223 réponses à ce sujet

[Elvis_Mazur]

Thanks for the podcast. It is really good to hear more from the men behind the game.



Hope there will be more of it.

[Zubie]

Yeeeeahh, I want some more screentime for Ashley and Kaidan as much as the next person, but this isn't the way to go about it.

[Pedro Costa]

Bennyjammin79 wrote...

Gotta say it, gonna say it. I have never seen so many pig ignorant people in one place. Cancel ME3 Bioware, the people here don't deserve it.

Some concerns are genuine, as are some opinions.
Sure, most aren't worded properly, mine sometimes aren't, no doubt; but if we're to not criticize and try to at least get someone directly involved with the games to expose their opinions and how they got to those opinions so we can at least understand where they came from and instead praise everything they do as if it was the best thing ever since HK-47, then the company wouldn't be able to received the criticism that is used to improve future games, and ultimately, what helps their games' quality be as high as it is.

And please, cut back on the insults, you aren't really helping your case. <_<

[Jaron Oberyn]

Remus Artega wrote...

Lvl20DM wrote...

Babli wrote...

Is that the kind of person we want writing the plot of ME 3?

It's the only person that can write Mass Effect 3.

We are quoting the beginning of ME1, right?

I think that person responsible for LotSB is up to the task...

Oh yeah...  Lets just throw in some more automatic dialogue. Screw up the game even more.

-Polite

[Estelindis]

PoliteAssasin wrote...

Lets just throw in some more automatic dialogue. Screw up the game even more.

What's wrong with well-written automatic dialogue that doesn't contradict Shepard's core personality?

[Remus Artega]

PoliteAssasin wrote...

Remus Artega wrote...

Lvl20DM wrote...

Babli wrote...

Is that the kind of person we want writing the plot of ME 3?

It's the only person that can write Mass Effect 3.

We are quoting the beginning of ME1, right?

I think that person responsible for LotSB is up to the task...

Oh yeah...  Lets just throw in some more automatic dialogue. Screw up the game even more.

-Polite

I'd rather have automatic dialogue that has relevance to the main plot than one with choices that does not even touch it...

[CmdrShepardsGirl]

Melindil wrote...

Matt VT Schlo wrote...

Babyblue wrote...

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Quick on the draw with the antagonism there.

I apologise, it's just been incredibly frustrainting since ME2 for us Ash and Kaidan fans.

Its been a year.....time to let those wounds heal by getting over it

Oh, I'm sorry.  I didn't realize that wanting to see equal treatment of the fans and the characters was an issue.  You've shown me the light, dude.  Thanks. 

lol yeah I ceratinly 2nd that Melindil =) I loved the fact that my male Shepard could have his reunion with Liara in LOTSB (which I loved btw ) but we Kaidan/Ashley fans are just asking the same

[Gibb_Shepard]

CmdrShepardsGirl wrote...

Melindil wrote...

Matt VT Schlo wrote...

Babyblue wrote...

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Quick on the draw with the antagonism there.

I apologise, it's just been incredibly frustrainting since ME2 for us Ash and Kaidan fans.

Its been a year.....time to let those wounds heal by getting over it

Oh, I'm sorry.  I didn't realize that wanting to see equal treatment of the fans and the characters was an issue.  You've shown me the light, dude.  Thanks. 

lol yeah I ceratinly 2nd that Melindil =) I loved the fact that my male Shepard could have his reunion with Liara in LOTSB (which I loved btw ) but we Kaidan/Ashley fans are just asking the same

LOTSB wasn't MADE for Liara fans. It was primarily about the Shadow Broker, and how that will tie into ME3. The Liara reunion was simply a bonus to a DLC based on the Shadow Broker. I really can't see how Kaidan or Ash can play a role as big as Liara at the end of LOTSB, therefore i don't think they deserve their own DLC.

Asking for a DLC just to bed Ash is stupid, there needs to be a much bigger overarching plot going on, which i can't see Ash or Kaidan being involved in.

[Arijharn]

Contrary to popular belief, I don't think BioWare owes anything to the community in regards to directions they are planning for their characters. Sure, it may be nice to see them return, but that isn't the same as nigh demanding satisfaction.

I am slightly disappointed about the podcast though. Since this is the BioWare blog post and is presumably aimed at BioWare fans moreso than the regular joe browsing, then I would have thought some questions more directed towards ME3 would have been better... although sure I get that the game is almost a year away (probably an actual year since it'd no doubt be pushed back)

[Estelindis]

Regarding the comments on Redemption that I made on the previous page: upon closer inspection, it seems Mac only wrote the story, not the script. So it was unfair of me to criticise him for the dialogue.

I'll give the comics another chance if it becomes possible to buy Evolution electronically (which I understand will happen but I haven't seen it yet - although I just installed iTunes, which I have avoided like the plague for years and years, just to see if they had the new comic).

Modifié par Estelindis, 22 janvier 2011 - 02:33 .

[Estelindis]

That's right, he didn't. Says it right on the inside cover of my copy of Redemption. I'm kind of embarrassed for not seeing it before. But it's precisely because the few comics I have read have generally had lots of writer-involvement on all levels (such as Neil Gaiman, as you mention) that I expected the writer to pretty much write everything. But in this case, the job "writer" is simply subdivided. Goes to show what I know!

[Remus Artega]

but they still were approved for release...

[Someone With Mass]

You guys should definitely do more of these in the future.

[Phaedon]

Babli wrote...

Is that the kind of person we want writing the plot of ME 3?

Walters did everything right. Making the characters actually interesting and the story more cinematic . And still it's not enough.  The franchise's sales stats are higher than ever. And still it's not enough...

No, seriously, knock it off with dev hating, people.

Modifié par Phaedon, 22 janvier 2011 - 03:54 .

[Mims]

I wouldn't underestimate Dark Horse's executive power in the realm of comics. We have no idea what sort of editorial abilities bioware has once a story and artist has been approved. Comics and games are two completely different monsters. Mac says himself in the podcast that not everything he wanted to do was feasible in a comic.



I guarantee you when Niel Gaiman sits down to 'sell' a comic to a publisher, you're not going to get that sort of wording. Mass Effect comics are [mostly] going to sell to Mass Effect fans. That's a limited market, at least in terms of say, a Gaiman comic and a Mass Effect comic.



Plus, presumably we want bioware working on the game. The Dark Horse people are going to get better the more closely they work with the staff, and get a feel and a love for the world. Maybe I'm too optimistic. But I'd rather support something then destroy it before it has a chance to get good.

[Estelindis]

Mims wrote...

I'd rather support something then destroy it before it has a chance to get good.

Well, if those are the only two choices available, I agree.  But at this stage I'm not sure what "supporting" something really means.  A thousand identical "I like this comic" posts?  I'm sure that buoys the devs up far more than a thousand identical "I hate this comic" posts, but neither is really more interesting than the other.  What about constructive, reflective, balanced feedback that takes into account the positives and negatives of the comics as fans see things?  Is that not supportive enough?

Yet, at the same time, sometimes all one wants is to be told that one's work is good.  I've seen little threads saying "Thank you for X, Bioware" get dev posts where deeper critiques get no such response.  And the dev posts in the "Thank you" threads give this kind of absurdly-relieved-and-happy emotional vibe that tells me Bioware just don't get enough praise for their strong work on Mass Effect. 

I don't know.  Maybe many fans are just so involved emotionally in the world of ME and its story that our tendency to focus on every little detail can discourage devs.  ME in general is awesome.  Should we have this as a disclaimer on everything we write?  Is this how to offer support?

Sorry for the over-analysis; I've just been thinking about this a fair bit lately.

[Babli]

Phaedon wrote..
Walters did everything right. Making the characters actually interesting and the story more cinematic . And still it's not enough.  The franchise's sales stats are higher than ever. And still it's not enough...

I lol'd

AwesomeName wrote...
I agree that those who are hating should knock it off - but I wouldn't imply that everyone is doing it.

Its not about hating Mac Walters. It´s about really disliking the direction the story took with all these plot holes. But thats for another thread.

[SomeKindaEnigma]

so whats the subtle hint about the evolution/ME3 connection? Cant listen to it right now =/

[implodinggoat]

First of all thanks to Mac for taking the time to do this podcast.  As a fan of the series I appreciate it when the writers and developers take the time to throw the fans some tidbits even if its done with the intent of marketing which is understandable since a developer that didn't want to sell games wouldn't last very long.


RE: Mass Effect Genesis.

I just watched a vid of the Genesis Comic for the PS3 version and I actually thought it was pretty good.  Granted, it does skip over a lot of important stuff, doesn't do much to flesh out the characters and assumes many decisions by Shepard.  But; I think those limitations were neccessary.

The comic takes about 15 minutes to go through as it is and frankly making it long enough to fully convey the greatness of ME:1 isn't possible much less feasible.  PS3 players picked up ME2 to play a game not watch a story and making the comic longer would only make them wait longer to play the awesome game that they paid for.

My only real critique was the dialogue presented to the player before the Rachni decision doesn't properly convey the fact that killing the Rachni Queen entails damning her entire species to extinction and makes it seem like killing her is the obvious answer as opposed to the tricky moral decision it was in ME1.


RE:  Mac Walters Vs. Drew Karpashyn.

Like all writers Mac Walters has his strengths and weaknesses. 

When it comes to creating memorable characters with great dialogue (including my personal favorite character Wrex) and writing short self contained narratives like the loyalty missions in ME2 Mac is great.  This shows in ME2 as the game is filled with more memorable minor characters and side missions than ME1 and driven by generally superior dialogue than the dialogue in ME1. 

Don't get me wrong the dialogue in ME1 was great; but Karpashyn's focus on driving the central narrative and fleshing out his setting left some characters underdeveloped while in ME2 every character feels like they have their own unique personality even if they're only around for a single scene.  Consider Tali for example in ME1 she had a likeable; but undeveloped personality and had most of her dialogue dedicated to explaining Quarian culture, physiology, or politics.  In contrast Tali's personality in ME2 is much deeper and more intriguing and the plotline itself does a brilliant job of exploring Quarian culture and politics by having Shepard get involved in both.   

However; when it comes to writing an overarcing narrative which holds your interest and stays true to the established personalities and motivations of existing characters or organizations he needs some improvement.  Karpashyn's ME1 storyline kept your interest by giving the player an ancient mystery which they slowly unraveled through their own decisions.  In contrast the ME2 storyline feels disjointed and leaves the player with the feeling that they aren't in control of their own destiny and presents Shepard as a powerless puppet of the Illusive Man rather than the biggest badass in the galaxy.   Mass Effect 2 further exacerbates this feeling of powerlessness by presenting conflicts with allies from Mass Effect 1 (the council, the alliance, Ash, Kaiden and Liara) while giving the player no way to attempt to resolve these problems in order to reinforce Shepard's bizzare alliance with Cerberus. 

This brings us to Mass Effect 2's other major writing flaw namely the lack of fidelity to established characters and organizations.  Granted people do change over time; but as a writer if you're going to have a character or organization change it's personality or behavior you have to show that change taking place.  Yet the ME2 plot is driven by an organization which was presented as a completely amoral and xenophobic terrorist organization in ME1; but which has apparently transformed itself to such an extent between ME1 and ME2 that it manages to assemble an entire crew of sane decent people including Joker and Dr. Chakwas.  Worse still are the bizzarre and extremely unpleasant changes imposed on Liara and Shepard's characters.  While Liara's out of character obsession is the most glaring, drastic, and poorly explained transformation in ME2; Shepard's transformation from antiauthoritarian badass to timid Cerberus errand boy/girl does far more to weaken the central narrative.

In conclusion I think Mac is a very good writer; but he needs to show more discipline in his writing.  If Mac can take greater care to ensure that existing characters stay in character and craft a storyline which holds the player's interest and leaves them feeling as though Shepard is indeed in control of his own destiny then I think Mass Effect 3 could have the best storyline of any game I've ever played.  But; if Mac doesn't show a bit more discipline in his writing then I'm probably going to lament once again over how much greater Mass Effect 1's story was.