10 réponses à ce sujet

[ryoldschool]

Kronner has posted here before that he believes that Shepard hits optimum ability vs enemy at about level 20 and then after that the enemy scales faster than Shepard improves.  From what I just experienced he is probably right.

I'm currently playing Vanguard on Insanity ( xbox ).  I took the claymore   ( I'm determined to use the reload trick ) and its been going pretty well.  The reload trick on xbox works pretty well when the target  does not move ( like Krograns ). 


I noticed a comparison that suprised me.  I did Mordin's loyality right after DCS and was at level 18.  With Inferno ammo on claymore it two-shots those krograns that you meet. ( and if it did not kill them outright the second shot knocked them well into health and they fell down on fire )  I had three shotgun upgrades.  I remember this because I charged those two you meet just after going down the stairs after you meet the "scout" krogran, and got both of them.

I just did Jack's loyality at level 28 and two shots with inferno will not kill a fully armored Krogran.  In fact, after the second shot they are standing there shooting you in the face.   I had five shotgun upgrades at the time ( 1 from LotSB delivery ).

I'm going with high weapon damage build
Armor pieces that give 16% weapon damage
Miranda with 15% squad weapon damage.
Passive has 9% weapon damage

Mordin Mission ( level 19 )
Damage = [400 ( 1.0 + 0.3 + 0.16 + 0.15 + 0.09 ) * ( 1.25 weapon factor ) + 400 * 0.60 ] * ( 2 distance factor )
                     [ 400 * 1.7 * 1.25 + 400 * 0.6 ] * 2 = [ 850 + 240 ] * 2 = 1090 * 2 = 2180

Jack Mission (level 28 ) 
Damage =  [400 ( 1.0 + 0.5 + 0.16 + 0.15 + 0.09 ) * ( 1.25 weapon factor ) + 400 * 0.60 ] * ( 2 distance factor )
                     [ 400 * 1.9 * 1.25 + 400 * 0.6 ] * 2 = [ 950 + 240 ] * 2 = 1190 * 2 = 2380

[Locutus_of_BORG]

I've finally got a fully developed profile (lvl 30) on hardcore mode and I still haven't sensed this type of a trend yet. Could this be mainly an Insanity thing?

[Ahglock]

Yeah it is mainly an insanity thing. Enemies scale on all difficulty levels but only on insanity are the defenses+health high enough to really notice vs fully upgraded weapons. The DLC has helped a bit now that the weapons can get 6 of 6 dmg upgrades, instead of 5 of 5. But that does not makes up the difference to get you anywhere near level 30.

[Kronner]

IMO this is why all classes hit the peak at level 20. Since then you get relatively weaker compared to your enemies. Really poor balancing on BioWare's part.

This is also why I prefer NG+ for gameplay reasons..you get stronger all the time.

[Bozorgmehr]

The OP is right; you do get weaker while leveling up though it depends on class.

Soldiers are at their peak @ level 6 - maxed ARush plus Mattock and GPS

Vanguards are at their peak level ~10(-15); Heavy Charge, Passive, (Inferno Ammo and bonus weapon)

Sentinels are at 90% @ level 10 - Assault Armor, Passive and 3 tech upgrades

Infiltrators are at their peak @ level 6 - max Cloak; Mantis can OSOK normal enemies, ammo powers and Widow only keep it so throughout the game.

CQC Infiltrators are at their peak when they acquire bonus weapon (@ level 10-15)

Adepts and Engineers are at their best level ~20 - bonus weapon and 4 powers maxed and upgraded.

Between level 20 and 30 no class really gets any better - with just one skill point per level and the most important powers already maxed out, things won't improve much. But enemies are getting stronger every level - they get more weapon upgrades, health and defenses. Pretty lame actually, the rpg system is supposed to develop your character and the most powerful abilities should be acquired last - would make NG+ more interesting than it is now IMHO.

[Ahglock]

Kronner wrote...

IMO this is why all classes hit the peak at level 20. Since then you get relatively weaker compared to your enemies. Really poor balancing on BioWare's part.
This is also why I prefer NG+ for gameplay reasons..you get stronger all the time.

You can spread out some of the upgrades so you get them later in the game if you want, but yeah it seems off that you feel weaker as you get stronger.  For some classes you max out 1-3 powers and the rest of your leveling is pointless except for research upgrades.  I kind of think powers should have had a dmg/duration inherintly tied to your level.  Not heavy warp does 200 dmg+upgrades but heavy warp does 10 dmg a level, or 100+5 a level or whatever so your powers always got more powerful.

[kstarler]

While I do agree with the premise of the thread, as I have experienced it myself, I do wonder if this is not intentional. After all, in a lot of other RPG's, by the time you get to the end, the main character is basically an unstoppable killing machine, provided you aren't intentionally (or unintentionally) handicapping yourself with bad gear, a bad build, or a bad party.

I personally tend to not finish certain RPG's because I get quite bored with the end game. I experienced this quite acutely in DA:O, where I have 4 games that are stopped at the Landsmeet, at which point I started over because my party wasn't challenged at all. I can also say the same thing about ME1, where I have at least 3 games that are stopped on Virmire because all I have to do is Sabotage/Lift the enemies, and then shoot them to death.

The above noted anecdotes lead me to believe that BioWare made higher leveled characters less effective intentionally, to keep players interested/challenged. Even if it wasn't intentional, I can't say for certain whether it would be better for BioWare to fix it or leave it as it is.

Modifié par kstarler, 21 janvier 2011 - 09:24 .

[Praetor Knight]

kstarler wrote...

The above noted anecdotes lead me to believe that BioWare made higher leveled characters less effective intentionally, to keep players interested/challenged. Even if it wasn't intentional, I can't say for certain whether it would be better for BioWare to fix it or leave it as it is.

I didn't know this type of enemy scaling existed.

I'd vote to leave it as is, it keeps me coming back for more ME2 action.

[Locutus_of_BORG]

Ahglock wrote...

Yeah it is mainly an insanity thing. Enemies scale on all difficulty levels but only on insanity are the defenses+health high enough to really notice vs fully upgraded weapons. The DLC has helped a bit now that the weapons can get 6 of 6 dmg upgrades, instead of 5 of 5. But that does not makes up the difference to get you anywhere near level 30.

If it's mainly an Insanity thing, maybe it was intentional? It's not like any of you elite guys seem to have any trouble with it anyway?

[ScorpSt]

Locutus_of_BORG wrote...

Ahglock wrote...

Yeah it is mainly an insanity thing. Enemies scale on all difficulty levels but only on insanity are the defenses+health high enough to really notice vs fully upgraded weapons. The DLC has helped a bit now that the weapons can get 6 of 6 dmg upgrades, instead of 5 of 5. But that does not makes up the difference to get you anywhere near level 30.

If it's mainly an Insanity thing, maybe it was intentional? It's not like any of you elite guys seem to have any trouble with it anyway?

Wasn't Insanity supposed to be for those who wanted a challenge? As long as this kind of scaling only happens on insanity and not on casual or normal, I think this is "Working as Intended".

[tangmcgame]

ME2 has this weird duality going on where it's both a cover-based shooter and rpg. In shooters (or most other games) the understanding is that the game starts easy and then gets harder as you go. In rpg's, though, you usually have an easier time later on as your resources, abilities, and stats are all very powerful. ME2 kinda does both and I applaud it, but I think it throws some people that you feel most powerful in the middle rather than at the beginning or end. I understand that completely, even if it doesn't bother me.