434 réponses à ce sujet

[Fredvdp]

You can see that Mister Woo has experience dealing with internet punks. The "salary" counter-argument was a fun read. Some people seem to think the devs should treat them like customers, forgetting that the devs usually post here in their spare time.

I think we should send BioWare a card or something.

Modifié par Fredvdp, 22 janvier 2011 - 09:36 .

[Ulzeraj]

Well played mr. Woo.

[HappyHappyJoyJoy]

Phaedon wrote...
It should be noted that while being called names or generally criticized can be dealt with easily, having your work of art is not. Have some of the people here never experienced that?

The trolls/whiners don't create, they destroy.  It's how they build up their self esteem/get their lulz/etc.


Any BW employee who posts here is immediately a "spokesperson for Bioware" which means everything they say would be analyzed, over-analyzed, tweeted, brought up for discussion six months later to try to find any possible contradictions between what they said and what another BW source said, etc.

[Lumikki]

Thank you Stanley Woo.

I hope you can try to tolerate us, while some of us try to behave better.

I was ones my self in company what had forum for feedback. It went fine for while, but sertain complain started to affect after few years to people working with those issues, because not all issues could been solved well. It's like too much negativeness will push any people away, it's just natural for any human. Meaning it did hurt little bit companies employers mental health. So, we short of used buffer between customers and employers who worked with the issues, like customer service people who where not resposible with actual problem. It was little better, but then it affected the customer service people, when they where forced to answer year after year why some problems can't be solved so easyly.

It's not easy to get complains and try to solve them so that as many as possible people would be happy. Because everyone is not gonna be happy. I don't think anyone here wanna hurt Biowares employers feelings and working enthusiasm in anyways, but it can happen just from the passion what we customers have for you games. I'm sorry if it happens. I also like to congratulate Biowares employers with good work they have done so far, many of you games has been pleasure to play with. I hope you continue making good games like you allways have.

So Thank you Bioware, see you around.

Modifié par Lumikki, 22 janvier 2011 - 09:51 .

[Phaedon]

I smell a great revolution in this thread.

[Tasha vas Nar Rayya]

Phaedon wrote...

I smell a great revolution in this thread.

I do too. That, or someone farted?  However, we should appreciate the input we do get from devs rather than think that devs don't give ME enough input.
So thankyou Stanley Woo for coping with the fans. I love discussing ME on here, there are some threads that are best to avoid, but the ones I go to a lot are great!

[Stanley Woo]

Every community has its good parts and bad parts. Some folks hate the character threads, some dislike seeing the same discussion appearing every other week. Some are okay with minor spoilers in General Discussion, some don't want any part of their game spoiled. And, of course, you have some people who can express themselves well, and some who struggle with it.

Since I can't get out to the various conventions (not in Marketing, not on a demo team), I talk with the fans here. And since my voice goes through my head whenever I'm typing, i type the way I speak. And since I type the way I speak, I communicate online the same way I would if I were speaking to people's face. That's the one thing I think a lot of people forget when communicating online--that at the other end of a "fanboy's" or "troll's" post is a flesh-and-blood person typing on a keyboard, just like we are.

so, in the interests of fostering a kinder, gentler internet, remember: Be excellent to each other. And thank you for being a part of our awesome community.

Modifié par Stanley Woo, 22 janvier 2011 - 11:19 .

[Ibanez2009]

Stanley Woo wrote...

Every community has its good parts and bad parts. Some folks hate the character threads, some dislike seeing the same discussion appearing every other week. Some are okay with minor spoilers in General Discussion, some don't want any part of their game spoiled. And, of course, you have some people who can express themselves well, and some who struggle with it.

Since I can't get out to the various conventions (not in Marketing, not on a demo team), I talk with the fans here. And since my voice goes through my head whenever I'm typing, i type the way I speak. And since I type the way I speak, I communicate online the same way I would if I were speaking to people's face. That's the one thing I think a lot of people forget when communicating online--that at the other end of a "fanboy's" or "troll's" post is a flesh-and-blood person typing on a keyboard, just like we are.

so, in the interests of fostering a kinder, gentler internet, remember: Be excellent to each other. And thank you for being a part of our awesome community.

You Sir are a winner!

Whiners, Haters, Internet Punks etc. are everywhere. They will NEVER disappear leaving us in peace. 

Back to topic: I can imagine that the devs are reading here all the time. But since they see so much trash, whining, and antagonism... there is no reason for them to react. I can understand them. Ladies and Gentlemen! The developers ARE JUST AS HUMAN AS WE ARE!!! NEVER forget that...

[Pwnisher]

Well the devs are usually hard at work making and improving games and they are way too busy to hop onto the forums to participate in the discussions we have here. Not only that, like one of the above posters said, ANYTHING that they say is overly-analyzed and is held as an absolute truth with little to no wiggle room given to the dev if they're wrong about anything.

P.S. Why do some people think that Stanley Woo is an evil man? I think that he has a great sense of humor . Besides, we all know that Chris Priestly is the evil one around here.

Modifié par Pwnisher, 23 janvier 2011 - 04:16 .

[Preston Watamaniuk]

An interesting read folks. A lot of really good points regarding the relationship between the community and the developers. Time well spent in my opinion.

[Terror_K]

I'm going to be frank here: it's hard for me to be positive about the devs when I feel that they're intentionally responsible for an overall direction the company seems to be taking with their games I'm not happy with. I understand that they are real people on the other end of things and that in the past they've done a lot of things that I've come to love a lot (or at least work for a company that has), but it's hard for me to be positive when I get the feeling that I'm watching my favourite software company and IP go down the toilet for the sake of the mainstream gamer of today.

I am a vocal complainer on these forums, and I'll fully admit that. I'd like to think it's mostly constructive criticism, but I will admit to going to extremes now and then. But I complain not because of hate, but because of love. Because I loved what Mass Effect once was and I'm concerned where it looks as if it's going. I'm sorry, but nothing is going to change the fact that Mass Effect 2 was a disappointment for me. Being polite and positive to the devs is the nice thing to do, but I personally don't feel it puts the right message across when one isn't happy with the way things are being done. As long as the criticism is constructive and not just baseless bashing, I don't see the harm.

It's not that I think the devs need insulting, it's just that I feel criticism is the only way to get across the notion of being displeased with a product and the only way things will be improved. When you feel somebody has made mistakes or could do things better, I feel they should be told. I personally think praise for things that should be criticised is counter-productive. And overall the thing that has disappointed me a great deal is that after ME1's release there was a lot more back-and-forth feedback about improving the next game than there seems to have been in ME2's wake.

I know this post is probably going to come across as somewhat negative, hateful and even maybe insulting to the devs, but I can't really think of a truly polite way to put it without being ironic. I don't want to criticise BioWare and don't want to seem disrespectful of the devs here, but I personally feel that after ME2 I kind of need to. You all seem like pretty nice guys, it's just that... well... I question the direction you've chosen to take your product in. It's nothing personal, but it's just how I feel. And I can't bring myself to be that positive given this.

Modifié par Terror_K, 23 janvier 2011 - 06:49 .

[Iakus]

Terror_K wrote...

It's not that I think the devs need insulting, it's just that I feel criticism is the only way to get across the notion of being displeased with a product and the only way things will be improved. When you feel somebody has made mistakes or could do things better, I feel they should be told. I personally think praise for things that should be criticised is counter-productive. And overall the thing that has disappointed me a great deal is that after ME1's release there was a lot more back-and-forth feedback about improving the next game than there seems to have been in ME2's wake..

As another "vocal critic" (definitely sounds better than "hater") I definitely sympathize.  What I do is:  Write every post assuming a developer will read it.  That way, you have to ask yourself "Is this really the best way you can present your arguement?"   Sorta like a child being good, or at least trying to,  'cause they believe Santa is watching

[Fiery Phoenix]

I like to think our posts are constantly being read by BioWare personnel, Iakus. They don't have to respond or engage us; just reading our comments will suffice.



Also, special thanks to Mr. Woo for being there with us!

[Phaedon]

That blog uszi linked, it has a point. Reading suggestions from unexperienced non-game developers can have a negative effect. Hmm, I hope that they only read specific ideas and suggestions (removable helmets etc), and not the huge 'I have an idea about how the whole game should be' threads. Sure, the people that post them have some good ideas, but is it worth the risk? And that puts my WIP thread on hold.

[Kolos2]

Phaedon wrote...
Dev dept. =/= PR Dept.

If a dev posts here, they do it on their free time.

Devs yes, community menagers no, since well thats their job isnt it ?
And this is where the whole cummunity service issue starts, its my own personal opinion that Chris Priesly doesnt do his job right or more precise he fails to be the link between the users of this boards and the devs 

With all do respect to mr. Who: why the hell does a QA fellow take his place more that not ? and even worse without him we wouldnt have any  direct contact with a bioware employee most of the time


Last, look folks you are a costumer its your well duty to have some critical thinking towards a company since  this makes them more transparent.  

"thy have many things  to do"; Great terror, what kind of a justification is this, Bioware was sold to EA for how much ?  and thy can hire a person or two  to handle us? 


Some who could nudge Mac Walters to talk a bit about existing plot holes in ME2 or answer Mass Effect  universe relavant questions. (respect to David Gaider and the other writers on the DA boards )
If not directy via an cummunity menager 

Modifié par Kolos2, 23 janvier 2011 - 10:02 .

[didymos1120]

Fiery Phoenix wrote...

I like to think our posts are constantly being read by BioWare personnel, Iakus. They don't have to respond or engage us; just reading our comments will suffice.

Christina Norman recently posted on twitter that she spends a fair amount of time lurking on the forums.

Modifié par didymos1120, 23 janvier 2011 - 10:38 .

[Jade Elf]

didymos1120 wrote...

Fiery Phoenix wrote...

I like to think our posts are constantly being read by BioWare personnel, Iakus. They don't have to respond or engage us; just reading our comments will suffice.

Christina Norman recently posted on twitter that she spends a fair amount of time lurking on the forums.

Modifié par Jade Elf, 23 janvier 2011 - 10:44 .

[Terror_K]

Phaedon wrote...
Sure, the people that post them have some good ideas, but is it worth the risk?

But the priiiize!

[didymos1120]

Jade Elf wrote...

Who?

Fixed.

[Dominus]

 I send my thanks to Mr. Woo
for few can do what he can do.
The trolls and haters must beware,
the Volusing of Bioware.

 Besides, we all know that Chris Priestly is the evil one around here.

Modifié par DominusVita, 23 janvier 2011 - 11:59 .

[joe90057]

The devs I'm sure read this forum...they probably have a guy and that's all his job is...but they're probably not commenting back because the game is still 10-12 months away and even if they use any of our ideas they're not going to tell us! "Oh hey, I really want Liara back on my team!" Then a dev comes and says "you're in luck cause its happening". Then people would be mad over spoilers. They can't win with us so they don't try, its understandable. BTW, I just used the above as an example, nobody actually said that so don't start a thread about it. Haha

[Phaedon]

Kolos2 wrote...
Devs yes, community menagers no, since well thats their job isnt it ?

Community managers do lurk as this thread has proved? 

And this is where the whole cummunity service issue starts, its my own personal opinion that Chris Priesly doesnt do his job right or more precise he fails to be the link between the users of this boards and the devs

? Does his post announcements and podcasts now and then? Does he lurk? Then what's the problem exactly? Are you expecting a full Q/A where devs publically state that Mass Effect 2 was a horrible game, that the community is awesome, and that they should feel free to throw rocks at them?

With all do respect to mr. Who:

j/k

why the hell does a QA fellow take his place more that not ? and even worse without him we wouldnt have any  direct contact with a bioware employee most of the time

Why not? Under what obligation should Chris Priestly post anything more than announcements? 

Last, look folks you are a costumer its your well duty to have some critical thinking towards a company since  this makes them more transparent.

Thankfully, no. You don't have the right to post non-constructive criticism and that should be banable.

"thy have many things  to do"; Great terror, what kind of a justification is this, Bioware was sold to EA for how much ?  and thy can hire a person or two  to handle us?

Maybe you should consider that Chris Priestly does not post because it's against the policy? Replying in threads with 'this and that will be in ME3' would surely prove to be harmful?

Some who could nudge Mac Walters to talk a bit about existing plot holes in ME2 or answer Mass Effect  universe relavant questions. (respect to David Gaider and the other writers on the DA boards )
If not directy via an cummunity menager 

I am glad that no dev has to reply to what this great community of armchair scientists and story writers considers as retcons and plotholes. 

[Fiery Phoenix]

Phaedon wrote...

I am glad that no dev has to reply to what this great community of armchair scientists and story writers considers as retcons and plotholes.

I'm tempted to sig this.

Modifié par Fiery Phoenix, 23 janvier 2011 - 01:28 .