215 réponses à ce sujet

[moilami]

My mom is the maker!

[Eternal Phoenix]

Common User Name wrote...
To bring in a little perspective to the people stuck on 'the ashes healed Arl Eamon'. Never was stated, that the ashes did heal Arl Eamon. It's easy to assume, given that he got up right after giving it to him. However this alone doesn't prove that it was in fact the ashes.

Erm, I think it does and everyone is in agreement over that. Even the journal entries say that the ashes healed him. Plus it's more logical to assume to ashes did heal him since we saw the recovery straight away. What you said is supported by no evidence from any journal entries or dialogues from the game. If the developers came to shed some light on this, even they would say the ashes did indeed heal him but as I said before about this argument - they will probably always keep The Maker as a mystery or where we get to decide as our character in the last instalment (or something) if The Maker exists.

[moilami]

Can someone tell why we should worship the maker or any god for that matter? Is it not better to focus on people around you than think there is some kind of "god" who is superior to anything?


Edit: My toons never care a bit if there was million confirmed gods. What's the point?

Modifié par moilami, 22 janvier 2011 - 03:13 .

[Shepard Lives]

moilami wrote...

Can someone tell why we should worship the maker or any god for that matter? Is it not better to focus on people around you than think there is some kind of "god" who is superior to anything?

Yeah... let's not open this can of worms.

[moilami]

Shepard Lives wrote...

moilami wrote...

Can someone tell why we should worship the maker or any god for that matter? Is it not better to focus on people around you than think there is some kind of "god" who is superior to anything?

Yeah... let's not open this can of worms.

What can of worms? I am not referring to real world. There are many gods in AO. Not only the maker.

So what's the point in worshipping any god in DA? And does it matter does it exist or not?

[Eternal Phoenix]

As I said, it's the player's choice.

[moilami]

Elton John is dead wrote...

As I said, it's the player's choice.

I can think it only matters when the gods begin to interfere on things and shape the world. So far I haven't seen that happening in any settings. Morri's old god, whatever it is, could be different, so there could be some point to care if it exist and what happens if Morri manages to summon it.

[Dhiro]

moilami wrote...

Shepard Lives wrote...

moilami wrote...

Can someone tell why we should worship the maker or any god for that matter? Is it not better to focus on people around you than think there is some kind of "god" who is superior to anything?

Yeah... let's not open this can of worms.

What can of worms? I am not referring to real world. There are many gods in AO. Not only the maker.

So what's the point in worshipping any god in DA? And does it matter does it exist or not?

Many reasons. Because they believe in the Chant, because they want to be saved, because they feel in their hearts that it's right, because they want, etc, etc.  The Elven Religion is pratically lost, only the Dalish really know something about them, and it's still so little. A City Elf can live all his life without hearing of any Elven god. And the Stone is a VIP, dwarf-only entity.

And then there are the Old Gods, but I also believe that most about the religion is lost. Also, the Old God = Archdemon thing. Mass murdering usually don't help you to get followers.

I don't see many options beside the Maker, if one decides he wants to have a religion, that's it.

Modifié par Dhiro, 22 janvier 2011 - 03:22 .

[Eudaemonium]

Its really down to a question of faith, which is what David Gaider has commented on a few times. Actually having gods intervening in the world (ala D&D) doesn't leave much room for faith, and instead simply boils down to paying reverence to X powerful individual. Characters (including the PC) can have faith for innumerable reasons, several of which Dhiro outlined above. There's also the fairly typical reason that characters believe because they were raised to believe and not many alternatives were really presented to them (for various social conditions). The actual religiosity of the characters varies, of course - Leliana is more religious than Alistair, for example, though both believe in the Maker. There is a fairly wide breadth of different believers in DAO.

[moilami]

Dhiro wrote...

moilami wrote...

Shepard Lives wrote...

moilami wrote...

Can someone tell why we should worship the maker or any god for that matter? Is it not better to focus on people around you than think there is some kind of "god" who is superior to anything?

Yeah... let's not open this can of worms.

What can of worms? I am not referring to real world. There are many gods in AO. Not only the maker.

So what's the point in worshipping any god in DA? And does it matter does it exist or not?

Many reasons. Because they believe in the Chant, because they want to be saved, because they feel in their hearts that it's right, because they want, etc, etc.  The Elven Religion is pratically lost, only the Dalish really know something about them, and it's still so little. A City Elf can live all his life without hearing of any Elven god. And the Stone is a VIP, dwarf-only entity.

And then there are the Old Gods, but I also believe that most about the religion is lost. Also, the Old God = Archdemon thing. Mass murdering usually don't help you to get followers.

I don't see many options beside the Maker, if one decides he wants to have a religion, that's it.

So the belief goes that maker will safe them if everyone believe in him? But save from what? How would the world be different if Maker saved the people? This I deffo want to know now for RPs sake. This maker begins to sound very dangerous. I am not convinced at all my toon would want to live in a world "saved" by the maker xD

[Huntress]

pallascedar wrote...

Shepard Lives wrote...

bobobo878 wrote...

Riloux wrote...

I think in this game, he does. The Urn of Sacred Ashes cured the Arl, did it not?

There could be another explanation, for all we know the Ashes' powers could be due to Tevinter Blood Magic.

Oghren says that the mountain contains an absurdly large and pure lyrium vein.

Also, regardless of the maker or not, Andraste was an exceptionally powerful woman, maybe she was blessed by some sort of powerful spirit and her ashes are as they are.

By Blessed you mean as a Mage?

I think Adralla and Andrastes were mages, very powerful ones too but, the chantry  howerver will never ever allow that info come out in the open.

[Dhiro]

moilami wrote...

Dhiro wrote...

moilami wrote...

Shepard Lives wrote...

moilami wrote...

Can someone tell why we should worship the maker or any god for that matter? Is it not better to focus on people around you than think there is some kind of "god" who is superior to anything?

Yeah... let's not open this can of worms.

What can of worms? I am not referring to real world. There are many gods in AO. Not only the maker.

So what's the point in worshipping any god in DA? And does it matter does it exist or not?

Many reasons. Because they believe in the Chant, because they want to be saved, because they feel in their hearts that it's right, because they want, etc, etc.  The Elven Religion is pratically lost, only the Dalish really know something about them, and it's still so little. A City Elf can live all his life without hearing of any Elven god. And the Stone is a VIP, dwarf-only entity.

And then there are the Old Gods, but I also believe that most about the religion is lost. Also, the Old God = Archdemon thing. Mass murdering usually don't help you to get followers.

I don't see many options beside the Maker, if one decides he wants to have a religion, that's it.

So the belief goes that maker will safe them if everyone believe in him? But save from what? How would the world be different if Maker saved the people? This I deffo want to know now for RPs sake. This maker begins to sound very dangerous. I am not convinced at all my toon would want to live in a world "saved" by the maker xD

Who knows? Maybe everyone in the world will hold hands and sing. The point is that something really, really good would happen if every single soul believe in the Maker, or so says the Chant.

Except maybe for the dwarves.

[moilami]

Dhiro wrote...

moilami wrote...

Dhiro wrote...

moilami wrote...

Shepard Lives wrote...

moilami wrote...

Can someone tell why we should worship the maker or any god for that matter? Is it not better to focus on people around you than think there is some kind of "god" who is superior to anything?

Yeah... let's not open this can of worms.

What can of worms? I am not referring to real world. There are many gods in AO. Not only the maker.

So what's the point in worshipping any god in DA? And does it matter does it exist or not?

Many reasons. Because they believe in the Chant, because they want to be saved, because they feel in their hearts that it's right, because they want, etc, etc.  The Elven Religion is pratically lost, only the Dalish really know something about them, and it's still so little. A City Elf can live all his life without hearing of any Elven god. And the Stone is a VIP, dwarf-only entity.

And then there are the Old Gods, but I also believe that most about the religion is lost. Also, the Old God = Archdemon thing. Mass murdering usually don't help you to get followers.

I don't see many options beside the Maker, if one decides he wants to have a religion, that's it.

So the belief goes that maker will safe them if everyone believe in him? But save from what? How would the world be different if Maker saved the people? This I deffo want to know now for RPs sake. This maker begins to sound very dangerous. I am not convinced at all my toon would want to live in a world "saved" by the maker xD

Who knows? Maybe everyone in the world will hold hands and sing. The point is that something really, really good would happen if every single soul believe in the Maker, or so says the Chant.

Except maybe for the dwarves.

Eeew, sounds scary enough! Seriously, people holding each other from hand and singing? That would require a megachange in the nature of people. I can imagine those lobotomized mages could only do that when ordered.

If maker saved the world, would everything what sucked before be like great fun to do? Hard and dirty labour would be like having sex? Or would maker answer to all demands and just summon any goods as much as people want? Including willing women for men for certain needs and willing men for women for certain needs (like holding your hand and listening your troubles while keeping caring face)? Or would people change to do that on your whim? Or would you get rid of that kind of needs? Or would people lose desire to get any goods and pleasures?


Edit: I can see Maker only as a scammer. And as a very bad scammer. Nigerian "here is big money transaction to do" are genius scams when compared to Maker scam.

Modifié par moilami, 22 janvier 2011 - 03:51 .

[moilami]

Eudaemonium wrote...

Its really down to a question of faith, which is what David Gaider has commented on a few times. Actually having gods intervening in the world (ala D&D) doesn't leave much room for faith, and instead simply boils down to paying reverence to X powerful individual. Characters (including the PC) can have faith for innumerable reasons, several of which Dhiro outlined above. There's also the fairly typical reason that characters believe because they were raised to believe and not many alternatives were really presented to them (for various social conditions). The actual religiosity of the characters varies, of course - Leliana is more religious than Alistair, for example, though both believe in the Maker. There is a fairly wide breadth of different believers in DAO.

But in D&D certain classes gets benefits directly from gods. Paladins for example. There is no question "are there gods" in D&D world. Paladins and clerics get direct benefits. But still my toons are uninterested of gods in D&D because they haven't seen gods actually doing anything. It is always people who do. Followers of this or that, or some group who does not worship any god.


Edit: In theory if everyone would believe in Maker and then do what the chantry stuff says, a big change would indeed happen. Everyone would be Chantry-Happy. But even by then, the maker is not needed for it because it is up to the people to become Chantry-Happy.

Modifié par moilami, 22 janvier 2011 - 04:09 .

[Huntress]

moilami wrote...

Eudaemonium wrote...

Its really down to a question of faith, which is what David Gaider has commented on a few times. Actually having gods intervening in the world (ala D&D) doesn't leave much room for faith, and instead simply boils down to paying reverence to X powerful individual. Characters (including the PC) can have faith for innumerable reasons, several of which Dhiro outlined above. There's also the fairly typical reason that characters believe because they were raised to believe and not many alternatives were really presented to them (for various social conditions). The actual religiosity of the characters varies, of course - Leliana is more religious than Alistair, for example, though both believe in the Maker. There is a fairly wide breadth of different believers in DAO.

But in D&D certain classes gets benefits directly from gods. Paladins for example. There is no question "are there gods" in D&D world. Paladins and clerics get direct benefits. But still my toons are uninterested of gods in D&D because they haven't seen gods actually doing anything. It is always people who do. Followers of this or that, or some group who does not worship any god.


Edit: In theory if everyone would believe in Maker and then do what the chantry stuff says, a big change would indeed happen. Everyone would be Chantry-Happy. But even by then, the maker is not needed for it because it is up to the people to become Chantry-Happy.

By people you mean humans, I dought the dwarves want to put cement to their god, and Dalish elves will probably bend the knee to be executed because they will nOT ever will follow a god who has allow so many been murdered on His name, many dalish will believe they will only be allow to live for only one purpuse, to server as a second class being.

Now I dought very much the mages will the thrill with the idea of been held in a tower because of some believes.

As you can see there is many impossible things, I can asure you the Dalish/dwarves/quan will NOT agree to such a thing.

[moilami]

Huntress wrote...

moilami wrote...

Eudaemonium wrote...

Its really down to a question of faith, which is what David Gaider has commented on a few times. Actually having gods intervening in the world (ala D&D) doesn't leave much room for faith, and instead simply boils down to paying reverence to X powerful individual. Characters (including the PC) can have faith for innumerable reasons, several of which Dhiro outlined above. There's also the fairly typical reason that characters believe because they were raised to believe and not many alternatives were really presented to them (for various social conditions). The actual religiosity of the characters varies, of course - Leliana is more religious than Alistair, for example, though both believe in the Maker. There is a fairly wide breadth of different believers in DAO.

But in D&D certain classes gets benefits directly from gods. Paladins for example. There is no question "are there gods" in D&D world. Paladins and clerics get direct benefits. But still my toons are uninterested of gods in D&D because they haven't seen gods actually doing anything. It is always people who do. Followers of this or that, or some group who does not worship any god.


Edit: In theory if everyone would believe in Maker and then do what the chantry stuff says, a big change would indeed happen. Everyone would be Chantry-Happy. But even by then, the maker is not needed for it because it is up to the people to become Chantry-Happy.

By people you mean humans, I dought the dwarves want to put cement to their god, and Dalish elves will probably bend the knee to be executed because they will nOT ever will follow a god who has allow so many been murdered on His name, many dalish will believe they will only be allow to live for only one purpuse, to server as a second class being.

Now I dought very much the mages will the thrill with the idea of been held in a tower because of some believes.

As you can see there is many impossible things, I can asure you the Dalish/dwarves/quan will NOT agree to such a thing.

I actually meant by "people" every race. I just ignored the fact that only in Utopy everyone would become Chantry-Happy. I ignored it because else someone could had begun to argue "it is possible" that everyone would become Chantry-Happy and therefore it is worth to pursuit.

I myself hate people who try to limit what kind of happy life people want to live or say this is the only Right Happy-Life. But I am fine if people want to be Chantry-Happy. It is just great! I am fine also if someone wants to be Farmer-Happy. Or Fisher-Happy. Or Bureaucrat-Happy. Or Artist-Happy. Or Ancestor-Happy. Or Elven Clan-Happy. People need choise in what kind of Happy-Life they want to live because in practise not everyone can become Chantry-Happy, and if they are not allowed to live happy life they would prefer to live, they will certainly be unhappy.

So instead of forcing people to become Chantry-Happy or ignoring them or even moronicly fightning against them and trying to ruin their happiness if they don't want to become Chantry-Happy it is better to let people become Happy in their own way and support them in that. These Maker things are very dangerous because they are taking many ways to be Happy away by telling lies how the world would be better afterwards, not to forget how much more impossible it is to reach their Utopia of limited ways to Happiness.

[Eveangaline]

The maker is no more likely to exist than any of the elven gods, or the tevinter gods, or any of the other religions in Thedas.





So my theory is......the real God of Thedas is a giant nug.

[moilami]

Eveangaline wrote...

The maker is no more likely to exist than any of the elven gods, or the tevinter gods, or any of the other religions in Thedas.


So my theory is......the real God of Thedas is a giant nug.

My toons don't see the point in looking for hard/impossible to reach gods* when there are much more interesting and reachable things to look for. Like females Better to open eyes for the real world My toons also would rather serve some nice female close by than some unreachable god who by definition doesn't even need to be served.



* Or moon from the sky

Modifié par moilami, 22 janvier 2011 - 06:19 .

[PureGold_Au]

Personally i don't think the maker exists. But thats's just the point isn't it. You're supose to shove your personal opinions into it, which actualy makes you connect even more with your character. That's why this isn't exactly a great subject for debate and why we will never really find out what's true, making it sort of an homage to the real world(in how both sides are so unrelenting). All this can ever turn into is a flame war with certain connections to the debate between atheists, agnostics and the christian church.. with some believers of a warrior buddist mix piping in. I think this is really great writing by.. the writers but this can lead no where.



But one thing i do believe is that for story purposes we will have to eventualy access the "Golden City". What do you guys think?

[Huntress]

Well if you talk to Justice it will tell you that something is out there, he doesn't know because he lives in another real.

Maybe the fade is divided by realms, who knows, Demons exists, I belive they are created by something bigger Darker we haven't seen or hear about yet, and if that is the case then something very good and pure must exist.

Is call Balance*

[Ryngard]

I am leaning toward yes. Keep in mind that I am an Atheist in real life, but I believe that in Thedas there are Gods and other powers, the Chantry's "Maker" being one of them. Some sort of otherworldly, powerful, omnipotent being. There is evidence that the Golden (Black) City exists, etc. I'm down with it. =)



So I have two canonical plays, one that romances Morrigan, one Leliana. I usually match my believe to them, though never to each extreme. My Morrigan playthrough I am an Atheist and I say as much but politely and never rudely. In my Leliana playthrough I am more religious but never a Zealot.

[RolandX9]

Are you all kidding? Thedas is too complex for any one Maker to have created. Clearly, the dev team members are the elven Creators. Chris Priestly is Fen'Harel.  

[s0meguy6665]

The Maker doesn't exist. According to the chantry, he's all-powerful, but they apparently unknowingly included stuff in their doctrine that make him look stupid. There probably is a higher power in the DA universe though, judging from the fact that we know that the Black City exists and what happened to the Old Gods, and other stuff.

I think the only reasonable explanation is that there's a higher power, but he doesn't really care about his universe and just uses it as his playground, that is the only way to account for both the supernatural stuff and all the other things in the world that are very badly designed for an all-powerful being that cares for his creations.

By the way, the ashes healing Eamon doesn't mean anything regarding this, there are at least 2 other reasonable explanations: 1) Andraste was a powerful mage or 2) (oghren says this) the ashes have been exposed to a huge lyrium vein running through the mountain for so long

Modifié par s0meguy6665, 23 janvier 2011 - 05:13 .

[Eternal Phoenix]

Yet there wasn't a lyrium vein, we saw nothing and Oghren is a drunk. If you believe him then we can say that the doom bringer was right to because they're both as crazy as each other.

[Haristo]

My opinion is considering that the Archdemon equal old Tevinter gods banned by the Maker, He does exist... but not like the Chantry think about it, maybe more like Lelianna see it. Because a God who allow lesbian couples is an Awesome god.



But as a Dalish origin gamer I do everything never talk about the ''Maker''. Maybe my Hawke will be kind of different.