21 réponses à ce sujet

[shinobi602]

Just an honest question, I don't mean any offense, but does anyone else notice this? Devs regularly participate and interact with members in the Dragon Age forums, answer questions, explain things in the game, talk about Dragon Age 2 all the time.

The topics with the "Bioware" symbol under each are numerous compared to the Mass Effect forums. I just wish Bioware could talk to us about ME...especially ME3. Not a lot, just at least as much as the DA forums, right =/ ?

[Stanley Woo]

it's likely that the Mass Effect development team just doesn't have anything to talk about yet. Dragon Age II is nearly done and is the next major release, so of course we're going to talk about it more. Traditionally, we also have more Dragon age developers who enjoy participating in the forums more.

[Stanley Woo]

If I recall, ME2 had several developers participating frequently in discussions, including Patrick Weekes, Jesse Houston and Christina Norman.

[Stanley Woo]

And John Winski and Brenon Holmes also participated. I tend to post more regularly on the forums of whatever project I'm currently working on. So when i was on ME2, i posted in the Mass Effect forums. now that I'm Dragon Age II, I post more regularly on the Dragon Age forums. But as a Moderator, i still have to check in on some of the other forums from time to time.

[Stanley Woo]

shinobi602 wrote...

Stanley Woo wrote...

If I recall, ME2 had several developers participating frequently in discussions, including Patrick Weekes, Jesse Houston and Christina Norman.

So is it safe to say we'll be getting plenty of dev participation nearing ME3 release?

you can say what you like. i'm not promising anything. Developers are free to participate if they like, and free to stay away if they like. They do this on their own time, so if they have too much work, or prefer to do other things, that's their prerogative. No one can force devs to come in here and chat with y'all.

And based on some of the confrontational and abusive attitudes i've seen in this community from a very vocal and agitated few, I don't blame developers for preferring to stay away.

[Stanley Woo]

For the record: I am part of the QA team (not a lead in any way) on Dragon Age II. i have also been a community Moderator since 2002. Thank you.

[Stanley Woo]

Count Viceroy wrote...

Da_Lion_Man wrote...

I think the negativity is too strong for them and they stopped caring because some people are/were being unreasonable.
I don't blame them to be honest.

I think they need to grow a thicker skin then. Being what they are and what they do.

And on the other side of the coin, I think some folks need to learn how to speak to people online--not even customer-to-developer, but just plain, old-fashioned, well-reasonsed debate and discussion. Too many folks online believe that volume, frequency of posts, threats, and name-calling are valid substitute for courtesy and civility. If you wish to be treated fairly, then please do us the courtesy of treating us that way as well.

we have never stopped caring. The number of developers who participate in the community has always been small, particularly when their project has nothing to discuss yet.

[Stanley Woo]

Mr_Commander_Shepard wrote...

Piecake wrote...

This place is not represenative of their fanbase, and most especially the gaming fanbase at large

I don't understand what your saying. If your saying that these forums don't represent their fan base then you are awfully wrong.

Consider that, even if 1 million people buy our game, we usually only have a couple hundred who post regularly. Even if we are generous and call it 10,000 who post regularly, that's 1% of Mass Effect players who post. One percent of the fanbase does not necessarily accurately represent the entire fanbase. And while the folks on here are given an inordinate amount of attention, we can and do gather feedback in other ways and from different groups of players.

Please check your math, Mr_Commander_Shepard.

[Stanley Woo]

shinobi602 wrote...
Yes, of course. Agreed 100%. But Stanley, you can't group everyone on this forum into one and dish out the collective punishment, right? Why not ignore the rotten apples and have the courteous and civil discussions with the ones that do care and do want a real discourse?

We do. but sometimes, the "rotten apples" as you call them can and should be given the opportunity to change. We still want them as players, of course, and not all of them dig in their heels to the same extent. We've had several threads in the Dragon Age II forum from folks who were originally adamant that DA II looked terrible and they would never buy it, only to post later to say they were wrong and were now very much looking forward to the game.

If you never give people a chance to change, you are no better than the ones who post with a closed mind that can never be changes or assuaged. Always remember to be excellent to each other, shinobi602.

[Stanley Woo]

Mr_Commander_Shepard wrote...

I never did any math whatsoever. Does it really hurt to talk to the players who do take the time to come on to these forums to talk with you? We could just play the game then throw on the shelf and wait for ME3, but we obviously love the game more than that. We may be a small percent of everyone who actually plays but it doesn't mean we should get treated like this.

Treated like what, Mr_Commander_Shepard. i've already listed at least a half-dozen developers (and did I mention Casey Hudson, who also posted a few times?) who regularly engaged the community in discussion. These developers talked about features in the game pre-release, polled the fanbase here to see how they played the game and what they liked, and writers even came in to chat up the community and everyone seemed to enjoy that, even if those developers didn't always agree with the fans.

Just because we don't come at your beck and call does not mean we are not listening, or that we do not talk on the forums. we have our own schedules and post on the forums when we feel like it. We are not slaves to your whims, as you seem to be implying. that much is not going to change, anyway.

[Stanley Woo]

Whereto wrote...
where the game is beyond broken and the dev's can't spend a min of there day addressing you concerns on the salary you have payed them by buying their game,

Sorry to interrupt here, Whereto, but I wish people would quit using this as a justification for demanding things from developers, because it is not true. I, for example, am paid by my employer, BioWare. I am paid regardless of whether you buy the game or not. You, the person who buys the game, do not give money to me directly, nor are you automatically made a shareholder of the developer or the publisher. buying a product we offer for sale does not make you our boss. i just needed to clarify that. thank you.

[Stanley Woo]

Da_Lion_Man wrote...

I understand but still, I'm pretty sure you roll your eyes sometimes when reading some comments.

Sure I do. I'm human too, and so is every other developer who participates here. And as humans we tend to get emotional and have our breaking points, but we try not to let that show online. I don't always succeed.

[Stanley Woo]

didymos1120 wrote...

Mr_Commander_Shepard wrote...

A nice place to start would be by answering the questions of the fans instead of just two BioWare employees talking about how awesome BioWare products are.

Here, why don't you try this:

"Interesting podcast about the comic, but not really my cup of tea.  I think it'd be really cool if for the next one of these, you guys could do a Q&A kind of thing.  Maybe solicit submissions for questions from the forum, and then record the devs' answers.  Would something like that be possible?"

To which an interested dev might reply: "hey, that's a neat idea. we did do something like this way back in the day when we had more time on the forums and the community was much, much smaller. We participated in dev chats on IRC, and kept a thread open on a project or two to do precisely this. Every week, we'd gather answers from interested developers and post a digest of questions and answers to keep them apprised of game features, lore concerns, and new systems. it didn't last very long, but the community seemed to like it.

The difficulty with something like this is finding someone with the time and gumption to gatherall the questions, vet them with project leads, gather the information, and create the answer posts every week or month or whatever. That's time spent away from doing your everyday job and actually working on the game, which is sometimes difficul to justify."

How'd I do? Also, I'm an atheist, but I doubt that's a reasonable subject for discussion in this thread.

Modifié par Stanley Woo, 22 janvier 2011 - 12:54 .

[Stanley Woo]

Whereto wrote...
When you have bought their game for $100 and considering its a pc game there is no return.

Except for you getting the game you have paid for and probably several dozen hours of playtime. for Dragon Age: Origins, that playtime could measurein the hundreds of hours. You also have the BioWare community, where you can discuss the game, storyline, combat strategies, and technical issues with hundreds of fellow gamers. I would hardly call that "no return."

Also in a technicality if all of us didn't by your(bioware)product no one would get payed pasted what their contract stated, discounting any clauses etc. By us buying your game we keep you earning money, directly or not, all of us contribute to earnings. I know we don't own anything from bioware besides the copy of the game, but trying to keep us buying your games is the key of the game which you already know and the simple fact is that it is generally considered polite to fix the crap that was sold to us , but some dev's don't find this necessary. I would to point out the bad stuff isn't pointed at bioware, as they made a good game and support it, it is directed at certain developers

Believe me, Whereto, that despite my sarcasm and sometimes snarkiness on this topic, i do understand the emotional reasoning behind the "i paid for the game, i want to be heard" feeling, and in and of itself there is nothing wrong with that. After all, that's what this community was dersigned to do. The issue comes when people are unwilling or unable to accept any disagreement, or will only listen to the "right" answer. At that point, no matter how politely worded, it ceases to become a critique or a suggestion or a request, and it becomes a demand. i've often said that, if you can accept a dissenting answer from us, then you've probably got the right attitude, because there's no way we'll always agree on everything. If you cannot accept us disagreeing with you, then please don't be surprised or offended if we end up doing something you don't like.

Thank you for clarifying, though. I appreciate it.

[Stanley Woo]

Let's try and keep the insults and name-calling out of this discussion, please.Thank you.

[Stanley Woo]

PoliteAssasin wrote...
I know one of the Bioware writers apparently had a meltdown on the old forums.

i think we've all had a bit of a meltdown at one time or another, those of us who frequent the forums. i know I've had my share of ill-advised moments.

[Stanley Woo]

You are very welcome. I feel the benefits of having a civilized community full of great discussion and debate are worth the effort.

[Stanley Woo]

Every community has its good parts and bad parts. Some folks hate the character threads, some dislike seeing the same discussion appearing every other week. Some are okay with minor spoilers in General Discussion, some don't want any part of their game spoiled. And, of course, you have some people who can express themselves well, and some who struggle with it.

Since I can't get out to the various conventions (not in Marketing, not on a demo team), I talk with the fans here. And since my voice goes through my head whenever I'm typing, i type the way I speak. And since I type the way I speak, I communicate online the same way I would if I were speaking to people's face. That's the one thing I think a lot of people forget when communicating online--that at the other end of a "fanboy's" or "troll's" post is a flesh-and-blood person typing on a keyboard, just like we are.

so, in the interests of fostering a kinder, gentler internet, remember: Be excellent to each other. And thank you for being a part of our awesome community.

Modifié par Stanley Woo, 22 janvier 2011 - 11:19 .

[Preston Watamaniuk]

An interesting read folks. A lot of really good points regarding the relationship between the community and the developers. Time well spent in my opinion.

[Brian Mills]

didymos1120 wrote...

Fiery Phoenix wrote...

I like to think our posts are constantly being read by BioWare personnel, Iakus. They don't have to respond or engage us; just reading our comments will suffice.

Christina Norman recently posted on twitter that she spends a fair amount of time lurking on the forums.

She's not the only one who does so   I also lurk, both here and on a large number of other public forums.
edit: I suppose I should get my BioWare tag reset.. You can tell how often I post on these forums lately by my not having it yet, however   I do, however, read them daily.

Modifié par Brian Mills, 23 janvier 2011 - 05:02 .

[Stanley Woo]

JHU_P4NDA wrote...

I wish we could all send an apology to Bioware for all the trolls and whiners, and let them know that on the whole (HUGE whole), we are all huge fans of their work, and that they really are appreciated.

There really is no need. I would recommend that folks just try and be the best forumites they can be, and not try to bash those who disagree with you. instead, lead by example and don't respond to spem, troll- and flamebait, and engage folks in civil, non-hostile discussion and debate. Be positive role models here in the community. Always remember that agreeing to disagree is always an option, and be excellent to each other.

[Stanley Woo]

I think this discussion has gone from "why don't developers participate in this forum?" to "why does BioWare have to make games for everyone but me?" so I'm going to shut it down. i'd like to thank everyone for their participation in this thread, and I hope you have learned a little something about how game development works.



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