434 réponses à ce sujet

[habitat 67]

Phaedon wrote...

DominusVita wrote...

Phaedon... why aren't you a moderator?

Mostly because I am an @ss 90% of the time.

bjdbwea wrote...
Actually, I bought and own MDK 2, like all other BioWare PC games so far. Though that's not entirely correct, DA:O Awakening was the first exception. And where did I ever say that BioWare only produced or should only produce RPGs? That's right, nowhere did I say that, even though I would certainly prefer it. But it's okay if they also create MMOs or even generic multiplayer shooters in the Mass Effect universe. What's not okay is to sell something like ME 2 as the successor to a fantastic game.

Ah yes, "ME2 sucked". Constructive criticism right there.

Countering the trolls' paper thin swiss cheese arguements with common sense and fact is irresistible, isn't it.  

To stay on topic, here's an interesting article on why Developers should not read their own forums, written by a developer.
http://jeff-vogel.bl...ould-never.html ' class='bbc_url' title='Lien externe' rel='nofollow external'> http://jeff-vogel.bl...ould-never.html

Modifié par habitat 67, 26 janvier 2011 - 10:20 .

[Terror_K]

Phaedon wrote...

I'll try to ignore the fact that you indirectly suggested that innovation is a bad thing.

I fail to see how cutting down RPG factors, depth and player choice and replacing everything with oversimplified TPS elements that are a dime-a-dozen these days and have mostly been around for decades now is "innovation" though. Mass Effect 2 didn't innovate for the most part: it simply introduced a whole bunch of elements that are the current favourite flavour for this generation of gamers.

Stating your opinion as a fact when you are a part of the minority doesn't really help your case. Also, yeah, mainstream means bad. Am I right, Baldur's Gate? Weren't you mainstream once?

So you're saying that majority is always correct and minority is always wrong then?

Of course the majority are going to prefer ME2 when you make the game more mainstream. You've just given another classic example of one player saying, "Mass Effect 2 was ruined by it becoming more mainstream!" and another saying, "No it wasn't. It's more popular than ever and more people love it!" Well, duh!

Also, regarding Baldur's Gate, it came out in a time when gaming was more of a niche market. It wasn't a mainstream game, it was a popular game for gamers at the time, who were mostly nerds and geeks. Gaming has become more casual over the past decade, which is part of the reason that it's generally gotten shallower and more generic, at least when it comes to AAA titles these days: they're all almost always these action-packed hybrid titles now.

[Kane-Corr]

-sigh-

I don't understand, this thread ended on like, page 11...



Why are we all still on this beaten down topic?

[PSUHammer]

Terror_K wrote...

Also, regarding Baldur's Gate, it came out in a time when gaming was more of a niche market. It wasn't a mainstream game, it was a popular game for gamers at the time, who were mostly nerds and geeks. Gaming has become more casual over the past decade, which is part of the reason that it's generally gotten shallower and more generic, at least when it comes to AAA titles these days: they're all almost always these action-packed hybrid titles now.

I have to call BS on that one right there...the 90's were smack dab in the middle of the console craze and PC gaming was taking off as graphic cards were improving and PC's were becoming much easier to upgrade.  That was hardly an era when gaming was "niche".  Granted, it has continued to expand, but I would call the "niche" era the early 80's. Plus, it is opinion that gaming has gotten "shallower and more generic."  You can't substantiate that.

[PSUHammer]

habitat 67 wrote...
Countering the trolls' paper thin swiss cheese arguements with common sense and fact is irresistible, isn't it.  

To stay on topic, here's an interesting article on why Developers should not read their own forums, written by a developer.
http://jeff-vogel.bl...ould-never.html ' class='bbc_url' title='Lien externe' rel='nofollow external'> http://jeff-vogel.bl...ould-never.html

That article is spot on and I agree with that guy completely.  IN fact, it makes me question why I even waste time posting on a forum in the first place.  

That being said...I am OUTTA HERE!

[bjdbwea]

Terror_K wrote...

I fail to see how cutting down RPG factors, depth and player choice and replacing everything with oversimplified TPS elements that are a dime-a-dozen these days and have mostly been around for decades now is "innovation" though. Mass Effect 2 didn't innovate for the most part: it simply introduced a whole bunch of elements that are the current favourite flavour for this generation of gamers.

I agree. It might sell better to copy the gameplay from other, currently popular games, but it's not innovative. In fact, it's quite the opposite. And even less innovative is to cut elements out completely instead of improving them, just because they weren't working perfectly before.

[Terror_K]

habitat 67 wrote...

So you are holding a fabricated set of rules against Bioware that developers have never consistently followed? A lot of game developers make drastic changes from one game to the next, even in the same series. Where would Super Mario be today if Nintendo had not been interested in doing this?

It's different to change the style of games for a similar IP and changing the style of games as part of the same series. Mass Effect is supposed to be a trilogy at the moment, so in a way it's not so much supposed to be three games as it is three parts of the same game. But instead the second part comes along and almost feels like more a reboot than it does a sequel.

Believe it or not, I knew this would happen before I even played ME2 because I'm a Star Wars fan.
Do you remember the drastic shift in tone from "A New Hope" to "Empire Strikes Back" ? Star Trek movies change too, and thank goodness they do, because that first one was a real snooze.

I think you're misunderstanding. I'm not talking about basic tone as in the shift to the dark second act like with Star Wars or the darker tones of the earlier Star Trek movies. I'm talking about a complete shift in the feel and style, where it feels like a reboot of the franchise or being retooled by the network to appeal to a greater audience. The better analogy for how ME2 feels now would be more akin to comparing it to the differences between the original Star Trek and the more recent J.J. Abrams semi-reboot, or between the first seasons of 70's sci-fi classics Space 1999 and Buck Rogers and their second seasons, or between Stargate SG1+Atlantis and the darker, grittier and more generic SGU.

Simply put: the first game felt like it was aimed at old-school sci-fi nerds, while the second felt more like it was aimed at teenagers who love Michael Bay movies.

Hammer6767 wrote...

Plus, it is opinion that gaming has gotten "shallower and more generic."  You can't substantiate that.

Of course it's opinion, but look at the big titles today: they're all mostly these action-oriented, story-driven shooter or action titles with gritty visuals and light RPG elements. There really isn't that much variety these days when you look at it in the AAA titles. Seriously, how really different are the likes of Call of Duty, Halo, Gears of War, Singularity, Prototype, Assassin's Creed, BioShock, Army of Two, Kane and Lynch, Dead Space, Alan Wake, Uncharted, Force Unleashed, Battlefield, Arkham Asylum, Bulletstorm, Medal of Honour, Splinter Cell, Just Cause 2, Resistence, Killzone, God of War, Crysis... the list goes on. They all fit the description I just gave.

Modifié par Terror_K, 26 janvier 2011 - 10:50 .

[Lumikki]

habitat 67 wrote...

To stay on topic, here's an interesting article on why Developers should not read their own forums, written by a developer.
http://jeff-vogel.bl...ould-never.html

Yep, I agree with that articles message. Negativity does sticks with you, even how hard you try to be that it does not affect anything. When you self become little bit "hostile" your own customers, nothing good comes from it. So, I do agree, it's often better to stay away from "hostile" forum and let someone like "customer service" read it and collect information, if there is any.

I don't think some of our forum members understands what general affect they also have to this forum. It's not about does they message go trough, becouse it does. But they general "hostality" even how constructive it has been masked affects everyone here in this forum. So, if developers aren't here, it's our own fault.

Modifié par Lumikki, 26 janvier 2011 - 10:55 .

[Stanley Woo]

I think this discussion has gone from "why don't developers participate in this forum?" to "why does BioWare have to make games for everyone but me?" so I'm going to shut it down. i'd like to thank everyone for their participation in this thread, and I hope you have learned a little something about how game development works.



end of line.

[Epic777]

Kane-Corr wrote...

-sigh-
I don't understand, this thread ended on like, page 11...

Why are we all still on this beaten down topic?

wait till me3 ships then it will be: me1 vs me2 vs me3 mark my words.