in our own world. Possibly not even a god as he is perceived to be. People tend to worship people they consider unnatural or being above humans in some way that they can't explain. That doesn't necessarily make someone a god because they can't explain what they seen/done, so they worship them as a "god".

The Old Gods are a example of this. These dragons have unnatural power but they aren't immortal and can be killed. Their is supposedly 7 Old Gods, 5 have died so far(if you include DA:O).

Modifié par deuce985, 21 janvier 2011 - 08:08 .

[Eveangaline]

Maria Caliban wrote...

October Sixth wrote...

Playing religious can be a lot of fun. I plan to make my first Hawke a believer.

My first HN Warden was a devout Andrestean. I assume my mage Hawke will be a bit of a skeptic, but the developers have said that atheism doesn't really fit the setting.

How could it not fit the setting? So long as there isn't concrete proof a god exists, of course there are going to be people that don't believe in any gods.

Now, if they meant someone publicly being an athiest wouldn't fit the setting, then yeah that makes sense, not the safest to say you don't follow the major religion in this setting what with how 'exalted march' happy the chantry is.

[the_one_54321]

deuce985 wrote...

the_one_54321 wrote...
Others will have different views on this that I won't be able to refute.

Not really. Even then they put skepticism in the Sacred Ashes. If you have Oghren in your party, he gives you a explanation of why the Ashes are like they are. It is not because of the maker but more of a scientific reason...

Bioware well wrote that part of their game for sure. They don't confirm the maker's experience, nor completely deny him. They leave it open for both sides and I think that is very well written because it relates so much to real life.

You see what I mean? 

Modifié par the_one_54321, 21 janvier 2011 - 08:02 .

[deuce985]

Andraste's tale is strikingly similar to Jesus in Christianity...as is the Chantry and how the Catholic Church spread its influence in the Crusades...

By that, I think Andraste's legend was exaggerated over time, IMO. That way people could make a tale of a hero that they could look up to their entire life and seeing it as something greater than they are. Giving Thedas people faith and hope as religion should do.

[Lorianno]

The maker totally exists, but I suspect dragon age 2 will ruin his previous mystical properties and now explain his workings through microscopic bacteria called makerclorian running through a mage's veins.

Modifié par Lorianno, 21 janvier 2011 - 08:19 .

[the_one_54321]

Lorianno wrote...
The maker totally exists, but I suspect dragon age 2 will ruin his previous mystical properties and now explain his workings through microscopic bacteria called makerclorian running through a mage's veins.

And I suspect that a number of players will be perfectly thrilled with the idea of getting an actual explanation instead of the whole "it's mystical magical hocus pocus and don't ask any more questions!"

Modifié par the_one_54321, 21 janvier 2011 - 08:21 .

[Lorianno]

Sir. I truly hope you're joking. If not, I will fly to your location and glove slap you with Jar Jar Binks' flayed flesh.

[the_one_54321]

I like explanations, not "it's magic! " and I think that's a fine preference to have with regard to stories. This is part of why I enjoyed Episodes I-III and why I enjoyed all of Tolkien's works so much.

[Kimarous]

Any thoughts on my "Maker is a 'their' according to oracle statue" discovery?

[pallascedar]

Shepard Lives wrote...

bobobo878 wrote...

Riloux wrote...

I think in this game, he does. The Urn of Sacred Ashes cured the Arl, did it not?

There could be another explanation, for all we know the Ashes' powers could be due to Tevinter Blood Magic.

Oghren says that the mountain contains an absurdly large and pure lyrium vein.

Also, regardless of the maker or not, Andraste was an exceptionally powerful woman, maybe she was blessed by some sort of powerful spirit and her ashes are as they are.

[thehistorysage]

I would love to know the "canon" answer myself. Some things however, we do know.

1) According to the codex: "No traveler to the Fade can fail to spot the Black City. It is one of the few constants of that ever-changing place. No matter where one might be, the city is visible. Always far off, for it seems that the only rule of geography in the Fade is that all points are equidistant from the Black City." So there is, at the very least, some truth to the tale of the Maker.

2) David Gaider has stated that he is against defining the Maker or confirming his existence. This is, he said, (paraphrased) because religion without faith is lacking in some ways. If you confirm the Maker's existence you destroy the place of faith.

3) Andraste's ashes DID cure Arl Eamon. Oghren can say it was the lyrium, but there is plenty of lyrium to be had elsewhere, Leliana can say that it definitely reveal's the Maker's existence, but the lyrium effect leaves room for error there. What it does though in reality is increase the faith of the faithful and increase the doubt of the doubtful.

4) Nothing makes Jeff Bridges a bad guy.

So we're right back where we started. Two camps, those with faith, those without. We are unlikely to get an answer though and as much as I would like to know the facts this way leaves room for everyone to be happy.

Modifié par thehistorysage, 21 janvier 2011 - 09:25 .

[deuce985]

pallascedar wrote...

Shepard Lives wrote...

bobobo878 wrote...

Riloux wrote...

I think in this game, he does. The Urn of Sacred Ashes cured the Arl, did it not?

There could be another explanation, for all we know the Ashes' powers could be due to Tevinter Blood Magic.

Oghren says that the mountain contains an absurdly large and pure lyrium vein.

Also, regardless of the maker or not, Andraste was an exceptionally powerful woman, maybe she was blessed by some sort of powerful spirit and her ashes are as they are.

How do you know she is that? Maybe she was just a symbol that had her tale stretched and exaggerated over time? Maybe her tale is somewhat true but their was no magic involved, just a woman that was emotionally strong for her people. Why does everything always have to be some unnatural explanation?

The clan that protected those ashes sure as hell thought that High Dragon was Andraste reincarnated. Do you think that was Andraste? Because they sure worshipped that dragon like she was and were willing to die by that belief.. Were they wrong? Point is, that clan likely had everything wrong and it had nothing to do with Andraste being reincarnated. They were worshipping a mindless beast. A great example of how stuff gets twisted over time!

Modifié par deuce985, 21 janvier 2011 - 09:32 .

[Harid]

deuce985 wrote...

pallascedar wrote...

Shepard Lives wrote...

bobobo878 wrote...

Riloux wrote...

I think in this game, he does. The Urn of Sacred Ashes cured the Arl, did it not?

There could be another explanation, for all we know the Ashes' powers could be due to Tevinter Blood Magic.

Oghren says that the mountain contains an absurdly large and pure lyrium vein.

Also, regardless of the maker or not, Andraste was an exceptionally powerful woman, maybe she was blessed by some sort of powerful spirit and her ashes are as they are.

How do you know she is that? Maybe she was just a symbol that had her tale stretched and exaggerated over time? Maybe her tale is somewhat true but their was no magic involved, just a woman that was emotionally strong for her people. Why does everything always have to be some unnatural explanation?

The clan that protected those ashes sure as hell thought that High Dragon was Andraste reincarnated. Do you think that was Andraste? Because they sure worshipped that dragon like she was and were willing to die by that belief.. Were they wrong? Point is, that clan likely had everything wrong and it had nothing to do with Andraste being reincarnated. They were worshipping a mindless beast. A great example of how stuff gets twisted over time!

Because the ashes actually worked?

[atheelogos]

Beerfish wrote...

Dave Gaider IS the maker, either him or Sandal.

Or both.... lol wrap your head around that! jk jk

[atheelogos]

trickybunny wrote...

DarthCaine wrote...

Riloux wrote...

I think in this game, he does. The Urn of Sacred Ashes cured the Arl, did it not?

Bring Oghren with you. He'll explain that's it's the lyrium in the mountains affecting the ashes

Holy crap I had no idea...well then to answer the  OP's question then...NO.<_< I knew there was  a reason why I made my Warden *stay silent* during the prayers instead of finishing it

And Harid...that was beautiful man...and sad becuase it's true

Wait Oghren really says that?

[Annihilator27]

Stanley Woo wrote...

Much like I would if given the chance. DOWN WITH THE ZEALOTS.

Now, let's all enjoy the religious [maelstrom]

[no swearing, please]

I'm joining your crusade.

[deuce985]

Harid wrote...

deuce985 wrote...

pallascedar wrote...

Shepard Lives wrote...

bobobo878 wrote...

Riloux wrote...

I think in this game, he does. The Urn of Sacred Ashes cured the Arl, did it not?

There could be another explanation, for all we know the Ashes' powers could be due to Tevinter Blood Magic.

Oghren says that the mountain contains an absurdly large and pure lyrium vein.

Also,
regardless of the maker or not, Andraste was an exceptionally powerful
woman, maybe she was blessed by some sort of powerful spirit and her
ashes are as they are.

How do you know she is
that? Maybe she was just a symbol that had her tale stretched and
exaggerated over time? Maybe her tale is somewhat true but their was no
magic involved, just a woman that was emotionally strong for her people.
Why does everything always have to be some unnatural explanation?

The
clan that protected those ashes sure as hell thought that High Dragon
was Andraste reincarnated. Do you think that was Andraste? Because they
sure worshipped that dragon like she was and were willing to die by that
belief.. Were they wrong? Point is, that clan likely had everything
wrong and it had nothing to do with Andraste being reincarnated. They
were worshipping a mindless beast. A great example of how stuff gets
twisted over time!

Because the ashes actually worked?

But they had a explanation as to why it worked through Oghren and it had nothing to do with a higher being...

Modifié par deuce985, 21 janvier 2011 - 10:10 .

[the_one_54321]

Oghren offers a possible explanation. Everything about the maker is deliberately ambiguous.