215 réponses à ce sujet

[deuce985]

the_one_54321 wrote...

Oghren offers a possible explanation. Everything about the maker is deliberately ambiguous.

Which is the point trying to be made. You don't have a answer as to whether he exists or not.

[deuce985]

filaminstrel wrote...

Oghren said there was a crapload of lyrium in the stone and it was doing strange things to the place, but I wouldn't say that constitutes a concrete explanation "proving" it has nothing to do with the Maker. The Maker could very well work within the confines of the mundane to ensure sufficient doubt hence the purity of blind faith.

Isn't this how all religions work? Grasping at the mundane for even the littliest things, even if it is purely coincidental. I can see why DA was wrote like this. And I agree, no point confirming the existence because what is religion without faith like was mentioned above?

[Nighteye2]

The Maker is named David Gaider. ^_-

[the_one_54321]

Nighteye2 wrote...
The Maker is named David Gaider. ^_-

Someone needs to put up a sign that says "Please don't feed the ego."

[pallascedar]

deuce985 wrote...

Harid wrote...

deuce985 wrote...

pallascedar wrote...

Shepard Lives wrote...

bobobo878 wrote...

Riloux wrote...

I think in this game, he does. The Urn of Sacred Ashes cured the Arl, did it not?

There could be another explanation, for all we know the Ashes' powers could be due to Tevinter Blood Magic.

Oghren says that the mountain contains an absurdly large and pure lyrium vein.

Also,
regardless of the maker or not, Andraste was an exceptionally powerful
woman, maybe she was blessed by some sort of powerful spirit and her
ashes are as they are.

How do you know she is
that? Maybe she was just a symbol that had her tale stretched and
exaggerated over time? Maybe her tale is somewhat true but their was no
magic involved, just a woman that was emotionally strong for her people.
Why does everything always have to be some unnatural explanation?

The
clan that protected those ashes sure as hell thought that High Dragon
was Andraste reincarnated. Do you think that was Andraste? Because they
sure worshipped that dragon like she was and were willing to die by that
belief.. Were they wrong? Point is, that clan likely had everything
wrong and it had nothing to do with Andraste being reincarnated. They
were worshipping a mindless beast. A great example of how stuff gets
twisted over time!

Because the ashes actually worked?

But they had a explanation as to why it worked through Oghren and it had nothing to do with a higher being...

If a bunch of pure lyrium made the Ashes healy, why couldn't I just pick up a rock from the mountain and throw it at Eamon? THERE ALL CURED? Oghren's explanation doesn't account for everything. Maybe the Maker blessed them, maybe some spirit blessed them (this feels exceptionally likely to me, if a spirit of hope is with Wynne, who says an exceptionally powerful spirit of say, Freedom, couldn't have protected Andraste).

Modifié par pallascedar, 21 janvier 2011 - 10:19 .

[deuce985]

Maybe because the pureness of the Lyrium is very rare and unique to that mountain and possibly the area the ashes are sitting? Who knows, it could be a lot of reasons. Not really a hard concept to grasp based on Oghren's explanation. But it was kinda crytpic. I think that was intentional though. It is one thing I like about DA's writing, not really a right or wrong opinion on things like the Maker.

Modifié par deuce985, 21 janvier 2011 - 10:28 .

[blothulfur]

Anybody else ever think that whatever spirit was inhabiting Andraste saw the chance when it came to Tevinter and traded up to Archon Whatisface, thus birthing the imperial chantry and claiming the greatest power on Thedas?

[Harid]

deuce985 wrote...

Harid wrote...

deuce985 wrote...

pallascedar wrote...

Shepard Lives wrote...

bobobo878 wrote...

Riloux wrote...

I think in this game, he does. The Urn of Sacred Ashes cured the Arl, did it not?

There could be another explanation, for all we know the Ashes' powers could be due to Tevinter Blood Magic.

Oghren says that the mountain contains an absurdly large and pure lyrium vein.

Also,
regardless of the maker or not, Andraste was an exceptionally powerful
woman, maybe she was blessed by some sort of powerful spirit and her
ashes are as they are.

How do you know she is
that? Maybe she was just a symbol that had her tale stretched and
exaggerated over time? Maybe her tale is somewhat true but their was no
magic involved, just a woman that was emotionally strong for her people.
Why does everything always have to be some unnatural explanation?

The
clan that protected those ashes sure as hell thought that High Dragon
was Andraste reincarnated. Do you think that was Andraste? Because they
sure worshipped that dragon like she was and were willing to die by that
belief.. Were they wrong? Point is, that clan likely had everything
wrong and it had nothing to do with Andraste being reincarnated. They
were worshipping a mindless beast. A great example of how stuff gets
twisted over time!

Because the ashes actually worked?

But they had a explanation as to why it worked through Oghren and it had nothing to do with a higher being...

Yes, but Oghren is an idiot.  I have no reason to believe he knows anything as to why the ashes worked.

[HiroVoid]

Harid wrote...

deuce985 wrote...

Harid wrote...

deuce985 wrote...

pallascedar wrote...

Shepard Lives wrote...

bobobo878 wrote...

Riloux wrote...

I think in this game, he does. The Urn of Sacred Ashes cured the Arl, did it not?

There could be another explanation, for all we know the Ashes' powers could be due to Tevinter Blood Magic.

Oghren says that the mountain contains an absurdly large and pure lyrium vein.

Also,
regardless of the maker or not, Andraste was an exceptionally powerful
woman, maybe she was blessed by some sort of powerful spirit and her
ashes are as they are.

How do you know she is
that? Maybe she was just a symbol that had her tale stretched and
exaggerated over time? Maybe her tale is somewhat true but their was no
magic involved, just a woman that was emotionally strong for her people.
Why does everything always have to be some unnatural explanation?

The
clan that protected those ashes sure as hell thought that High Dragon
was Andraste reincarnated. Do you think that was Andraste? Because they
sure worshipped that dragon like she was and were willing to die by that
belief.. Were they wrong? Point is, that clan likely had everything
wrong and it had nothing to do with Andraste being reincarnated. They
were worshipping a mindless beast. A great example of how stuff gets
twisted over time!

Because the ashes actually worked?

But they had a explanation as to why it worked through Oghren and it had nothing to do with a higher being...

Yes, but Oghren is an idiot.  I have no reason to believe he knows anything as to why the ashes worked.

Oghren: Ouch.

[JamesX]

As other have said before there is no proof that Andreaste is actually the maker's bride, or simply a host of an awesome spirit, or maybe even a ruthessly genius demon. The spirit may very well be "the maker" or it can just be one of those spirits from beyond the fade. As it stands it is equally plausible as the Maker's idea.



Plus why would the maker's bride's body parts heal all wounds? It makes little sense.



All we know for sure is Andreaste is very powerful. Her remains have gained healing properties after her death. Or else she can just nibble on herself and be saved from the fire.



The source and cause of this power is complete speculation.

[Fidget6]

thehistorysage wrote...

I really enjoyed Leliana's take on the Maker. Just because you hate the Chantry, the Templars and the things they do, it doesn't mean the Maker should be equated with them. If someone knocked on your door and said, "Hi, I am a servant of Jeff Bridges, I believe in Jeff, and I know in my heart he wants me to punch you in the face." Does that make Jeff Bridges a bad guy? Would you hate Jeff Bridges because of what his so-called servant did? Of course not! Because in all likelyhood Jeff Bridges didn't ask that person to serve him, and would never condone punching you in the face. What I'm saying here is just because the Maker's followers are douches, doesn't mean the Maker himself is.

Leliana's unconventional religious views is a big part of why I loved her so much. Some of my Christian friends have similar views. They believe in God and Christ, but they don't necessarilly agree with the mindset of many radical/ultra conservative Christians.

[moilami]

Harid wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...

October Sixth wrote...

Playing religious can be a lot of fun. I plan to make my first Hawke a believer.

My first HN Warden was a devout Andrestean. I assume my mage Hawke will be a bit of a skeptic, but the developers have said that atheism doesn't really fit the setting.

Que?  Morrigan seemed pretty close to an atheist to me?

No, Morri wanted to breed with the warden to make some kind of old god spawn. I don't remember it exactly but it appeared she clearly believed on some gods.


Edit: Or am I wrong in this?

Modifié par moilami, 22 janvier 2011 - 01:45 .

[moilami]

pallascedar wrote...

Shepard Lives wrote...

bobobo878 wrote...

Riloux wrote...

I think in this game, he does. The Urn of Sacred Ashes cured the Arl, did it not?

There could be another explanation, for all we know the Ashes' powers could be due to Tevinter Blood Magic.

Oghren says that the mountain contains an absurdly large and pure lyrium vein.

Also, regardless of the maker or not, Andraste was an exceptionally powerful woman, maybe she was blessed by some sort of powerful spirit and her ashes are as they are.

Proof? Someone said so?

[Harid]

moilami wrote...

Harid wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...

October Sixth wrote...

Playing religious can be a lot of fun. I plan to make my first Hawke a believer.

My first HN Warden was a devout Andrestean. I assume my mage Hawke will be a bit of a skeptic, but the developers have said that atheism doesn't really fit the setting.

Que?  Morrigan seemed pretty close to an atheist to me?

No, Morri wanted to breed with the warden to make some kind of old god spawn. I don't remember it exactly but it appeared she clearly believed on some gods.


Edit: Or am I wrong in this?

Never seemed to me she called an Old God an "Old God" out of reverence, but more so out of. . .that being what they were called.  And she doesn't always refer to it as an old god, she calls it a creature, several times I believe.

[moilami]

filaminstrel wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...

but the developers have said that atheism doesn't really fit the setting.

Have the quote on-hand?

Creators of RPGs spend time making gods and lore and kind of expect players to believe in them.

But if you RP your char you don't have to believe in any gods. And if you would know OOC that devs said there definetly is gods, you char does not still have to believe in gods because he have no idea what "devs" has said. What devs say is OOC information. Your char does not know what devs say.

[moilami]

Harid wrote...

moilami wrote...

Harid wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...

October Sixth wrote...

Playing religious can be a lot of fun. I plan to make my first Hawke a believer.

My first HN Warden was a devout Andrestean. I assume my mage Hawke will be a bit of a skeptic, but the developers have said that atheism doesn't really fit the setting.

Que?  Morrigan seemed pretty close to an atheist to me?

No, Morri wanted to breed with the warden to make some kind of old god spawn. I don't remember it exactly but it appeared she clearly believed on some gods.


Edit: Or am I wrong in this?

Never seemed to me she called an Old God an "Old God" out of reverence, but more so out of. . .that being what they were called.  And she doesn't always refer to it as an old god, she calls it a creature, several times I believe.

Oh, I will have to pay more attention on what she say on my next playthrough.

[PsychoBlonde]

Ms. Lovey Dovey wrote...

Eclipse_9990 wrote...

"Does the Maker does exist?"... Wow.. Okay.. *leaves*

Hey don't judge. Grammer and Spelling doesn't have a correlation with intelligence, just so you know!  

Yeah, but in my experience they usually have a strong correlation with having something interesting to say.  But everyone typo's occasionally.

[moilami]

moilami wrote...

pallascedar wrote...

Shepard Lives wrote...

bobobo878 wrote...

Riloux wrote...

I think in this game, he does. The Urn of Sacred Ashes cured the Arl, did it not?

There could be another explanation, for all we know the Ashes' powers could be due to Tevinter Blood Magic.

Oghren says that the mountain contains an absurdly large and pure lyrium vein.

Also, regardless of the maker or not, Andraste was an exceptionally powerful woman, maybe she was blessed by some sort of powerful spirit and her ashes are as they are.

Proof? Someone said so?

I remember there were many who did not believe on ashes legend. For me those ashes are however the best proof that there could be gods. But the miracleous healing by ashes is not a proof. The dude who was healed could had faked the sickness. This is of course paranoid theory. It is just something to consider for very sceptical.

The ashes had some powers as it was possible to learn Reaver spec with them with dragon blood. Note there was that *blood* ingredient. Blood seems to hold very special powers in DA. For example darkspawn blood and arch demon blood (?) was needed in the Joining to get Warden spec. It seems the taint is some kind of disease which spreads in blood contact. Archdemon blood could make the taint bearable since it is supposedly much more powerful blood. The warden would get Darkspawn abilities (able to sense darkspawn) without becoming one himself. The dragon blood overrided bad effects and also gave great potency (by Morrigan) and great appetite (by Alistair).

But what about the ashes? Did they heal or not? I believed they healed, but it doesn't mean there is anything divine in them. Archdemon blood have effects, darkspawn blood have effects, and in one DLC there was yet another blood which gave talents not to mention how blood mages can play with blood. The ashes possibly contained stracers of blood and had blood powers but no god is needed for it. The mage doing research with blood stuff in the DLC said he could possibly do even more powerful things if given free hands to experiment. Maybe Andraste people played with the ashes and different bloods and herbs managed to do create extraordinary healing powers on the final ashes.

I am yet to do my PC mage playthrough, so thank you very much of this thread. After I have defined what kind of mage I do. Maybe a Mage Liberation Front mage believing mages should be able to research fade freely to get greater knowledge of the universum (and of course live freely), and who suspects Chantry is nothing but a power hungry organization wanting to restrict mages and especially restrict mages to gain knowledge of fade and "black city".

You see, mages should not be put in fade unprepared or killed if they refuse to go. It is just sick practise. One such test proves nothing. If you succeed in test, it doesn't mean you would never be corrupted. Alternatively if you don't get corrupted it doesn't mean you would never become corrupted. The fade mage circle test is completely unacceptable. There are already many mages against the current absurd slaughter. The chantry is just madness and the faster it is destroyed the better. I don't care if people believe in Andraste, but the organisation who is controlling people in her name is to be stormed.

Mages are very dangerous. But are we blaming and punishing people because of their inherit abilities and never giving them even a fair chance to live if we just accept the current world order? Yes we are. And an end must come to it! A free mage, althought potentially dangerous, is not a god and can be dealt with and punished according to crimes he has actually done. So, to the arms, storm the chantry!

Edit: This needs a better ending.

Freedom is not a crime!

Modifié par moilami, 22 janvier 2011 - 03:51 .

[moilami]

PsychoBlonde wrote...

Ms. Lovey Dovey wrote...

Eclipse_9990 wrote...

"Does the Maker does exist?"... Wow.. Okay.. *leaves*

Hey don't judge. Grammer and Spelling doesn't have a correlation with intelligence, just so you know!  

Yeah, but in my experience they usually have a strong correlation with having something interesting to say.  But everyone typo's occasionally.

I haven't understood why I should learn English. To be able to better argue in Internet? Lol. No.


Edit: Besides I would be OP with perfect grammar and excellent vocabulatory.

Modifié par moilami, 22 janvier 2011 - 03:26 .

[Eveangaline]

Well it's a fictional world, so anything could exist. The maker, the elven gods, the old gods, shiney sparkly unicorns.

Except Griffons.

Modifié par Eveangaline, 22 janvier 2011 - 03:29 .

[moilami]

Eveangaline wrote...

Well it's a fictional world, so anything could exist. The maker, the elven gods, the old gods, shiney sparkly unicorns.

Except Griffons.

Yeah, but does the maker exist? Has devs said the maker exist?

[moilami]

Devs should actually not tell does the maker exist because it is OOC information none actually need for roleplaying.

[DJBare]

Common User Name wrote...
To the original question. I believe the maker does exist. Just not in the form the chantry believes him to be. If I had to say it bluntly, I'd say he is nothing more than a fade spirit.

And I'd say it's nothing more than folk lore that got out of hand, religious cults are among the best examples of how a maker can be created from nothing, all it takes is a charismatic character to tell a story, people who need something to believe in will listen to his/her words and take them on faith, when there is no explanation for existence create one.