434 réponses à ce sujet

[MoonChildTheUnholy]

Terror_K wrote...

didymos1120 wrote...

You seem to think the devs necessarily agree with you about what are and are not flaws, or at least that they should.  If they don't, which is likely to be the case with a lot of what you perceive as flaws, what do you expect them to acknowledge?  The fact that you don't like this or that element?

They don't have to admit that they're necessarily flaws, but it would at least be nice if they at least elaborated a little as to why things were done the way they were and why certain choices were made that perhaps some of us don't agree with. I know and understand that what constitutes a flaw or not is very much a matter of perspective and point of view. Hence why there are a lot of back-and-forth discussions and arguments on these forums overall as to whether ME2 was dumbed down or not, and whether certain elements being changed were good or not, etc. But just some basic insights to some of the design decisions would be nice (particularly stuff like why they chose to scrap modding, why they went with "Mission Complete" screens, why they thought having squaddies without proper protection was acceptable, etc.)

^This, great post Terror_K!

People have to understand one thing, ME2 had lots of changes and to many and myself included there were some features removed that didn´t really improved the game, no one that played ME1 properly can deny this. Some say its better and some say difderently, Bioware has to find the middle ground here i guess.

Anyway i congratulate the devs, its my favorite Sci-fi game and thats why i give a **** to post and critique or praise when needed.

[Epic777]

MoonChildTheUnholy wrote...

Terror_K wrote...

didymos1120 wrote...

You seem to think the devs necessarily agree with you about what are and are not flaws, or at least that they should.  If they don't, which is likely to be the case with a lot of what you perceive as flaws, what do you expect them to acknowledge?  The fact that you don't like this or that element?

They don't have to admit that they're necessarily flaws, but it would at least be nice if they at least elaborated a little as to why things were done the way they were and why certain choices were made that perhaps some of us don't agree with. I know and understand that what constitutes a flaw or not is very much a matter of perspective and point of view. Hence why there are a lot of back-and-forth discussions and arguments on these forums overall as to whether ME2 was dumbed down or not, and whether certain elements being changed were good or not, etc. But just some basic insights to some of the design decisions would be nice (particularly stuff like why they chose to scrap modding, why they went with "Mission Complete" screens, why they thought having squaddies without proper protection was acceptable, etc.)

^This, great post Terror_K!

People have to understand one thing, ME2 had lots of changes and to many and myself included there were some features removed that didn´t really improved the game, no one that played ME1 properly can deny this. Some say its better and some say difderently, Bioware has to find the middle ground here i guess.

Anyway i congratulate the devs, its my favorite Sci-fi game and thats why i give a **** to post and critique or praise when needed.

Really? People can deny a great many things. If the combat mechanics in Morrowind can be defended anything is possible.

[MoonChildTheUnholy]

Epic777 wrote...

MoonChildTheUnholy wrote...

Terror_K wrote...

didymos1120 wrote...

You seem to think the devs necessarily agree with you about what are and are not flaws, or at least that they should.  If they don't, which is likely to be the case with a lot of what you perceive as flaws, what do you expect them to acknowledge?  The fact that you don't like this or that element?

They don't have to admit that they're necessarily flaws, but it would at least be nice if they at least elaborated a little as to why things were done the way they were and why certain choices were made that perhaps some of us don't agree with. I know and understand that what constitutes a flaw or not is very much a matter of perspective and point of view. Hence why there are a lot of back-and-forth discussions and arguments on these forums overall as to whether ME2 was dumbed down or not, and whether certain elements being changed were good or not, etc. But just some basic insights to some of the design decisions would be nice (particularly stuff like why they chose to scrap modding, why they went with "Mission Complete" screens, why they thought having squaddies without proper protection was acceptable, etc.)

^This, great post Terror_K!

People have to understand one thing, ME2 had lots of changes and to many and myself included there were some features removed that didn´t really improved the game, no one that played ME1 properly can deny this. Some say its better and some say difderently, Bioware has to find the middle ground here i guess.

Anyway i congratulate the devs, its my favorite Sci-fi game and thats why i give a **** to post and critique or praise when needed.

Really? People can deny a great many things. If the combat mechanics in Morrowind can be defended anything is possible.

Oh you´re right people can deny it easily if it goes against what they think, door swings both ways yeah.

[Izaeus]

Both ME1 and ME2 had their selling points... armor was much better done in 2 but I liked the variety in 1, I despised using the mako (though they fixed the vehicle exploration with the DLC in 2) but I loved being able to choose between all the weapons (though I think all the races should have had a specific armor that was vastly superior for their race instead of almost everyone being good with Colossus armor).  Biggest thing about 2 I didn't like was they cut way down on the RPG side... more options on level up would have been nice (similar to 1).  And to the Elder Scrolls comment... I don't see anything wrong with the combat, the more you hit something the better you got... what's wrong with that?

[habitat 67]

After spending over an hour trying to find Krogan Ballemaster armour earlier today I realize that little things like hunting for rare items can be its own fun minigame. (more fun than scanning a planet for one of four elements).

[Epic777]

Izaeus wrote...

Both ME1 and ME2 had their selling points... armor was much better done in 2 but I liked the variety in 1, I despised using the mako (though they fixed the vehicle exploration with the DLC in 2) but I loved being able to choose between all the weapons (though I think all the races should have had a specific armor that was vastly superior for their race instead of almost everyone being good with Colossus armor).  Biggest thing about 2 I didn't like was they cut way down on the RPG side... more options on level up would have been nice (similar to 1).  And to the Elder Scrolls comment... I don't see anything wrong with the combat, the more you hit something the better you got... what's wrong with that?

Morrowind, combat went like this: a few points in any given weapon you couldn't hit the broad side of an elephants backside (no matter how close you were), at high levels you will never miss. Combat also tended to be very imbalanced, magic was underpowered compared to range and melee combat. The skills were also very imbalanced, alchemy and enchanting could easily break the game. Not saying the game as a whole was bad actually it was very good but the combat mechanics and combat in general were luckluster. 

[Jebel Krong]

didymos1120 wrote...

Terror_K wrote...

I can't speak for everybody here, but I'm personally more frustrated with the lack of feedback and acknowledgement regarding ME2's flaws than I am of the actual flaws themselves.

You seem to think the devs necessarily agree with you about what are and are not flaws, or at least that they should.  If they don't, which is likely to be the case with a lot of what you perceive as flaws, what do you expect them to acknowledge?  The fact that you don't like this or that element?

this. one person's flaw is not another's - what could anyone do to please everyone - perhaps a public mea culpa for everything? 

[War Houndoom]

If you don't mind I would like to quote a post from another thread.

"Quoted from ShepardOrsiris"

Look, I love Bioware more than I can express, always have, probably always will, however, I'm not some puppet that's just going to say "Good Job" and "We love you Bioware" no matter what they do. You guys sitting there acting like Bioware is being superior or justified in giving us the silent treatment just don't get the picture.

The problem I have is that Bioware often has to say "we've got DLC coming out" , or "big annoucncement coming". Then nothing, just dead silence for often months afterwards. I mean WTH man, if your not going to talk about it, don't mention it. I completely understand devs have confidentiality agreements and can't or don't want to talk about something until a certain time. I'm totally understanding of that, but don't be a jerk about it, don't let it slip that there is this news or content on the horizon, and then act like we're all deaf, dumb and blind. That's what really urks me. That and the fact that lately, everytime they say it's some big news or DLC, it's something horrible and depressing, like the Alternate appearance pack, FemShep's dress, or the dreaded Bioware Bazaar, all big news and big DLC announcements.

I don't understand why they feel the need to handle announcements this way. If they just stayed silent, we'd all be likely thinking DLC for ME 2 was done, and then when they were ready, they could come out, announce what it was, and talk all about it. The community would rejoice, be happy to have new content and likely not be too upset even if the news or DLC wasn't that huge.

However Bioware too often seems to prefer to handle announcements and DLC promotion more like walking up to someone, telling them they have a big suprise for them, then turn around walk away and don't see them for 2 months. Then when they finally do see them they have a big aw struck grin on thier face and promptly hand them a brown paper bag with a mound of horse crap in it.

Yes, some people just say mean things about the games or whatever without merit and just frankly don't belong here, and I understand the devs not wanting to deal with those people, but that doesn't excuse them from treating the rest of us that do respect them and appreciate them with so little regard.

"End quote"

My question is why the community isn't properly updated on important news regarding ME-3 or DLC? People are starting to get upset because of this. You could say that there isn't news to report but I doubt anyone would believe you. I understand you have to go through marketing and the other Devs before you can release information but to keep the fans in the dark for so long does more harm than good. It is hard to keep the debate in the forums civil when there is nothing new to report, and in effect the same topics get rehashed over and over again. A community works both ways and many of us feel you guys have abandoned us. One way to correct this would be to have a community day where the Devs participate in the forums with discussion. Another would be to keep us updated on new information.

Regardless, we all appreciate the work you do even if at times that we seem ungrateful and unruly.

Thank you, keep up the good work.

[fixed spacing and quote]

Modifié par Stanley Woo, 25 janvier 2011 - 05:29 .

[Kolos2]

Nohvarr wrote...

A few are all it takes to ruin something. If we can not police ourselves and act civil, then we really shouldn't be surprised when devs stop coming around.

If this would be the case, boards like Blizzards would be closed most of the time; withou any word of any kind from people that work there

And why the asumption that devs post here for free? as far i know Chris is paid to handle the community ;
even if not it only means their interest (in comparison with DA team) is very low

Modifié par Kolos2, 25 janvier 2011 - 10:54 .

[didymos1120]

Kolos2 wrote...

And why the asumption that devs post here for free?

It's not an assumption: they're paid to work on the games.  Posting on the forums isn't working on the games.  Ergo, they aren't getting paid to do that.

as far i know Chris is paid to handle the community ;

Chris isn't a "dev" in any but the loosest of senses.  Because, you know, his job isn't game development?  It's "Community Coordinator".

Modifié par didymos1120, 25 janvier 2011 - 11:20 .

[Lumikki]

MoonChildTheUnholy wrote...

Terror_K wrote...

They don't have to admit that they're necessarily flaws, but it would at least be nice if they at least elaborated a little as to why things were done the way they were and why certain choices were made that perhaps some of us don't agree with. I know and understand that what constitutes a flaw or not is very much a matter of perspective and point of view. Hence why there are a lot of back-and-forth discussions and arguments on these forums overall as to whether ME2 was dumbed down or not, and whether certain elements being changed were good or not, etc. But just some basic insights to some of the design decisions would be nice (particularly stuff like why they chose to scrap modding, why they went with "Mission Complete" screens, why they thought having squaddies without proper protection was acceptable, etc.)

^This, great post Terror_K!

People have to understand one thing, ME2 had lots of changes and to many and myself included there were some features removed that didn´t really improved the game, no one that played ME1 properly can deny this. Some say its better and some say difderently, Bioware has to find the middle ground here i guess.

Anyway i congratulate the devs, its my favorite Sci-fi game and thats why i give a **** to post and critique or praise when needed.

It's great post if you look it from perspective of someone who is disapointed with the game. Let me explain. Poster asks Bioware to explain the decissions making what they have made with game as why they did change those specifict game details. Most important they don't want to know every feature, but features what caused them to be disapointed. Now ask you self, how does answering these questions change anything? If you are disapointed, no reason why it's done make it better. So, why are you even asking, when answer doesn't change anything at all. Also most of us can even ques Biowares answer without asking. These people don't really ask question, they went they frustrations and want  to challenge Biowares decission making.

Real question what they REALLY want to ask is this.

Is this new design direction what ME2 and DA2 are presenting Biowares future?

Because when this question get answered, it's all over for these people. Problem isn't answer, but accepting it.

How ever, nothing what I sayed here cause developers talk more here in this forum. What there is to talk about. I'm more interested what developers are doing they new games than why some stuff are done in they old games how it is. See the difference here. It's not about past, it's the future what's really interesting. Think about it.

Modifié par Lumikki, 25 janvier 2011 - 12:57 .

[Phaedon]

Is this new design direction what ME2 and DA2 are presenting Biowares future?

Not something that can be answered. It's a work of art, and it changes according to the ideas and opinions that I have at that time.

[Lumikki]

Phaedon wrote...

Is this new design direction what ME2 and DA2 are presenting Biowares future?

Not something that can be answered. It's a work of art, and it changes according to the ideas and opinions that I have at that time.

Sorry, I sayed that question little wrong. It's not question what's good for Bioware, it was ment to be question as does Bioware continue to modernize they game the design to serve larger audience. Meaning moving from narrow customer base of traditional RPG more to direction of visual action RPG to please wider audience.

Modifié par Lumikki, 25 janvier 2011 - 01:08 .

[Phaedon]

Modernize? Do you mean more pew pew explosions or better graphics?

[PSUHammer]

Kolos2 wrote...


In short, the conclusion of this topic is: its the fault of the community that devs dont post here, due to present possibility of criticism by the vocal few

And that the existence of this board, its content and bioware role in it, is well basically their free and hard spent time. Only for the benefit of the community

Ah well wish i had costumers like those

Sarcasm aside, point one is flawed as I see quite a few dev posts here.  Point two is accurate.

Based on the number of people that post (or even look) in these forums, Bioware could just shut it down altogether and it wouldn't affect game sales.  There are other developer gaming sites that are completely ignored by said developers.  It's neat that Bioware employees post here at all...and not just community managers, but lead designers, writers, etc.  Also, many developers may find posting on forums a complete waste of time, or, like me, post vary rarely.

The sense of entitlement from some gamers who frequently visit forums is amazing.

Modifié par Hammer6767, 25 janvier 2011 - 01:14 .

[nipsen]

Hammer6767 wrote...

The sense of entitlement from some gamers who frequently visit forums is amazing.

..how could they not feel that way, when they adopt "commonly held views" that publishers and console-devs demonstrably choose in the end, whether they approve of the choice or not. They also always base their views on easy to document metrics, and particular choices that fit perfectly into feedback forms (which obviously is.. oh, total coincidence, that no one on Neogaf knows anything about).. And then insist that everyone else should also have those views - because if they do not, they argue for making the game fail.

It's very common, you know. Annoying, but - very common. And thanks to no or little critical attitude towards this from certain publishers, it really does have an impact on the actual games (rather than, say, be inspiring targeted advertisement). 

So not only do they have an incredible sense of entitlement, but they demonstrably also have influence.. as long as the entire.. "most people have this opinion, not just on the internet - my 10.000 followers agree" thing goes well...

[Phaedon]

^ It's the the era of the internet. Everyone is entitled to slap the developers on the face and get a reward for it.

[aksoileau]

The forums aren't the only place for bioware to get feedback you know. The dross that is spewed on this forum most of the time is probably why millions of bioware fans avoid them.

[Phaedon]

aksoileau wrote...

The forums aren't the only place for bioware to get feedback you know. The dross that is spewed on this forum most of the time is probably why millions of bioware fans avoid them.

Christina Norman did ask feedback for heavy weapons, elsewhere. Just shows how much we have let our credibility degrade, due to allowing all the trolls and whiners.

[JHU_P4NDA]

In all honesty, it's probably just because Mass Effect 3 is the main focus right now. And frankly, I like it. Imagine if you poured huge portions of your life into a game like Mass Effect 2, and a year later 90% of the people posting on the forums about are selfish, self-involved ****s who seem to consider it nothing short of a crime that the game wasn't exactly as they wanted it.



I wish we could all send an apology to Bioware for all the trolls and whiners, and let them know that on the whole (HUGE whole), we are all huge fans of their work, and that they really are appreciated. But instead we just have trolls on here about how it's all about money to these people. NOT SH*T, Sherlocks, you think all these people can afford to do these things gratis? That they made a game as amazing as Mass Effect simply from sheer force of will and eating at soup kitchens every night? Every member of the dev team is a real individual, and probably has more of a life than the whiners and trolls. They have families to feed, kids to send to college, medical bills to pay, utilities to pay, rent to pay, tuition...the list goes on.



There will always be a place for constructive criticism. But when you whine and cry about a game without anything constructive to add, and when you're straight up disrespectful to people who are trying to do their jobs...well now you get why nobody listens to you anymore.

[Dominus]

Couldn't have said that better myself - your signature also has the message right as well. I try to visit the forums here and contribute every day, but the majority of these topics and posts are hardly contributing at all, and it can be downright depressing.

Just shows how much we have let our credibility degrade, due to allowing all the trolls and whiners.

There's always hope to bring back the reputation to something much more respectable. Or at least I hope so o_o.

[JHU_P4NDA]

DominusVita wrote...

There's always hope to bring back the reputation to something much more respectable. Or at least I hope so o_o.

I hope so too

[Phaedon]

Could we all sign a letter like you suggested, JHU? Maybe make a group and count membership as a signature?

[Stanley Woo]

JHU_P4NDA wrote...

I wish we could all send an apology to Bioware for all the trolls and whiners, and let them know that on the whole (HUGE whole), we are all huge fans of their work, and that they really are appreciated.

There really is no need. I would recommend that folks just try and be the best forumites they can be, and not try to bash those who disagree with you. instead, lead by example and don't respond to spem, troll- and flamebait, and engage folks in civil, non-hostile discussion and debate. Be positive role models here in the community. Always remember that agreeing to disagree is always an option, and be excellent to each other.

[bjdbwea]

Stanley Woo wrote...

There really is no need. I would recommend that folks just try and be the best forumites they can be, and not try to bash those who disagree with you. instead, lead by example and don't respond to spem, troll- and flamebait, and engage folks in civil, non-hostile discussion and debate. Be positive role models here in the community. Always remember that agreeing to disagree is always an option, and be excellent to each other.

Thanks. It's nice to hear that criticism is still allowed on these forums, contrary to the apparent wish of some posters.