434 réponses à ce sujet

[Mr_Commander_Shepard]

Stanley Woo wrote...

For the record: I am part of the QA team (not a lead in any way) on Dragon Age II. i have also been a community Moderator since 2002. Thank you.

Thank you for the clarification.

[didymos1120]

Mr_Commander_Shepard wrote...

I don't understand what your saying. If your saying that these forums don't represent their fan base then you are awfully wrong.

The forums represent the portion of the fanbase that posts on the forums.  That portion is nowhere near 100% of the entire ME fanbase.

[Kane-Corr]

Mr_Commander_Shepard....you really can't grasp what is going on...why don't you sift through the forums...like back to a few months ago, and even before Mass 2 launched, and you will see plenty of Dev participation...then, and hopefully then, will you piece together the entire picture...that the Devs will not answer or talk until there is something to talk about...i.e...Mass Effect 3. Get it now? Good.



/thread.

[Mr_Commander_Shepard]

Count Viceroy wrote...

Da_Lion_Man wrote...

I think the negativity is too strong for them and they stopped caring because some people are/were being unreasonable.
I don't blame them to be honest.

I think they need to grow a thicker skin then. Being what they are and what they do.

even if this is true they should tell us this.

[Lumikki]

Mr_Commander_Shepard wrote...

wrong. If i like cheese burgers but no else does, im not gonna sell them to people. im gonna ask people what they like and want. And then start from there.

Yes, but if they don't want to sell burgers, but decide to sell pizza's. Why would they answer you, who keep demanding burger, when they have allready deside not to sell burgers. Point here is not bark in pizza place why my pizza isn't burger. Then demand communication with management, because you are angry. No wonder management doesn't want to talk with you.

Modifié par Lumikki, 21 janvier 2011 - 11:31 .

[Stanley Woo]

Count Viceroy wrote...

Da_Lion_Man wrote...

I think the negativity is too strong for them and they stopped caring because some people are/were being unreasonable.
I don't blame them to be honest.

I think they need to grow a thicker skin then. Being what they are and what they do.

And on the other side of the coin, I think some folks need to learn how to speak to people online--not even customer-to-developer, but just plain, old-fashioned, well-reasonsed debate and discussion. Too many folks online believe that volume, frequency of posts, threats, and name-calling are valid substitute for courtesy and civility. If you wish to be treated fairly, then please do us the courtesy of treating us that way as well.

we have never stopped caring. The number of developers who participate in the community has always been small, particularly when their project has nothing to discuss yet.

[Piecake]

Mr_Commander_Shepard wrote...

I don't understand what your saying. If your saying that these forums don't represent their fan base then you are awfully wrong.

Hardcore bioware fans are not representative of their fanbase, and it just sounds like a bad business decision to solely listen to fans here because then you might be limiting your target audience

[Stanley Woo]

Mr_Commander_Shepard wrote...

Piecake wrote...

This place is not represenative of their fanbase, and most especially the gaming fanbase at large

I don't understand what your saying. If your saying that these forums don't represent their fan base then you are awfully wrong.

Consider that, even if 1 million people buy our game, we usually only have a couple hundred who post regularly. Even if we are generous and call it 10,000 who post regularly, that's 1% of Mass Effect players who post. One percent of the fanbase does not necessarily accurately represent the entire fanbase. And while the folks on here are given an inordinate amount of attention, we can and do gather feedback in other ways and from different groups of players.

Please check your math, Mr_Commander_Shepard.

[shinobi602]

Stanley Woo wrote...

And on the other side of the coin, I think some folks need to learn how to speak to people online--not even customer-to-developer, but just plain, old-fashioned, well-reasonsed debate and discussion. Too many folks online believe that volume, frequency of posts, threats, and name-calling are valid substitute for courtesy and civility. If you wish to be treated fairly, then please do us the courtesy of treating us that way as well.

we have never stopped caring. The number of developers who participate in the community has always been small, particularly when their project has nothing to discuss yet.

Yes, of course. Agreed 100%. But Stanley, you can't group everyone on this forum into one and dish out the collective punishment, right? Why not ignore the rotten apples and have the courteous and civil discussions with the ones that do care and do want a real discourse?

[Mr_Commander_Shepard]

Kane-Corr wrote...

Mr_Commander_Shepard....you really can't grasp what is going on...why don't you sift through the forums...like back to a few months ago, and even before Mass 2 launched, and you will see plenty of Dev participation...then, and hopefully then, will you piece together the entire picture...that the Devs will not answer or talk until there is something to talk about...i.e...Mass Effect 3. Get it now? Good.

/thread.

You have no grasp on what i am talking about. Majority of the people on these forums are upset at the least with bioware. We just want to stop being ignored and get them somewhat involved with the community. We know they don't have to but it would be the right thing to do. Maybe they will start getting involved near ME3 but they're probably not gonna get a warm welcome if they wait that long.

[Gibb_Shepard]

Stanley Woo wrote...

Count Viceroy wrote...

Da_Lion_Man wrote...

I think the negativity is too strong for them and they stopped caring because some people are/were being unreasonable.
I don't blame them to be honest.

I think they need to grow a thicker skin then. Being what they are and what they do.

And on the other side of the coin, I think some folks need to learn how to speak to people online--not even customer-to-developer, but just plain, old-fashioned, well-reasonsed debate and discussion. Too many folks online believe that volume, frequency of posts, threats, and name-calling are valid substitute for courtesy and civility. If you wish to be treated fairly, then please do us the courtesy of treating us that way as well.

we have never stopped caring. The number of developers who participate in the community has always been small, particularly when their project has nothing to discuss yet.

It will slowly get more hostile the more the community is ignored. Simple comments on the myriad of questions many have here would go a long way, and i'm quite certain the community would be very civil about it. I understand, however, if the devs have work to do, that is definitely priority one. But completely ignoring the community's many questions really doesn't help the hostility here.

[Kane-Corr]

Mr_Commander_Shepard wrote...

Kane-Corr wrote...

Mr_Commander_Shepard....you really can't grasp what is going on...why don't you sift through the forums...like back to a few months ago, and even before Mass 2 launched, and you will see plenty of Dev participation...then, and hopefully then, will you piece together the entire picture...that the Devs will not answer or talk until there is something to talk about...i.e...Mass Effect 3. Get it now? Good.

/thread.

You have no grasp on what i am talking about. Majority of the people on these forums are upset at the least with bioware. We just want to stop being ignored and get them somewhat involved with the community. We know they don't have to but it would be the right thing to do. Maybe they will start getting involved near ME3 but they're probably not gonna get a warm welcome if they wait that long.

Well...I'm talking to a wall then....it's all good. But maybe you SHOULD check your math like Mr. Woo so nicely put. And I'm going to say: Please check what you and other people are saying. Their seems to be somewhat of a disconnect in how you are receiving what people are saying. Oh, and, for one last time...

Bioware, the majority of Devs, will start talking once Mass 3 draws nearer...whew! I hope you got it this time!

[Mr_Commander_Shepard]

Stanley Woo wrote...

Mr_Commander_Shepard wrote...

Piecake wrote...

This place is not represenative of their fanbase, and most especially the gaming fanbase at large

I don't understand what your saying. If your saying that these forums don't represent their fan base then you are awfully wrong.

Consider that, even if 1 million people buy our game, we usually only have a couple hundred who post regularly. Even if we are generous and call it 10,000 who post regularly, that's 1% of Mass Effect players who post. One percent of the fanbase does not necessarily accurately represent the entire fanbase. And while the folks on here are given an inordinate amount of attention, we can and do gather feedback in other ways and from different groups of players.

Please check your math, Mr_Commander_Shepard.

I never did any math whatsoever. Does it really hurt to talk to the players who do take the time to come on to these forums to talk with you? We could just play the game then throw on the shelf and wait for ME3, but we obviously love the game more than that. We may be a small percent of everyone who actually plays but it doesn't mean we should get treated like this.

[Piecake]

Mr_Commander_Shepard wrote...

I never did any math whatsoever. Does it really hurt to talk to the players who do take the time to come on to these forums to talk with you? We could just play the game then throw on the shelf and wait for ME3, but we obviously love the game more than that. We may be a small percent of everyone who actually plays but it doesn't mean we should get treated like this.

You need to stop feeling entitled.  Just because you post on Bioware's forum and are fan of the game doesnt mean that the developers owe it to you to respond to your questions, and when they don't, it doesnt mean they are insulting or disrespecting you.

[Count Viceroy]

Stanley Woo wrote...

Count Viceroy wrote...

Da_Lion_Man wrote...

I think the negativity is too strong for them and they stopped caring because some people are/were being unreasonable.
I don't blame them to be honest.

I think they need to grow a thicker skin then. Being what they are and what they do.

And on the other side of the coin, I think some folks need to learn how to speak to people online--not even customer-to-developer, but just plain, old-fashioned, well-reasonsed debate and discussion. Too many folks online believe that volume, frequency of posts, threats, and name-calling are valid substitute for courtesy and civility. If you wish to be treated fairly, then please do us the courtesy of treating us that way as well.

we have never stopped caring. The number of developers who participate in the community has always been small, particularly when their project has nothing to discuss yet.

Yeah, I wasn't implying that acting like a total dick is somehow acceptable, just because we're on the internet. It just seems strange that such a vocal minority, as you put it would drive the official posters away. 

It's obviously your choice wether or not to post, but It's really weird how the DAO team happens to have *all* the active posters.

Modifié par Count Viceroy, 21 janvier 2011 - 11:49 .

[Lumikki]

Mr_Commander_Shepard wrote...

You have no grasp on what i am talking about. Majority of the people on these forums are upset at the least with bioware. We just want to stop being ignored and get them somewhat involved with the community. We know they don't have to but it would be the right thing to do. Maybe they will start getting involved near ME3 but they're probably not gonna get a warm welcome if they wait that long.

First what majority? I ques I'm minority, because I'm not upset at the least with Bioware. Are you sure the majority thing, any source for it?

This is exactly what's wrong. People who are upset demand they consern to be listen and answered. But what if Bioware doesn't agree with you conserns and make it go away. What's the point of answer, because that make you just more upset.

First learn to respect Bioware and they decission making what they have done. Then maybe they will come and talk to us.

[Stanley Woo]

shinobi602 wrote...
Yes, of course. Agreed 100%. But Stanley, you can't group everyone on this forum into one and dish out the collective punishment, right? Why not ignore the rotten apples and have the courteous and civil discussions with the ones that do care and do want a real discourse?

We do. but sometimes, the "rotten apples" as you call them can and should be given the opportunity to change. We still want them as players, of course, and not all of them dig in their heels to the same extent. We've had several threads in the Dragon Age II forum from folks who were originally adamant that DA II looked terrible and they would never buy it, only to post later to say they were wrong and were now very much looking forward to the game.

If you never give people a chance to change, you are no better than the ones who post with a closed mind that can never be changes or assuaged. Always remember to be excellent to each other, shinobi602.

[Kane-Corr]

Mr_Commander_Shepard wrote...

Stanley Woo wrote...

Mr_Commander_Shepard wrote...

Piecake wrote...

This place is not represenative of their fanbase, and most especially the gaming fanbase at large

I don't understand what your saying. If your saying that these forums don't represent their fan base then you are awfully wrong.

Consider that, even if 1 million people buy our game, we usually only have a couple hundred who post regularly. Even if we are generous and call it 10,000 who post regularly, that's 1% of Mass Effect players who post. One percent of the fanbase does not necessarily accurately represent the entire fanbase. And while the folks on here are given an inordinate amount of attention, we can and do gather feedback in other ways and from different groups of players.

Please check your math, Mr_Commander_Shepard.

I never did any math whatsoever. Does it really hurt to talk to the players who do take the time to come on to these forums to talk with you? We could just play the game then throw on the shelf and wait for ME3, but we obviously love the game more than that. We may be a small percent of everyone who actually plays but it doesn't mean we should get treated like this.

You just don't get it do you man? WE don't deserve anything. Bioware doesn't owe us anything! Just stick around and talk to other forum goers...WOW life isn't all about talking to the Devs about minute details that we will figure out eventually! They are making OUR FAVORITE GAME....the one that we talk about, laugh about, etc. So, why don't you chill man...your posts are still discouraging...your making it seem like Bioware is the bad guy...when in fact, you are committing the crime.

[Drowsy0106]

Mr_Commander_Shepard wrote...

Kane-Corr wrote...

Mr_Commander_Shepard....you really can't grasp what is going on...why don't you sift through the forums...like back to a few months ago, and even before Mass 2 launched, and you will see plenty of Dev participation...then, and hopefully then, will you piece together the entire picture...that the Devs will not answer or talk until there is something to talk about...i.e...Mass Effect 3. Get it now? Good.

/thread.

You have no grasp on what i am talking about. Majority of the people on these forums are upset at the least with bioware. We just want to stop being ignored and get them somewhat involved with the community. We know they don't have to but it would be the right thing to do. Maybe they will start getting involved near ME3 but they're probably not gonna get a warm welcome if they wait that long.

Which majority exactly? And i've only been lurking here for a few months and BW in terms of involvement with the community and actual presence puts most game developers to shame. I like to think they are putting in a lot of effort to give ME3 the attention it deserves and give the Shepard saga a proper closing, if that means they get to post less frequently and appear less involved with your concerns, so be it. 

[Mr_Commander_Shepard]

Lumikki wrote...

Mr_Commander_Shepard wrote...

You have no grasp on what i am talking about. Majority of the people on these forums are upset at the least with bioware. We just want to stop being ignored and get them somewhat involved with the community. We know they don't have to but it would be the right thing to do. Maybe they will start getting involved near ME3 but they're probably not gonna get a warm welcome if they wait that long.

First what majority? I ques I'm minority, because I'm not upset at the least with Bioware. Are you sure the majority thing, any source for it?

This is exactly what's wrong. People who are upset demand they consern to be listen and answered. But what if Bioware doesn't agree with you conserns and make it go away. What's the point of answer, because that make you just more upset.

First learn to respect Bioware and they decission making what they have done. Then maybe they will come and talk to us.

i say majority because of the amount of times this subject comes up. And lately it comes up all the time. And if i am wrong about the majority then there is still a large base of people that feel that we are being ignored as a community.

[Stanley Woo]

Mr_Commander_Shepard wrote...

I never did any math whatsoever. Does it really hurt to talk to the players who do take the time to come on to these forums to talk with you? We could just play the game then throw on the shelf and wait for ME3, but we obviously love the game more than that. We may be a small percent of everyone who actually plays but it doesn't mean we should get treated like this.

Treated like what, Mr_Commander_Shepard. i've already listed at least a half-dozen developers (and did I mention Casey Hudson, who also posted a few times?) who regularly engaged the community in discussion. These developers talked about features in the game pre-release, polled the fanbase here to see how they played the game and what they liked, and writers even came in to chat up the community and everyone seemed to enjoy that, even if those developers didn't always agree with the fans.

Just because we don't come at your beck and call does not mean we are not listening, or that we do not talk on the forums. we have our own schedules and post on the forums when we feel like it. We are not slaves to your whims, as you seem to be implying. that much is not going to change, anyway.

[Ski Mask Wei]

Mr_Commander_Shepard wrote...

Ski Mask Wei wrote...

Lumikki has the right idea. There's really no point for Bioware being on here arguing philosophy on rpg game design. It'd be like arguing progressive and conservative political views except one side has little to no power. People on here need to realize it's Bioware's game to make and they really don't owe us anything (not even a good game). The forums are not shareholders or some EA executive. The forums are not in some collaborative creation process with the developers. We are fans who (hopefully) buy their games, that's it. Our ultimate say in this process is our dollar powers but this is after the heavy lifting of making the game is done. This is how it should be. Nothing kills the creative process like making it feel like work; making something you don't really want to make. The best way this developer/fan thing goes is this: Bioware makes the games THEY want to make and hopefully the people buy and like them.

wrong. If i like cheese burgers but no else does, im not gonna sell them to people. im gonna ask people what they like and want. And then start from there.

Basically I'm saying there's a better chance of the game being good if they are doing what they want.  Bioware deserves the chance.  They've been winning at this game stuff for what?  Ten years now?  They've earned the right to trust their instincts . Let the market auto-correct them if they fail.

I also wouldn't compare creating food and selling it the public to creating art and selling it the public.  One is more complicated than the other but that's a discussion for another time.  

[bjdbwea]

Mr_Commander_Shepard wrote...

You have no grasp on what i am talking about. Majority of the people on these forums are upset at the least with bioware. We just want to stop being ignored and get them somewhat involved with the community. We know they don't have to but it would be the right thing to do. Maybe they will start getting involved near ME3 but they're probably not gonna get a warm welcome if they wait that long.

I don't think it's the majority on these forums who are upset with BioWare. Usually, at this time after release, people who like the game are more likely to frequent the forums than people who don't. That said, ME 2 apparently didn't sell as well as BioWare/EA no doubt hoped. Therefore, in my opinion, they should be glad when people tell them what they didn't like. Not that it has to be representative for everyone who didn't buy the game, but critical feedback isn't something they should ignore. No one expects them to defend every single flaw of ME 2, but if criticism is the reason for them not to participate (or at least reading some posts) in the forums, they aren't doing themselves a favor.

Modifié par bjdbwea, 21 janvier 2011 - 11:56 .

[Mr_Commander_Shepard]

Kane-Corr wrote...

Mr_Commander_Shepard wrote...

Stanley Woo wrote...

Mr_Commander_Shepard wrote...

Piecake wrote...

This place is not represenative of their fanbase, and most especially the gaming fanbase at large

I don't understand what your saying. If your saying that these forums don't represent their fan base then you are awfully wrong.

Consider that, even if 1 million people buy our game, we usually only have a couple hundred who post regularly. Even if we are generous and call it 10,000 who post regularly, that's 1% of Mass Effect players who post. One percent of the fanbase does not necessarily accurately represent the entire fanbase. And while the folks on here are given an inordinate amount of attention, we can and do gather feedback in other ways and from different groups of players.

Please check your math, Mr_Commander_Shepard.

I never did any math whatsoever. Does it really hurt to talk to the players who do take the time to come on to these forums to talk with you? We could just play the game then throw on the shelf and wait for ME3, but we obviously love the game more than that. We may be a small percent of everyone who actually plays but it doesn't mean we should get treated like this.

You just don't get it do you man? WE don't deserve anything. Bioware doesn't owe us anything! Just stick around and talk to other forum goers...WOW life isn't all about talking to the Devs about minute details that we will figure out eventually! They are making OUR FAVORITE GAME....the one that we talk about, laugh about, etc. So, why don't you chill man...your posts are still discouraging...your making it seem like Bioware is the bad guy...when in fact, you are committing the crime.

What do you mean we don't deserve anything. Without us they wouldn't make any money, and by us i mean everyone who has bought mass effect. With out us buying the game they couldn't exist. No matter what happens i am obviously gonna buy ME3.

[Mr_Commander_Shepard]

Ski Mask Wei wrote...

Mr_Commander_Shepard wrote...

Ski Mask Wei wrote...

Lumikki has the right idea. There's really no point for Bioware being on here arguing philosophy on rpg game design. It'd be like arguing progressive and conservative political views except one side has little to no power. People on here need to realize it's Bioware's game to make and they really don't owe us anything (not even a good game). The forums are not shareholders or some EA executive. The forums are not in some collaborative creation process with the developers. We are fans who (hopefully) buy their games, that's it. Our ultimate say in this process is our dollar powers but this is after the heavy lifting of making the game is done. This is how it should be. Nothing kills the creative process like making it feel like work; making something you don't really want to make. The best way this developer/fan thing goes is this: Bioware makes the games THEY want to make and hopefully the people buy and like them.

wrong. If i like cheese burgers but no else does, im not gonna sell them to people. im gonna ask people what they like and want. And then start from there.

Basically I'm saying there's a better chance of the game being good if they are doing what they want.  Bioware deserves the chance.  They've been winning at this game stuff for what?  Ten years now?  They've earned the right to trust their instincts . Let the market auto-correct them if they fail.

I also wouldn't compare creating food and selling it the public to creating art and selling it the public.  One is more complicated than the other but that's a discussion for another time.  

i used food because it was the first thing that popped into my head, horrible analogy i know lol