215 réponses à ce sujet

[Sphynx118]

DJBare wrote...

Common User Name wrote...
To the original question. I believe the maker does exist. Just not in the form the chantry believes him to be. If I had to say it bluntly, I'd say he is nothing more than a fade spirit.

And I'd say it's nothing more than folk lore that got out of hand, religious cults are among the best examples of how a maker can be created from nothing, all it takes is a charismatic character to tell a story, people who need something to believe in will listen to his/her words and take them on faith, when there is no explanation for existence create one.

 I cant seem to stop reading all your posts with the voice of Sean connery:lol:

[s0meguy6665]

Elton John is dead wrote...

Yet there wasn't a lyrium vein, we saw nothing and Oghren is a drunk. If you believe him then we can say that the doom bringer was right to because they're both as crazy as each other.

You didn't see a lyrium vein because IT'S IN THE MOUNTAIN. sigh

[Eternal Phoenix]

No one but a DRUNK MENTIONS IT. *Sigh*

Modifié par Elton John is dead, 23 janvier 2011 - 09:17 .

[s0meguy6665]

Elton John is dead wrote...

No one but a DRUNK MENTIONS IT. *Sigh*

you're seriously tempting me to use the r word.
look up the term "ad hominem"

Modifié par s0meguy6665, 23 janvier 2011 - 09:23 .

[Aermas]

*steps on soapbox

Lyrium deposits within the Frostback Mountains would have the same "alleged" effect as the lyrium in the cave. Yes there may be lyrium, but lyruim needs to be worked & enchanted to have any magical effect. Since no random magical lyrium based magic happens within the Frostbacks, one cannot assume that the lyruim within the cave holding Andraste's ashes would have any effects either.

*steps off soapbox

Modifié par Aermas, 23 janvier 2011 - 10:50 .

[PinkShoes]

Of course the Maker is real. Its David Gaider.
David Gaider likes to make us feel pain and so does the Maker! In DA2 we find out that the Maker lives on his followers tears.

[Eternal Phoenix]

s0meguy6665 wrote...

Elton John is dead wrote...

No one but a DRUNK MENTIONS IT. *Sigh*

you're seriously tempting me to use the r word.
look up the term "ad hominem"

Use whatever words and terms you like. Only the drunk mentions it. Morrigan doesn't and she's a skeptic and mage who would take any chance to disprove The Maker.

Aermas wrote...

*steps on soapbox

Lyrium deposits within the Frostback Mountains would have the same "alleged" effect as the lyrium in the cave. Yes there may be lyrium, but lyruim needs to be worked & enchanted to have any magical effect. Since no random magical lyrium based magic happens within the Frostbacks, one cannot assume that the lyruim within the cave holding Andraste's ashes would have any effects either.

*steps off soapbox

And this.

Modifié par Elton John is dead, 23 janvier 2011 - 11:55 .

[AlexXIV]

Elton John is dead wrote...

s0meguy6665 wrote...

Elton John is dead wrote...

No one but a DRUNK MENTIONS IT. *Sigh*

you're seriously tempting me to use the r word.
look up the term "ad hominem"

Use whatever words and terms you like. Only the drunk mentions it. Morrigan doesn't and she's a skeptic and mage who would take any chance to disprove The Maker.

And where is the proof that it were really Andraste's ashes? Or that it was because of some 'holyness' that they had healing powers? You can heal with 'normal' magic aswell and don't have to believe in the Maker or anything actually. Of course only the ashes seem to be able to cure the arl, but that only means it is exceptionally powerful magic involved. Which could be because of some connection to the Maker, OR something else.

[moilami]

PureGold_Au wrote...

Personally i don't think the maker exists. But thats's just the point isn't it. You're supose to shove your personal opinions into it, which actualy makes you connect even more with your character. That's why this isn't exactly a great subject for debate and why we will never really find out what's true, making it sort of an homage to the real world(in how both sides are so unrelenting). All this can ever turn into is a flame war with certain connections to the debate between atheists, agnostics and the christian church.. with some believers of a warrior buddist mix piping in. I think this is really great writing by.. the writers but this can lead no where.

But one thing i do believe is that for story purposes we will have to eventualy access the "Golden City". What do you guys think?

Dragon Age is roleplaying game. It means you can roleplay yourself in it, but there is nothing "supposing" you play yourself. By definition in roleplaying games you take a role of some other than you, who looks different and thinks differently.

Also there has been already good discussion in this thread, so if those people sensitive to things discussed in this thread starts barking it doesn't make this thread any worse. It is the people, not the thread. If you don't like it, don't read it.

[Eternal Phoenix]

AlexXIV wrote...

Elton John is dead wrote...

s0meguy6665 wrote...

Elton John is dead wrote...

No one but a DRUNK MENTIONS IT. *Sigh*

you're seriously tempting me to use the r word.
look up the term "ad hominem"

Use whatever words and terms you like. Only the drunk mentions it. Morrigan doesn't and she's a skeptic and mage who would take any chance to disprove The Maker.

And where is the proof that it were really Andraste's ashes? Or that it was because of some 'holyness' that they had healing powers? You can heal with 'normal' magic aswell and don't have to believe in the Maker or anything actually. Of course only the ashes seem to be able to cure the arl, but that only means it is exceptionally powerful magic involved. Which could be because of some connection to the Maker, OR something else.

They had already used magic and it didn't work. The Guardian there also mentions it's Andraste's ashes and with the lyrium argument destroyed, you've got nothing against him.

[moilami]

Elton John is dead wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...

Elton John is dead wrote...

s0meguy6665 wrote...

Elton John is dead wrote...

No one but a DRUNK MENTIONS IT. *Sigh*

you're seriously tempting me to use the r word.
look up the term "ad hominem"

Use whatever words and terms you like. Only the drunk mentions it. Morrigan doesn't and she's a skeptic and mage who would take any chance to disprove The Maker.

And where is the proof that it were really Andraste's ashes? Or that it was because of some 'holyness' that they had healing powers? You can heal with 'normal' magic aswell and don't have to believe in the Maker or anything actually. Of course only the ashes seem to be able to cure the arl, but that only means it is exceptionally powerful magic involved. Which could be because of some connection to the Maker, OR something else.

They had already used magic and it didn't work. The Guardian there also mentions it's Andraste's ashes and with the lyrium argument destroyed, you've got nothing against him.

That argument about exceptionally powerful magic involved is a very good argument for as we understand magic the healing happened was magical. But what was the source of magic? That is the real question and would certainly interest many mages. And professionals want truth first of all.

By the way the question does Maker exist does not get answered by ashes mentioned. The Maker can be dead. Who knows. Maybe he have existed, maybe, just maybe. And what the Maker actually did? What proved he was god?

Modifié par moilami, 24 janvier 2011 - 12:29 .

[AlexXIV]

Elton John is dead wrote...
They had already used magic and it didn't work. The Guardian there also mentions it's Andraste's ashes and with the lyrium argument destroyed, you've got nothing against him.

I didn't have anything against him to begin with. I mean why would he lie? So I tend to believe him, but that isn't anywhere near a proof. It could be that the person who's ashes are in the tomb (maybe Andraste, maybe not) was possessed by some benevolent spirit like Wynne. And that it is partly due to the power of that spirit that the ashes have this power. Not saying it is so. I do believe it was Andraste. But people can believe that or not.

[Eternal Phoenix]

AlexXIV wrote...

Elton John is dead wrote...
They had already used magic and it didn't work. The Guardian there also mentions it's Andraste's ashes and with the lyrium argument destroyed, you've got nothing against him.

I didn't have anything against him to begin with. I mean why would he lie? So I tend to believe him, but that isn't anywhere near a proof. It could be that the person who's ashes are in the tomb (maybe Andraste, maybe not) was possessed by some benevolent spirit like Wynne. And that it is partly due to the power of that spirit that the ashes have this power. Not saying it is so. I do believe it was Andraste. But people can believe that or not.

Exactly, why would he lie saying Andraste was the Maker's chosen? How could he see into your past? As far as I know, magic in DA has some limits and no codex entries talk of mages seeing into a person's past.

[AlexXIV]

Elton John is dead wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...

Elton John is dead wrote...
They had already used magic and it didn't work. The Guardian there also mentions it's Andraste's ashes and with the lyrium argument destroyed, you've got nothing against him.

I didn't have anything against him to begin with. I mean why would he lie? So I tend to believe him, but that isn't anywhere near a proof. It could be that the person who's ashes are in the tomb (maybe Andraste, maybe not) was possessed by some benevolent spirit like Wynne. And that it is partly due to the power of that spirit that the ashes have this power. Not saying it is so. I do believe it was Andraste. But people can believe that or not.

Exactly, why would he lie saying Andraste was the Maker's chosen? How could he see into your past? As far as I know, magic in DA has some limits and no codex entries talk of mages seeing into a person's past.

For all we know the the Guardian could be a spirit like Justice. Who has a duty there and doesn't really know much beyond that. For example we couldn't ask him if the Maker exists and the Chantry is right about everything, but I guess if we could have asked him he wouldn't have given a straight answer. Simply because we are not supposed to *know*. We are supposed to believe or not.

In the Fade many things can be twisted or come across weird. Actually I don't even know why Andrastes ashes must be conserved and guarded. She was burned on a stack so someone just got to the place later, broom in the hand, and sweeped the whole place? Not to mention that the descendants of the original 'keepers' of andraste's ashes kinda turned into a bunch of lunatics. I wouldn't know why that was in the Maker's interest or plan or whatever.

Also, I have never been a big fan of Arl Eamon. If it wasn't a plot-relevant quest I'd have let him die. I'd just save Connor and his mother and be done with it. So the whole holyness concept of saving the Arl kinda escapes me. His brother could have done just the same thing.

Modifié par AlexXIV, 24 janvier 2011 - 06:46 .

[Melness]

Who has a duty there and doesn't really know much beyond that.

For all we know, Maric could have travelled in time and birthed Arl Eamon, explaining why he cared so much for Alistair - they were brothers.

For all we know, Sandal could be a lost paragon smith preserved by lyrium.

For all we know, the Qunari could be aliens.

For all we know, the King of Antiva could be Hello Kitty.

The Guardian is what he said he was and anything that changes it is either an ass pull or a retcon.

Modifié par Melness, 24 janvier 2011 - 06:58 .