434 réponses à ce sujet

[Piecake]

bjdbwea wrote...

Mr_Commander_Shepard wrote...

You have no grasp on what i am talking about. Majority of the people on these forums are upset at the least with bioware. We just want to stop being ignored and get them somewhat involved with the community. We know they don't have to but it would be the right thing to do. Maybe they will start getting involved near ME3 but they're probably not gonna get a warm welcome if they wait that long.

I don't think it's the majority on these forums who are upset with BioWare. Usually, at this time after release, people who like the game are more likely to frequent the forums than people who don't. That said, ME 2 apparently didn't sell as well as BioWare/EA no doubt hoped. Therefore, in my opinion, they should be glad when people tell them what they didn't like. Not that it has to be representative for everyone who didn't buy the game, but critical feedback isn't something they should ignore. No one expects them to defend every single flaw of ME 2, but if criticism is the reason for them not to participate (or at least reading some posts) in the forums, they aren't doing themselves a favor.

Where do you get this from?

[Kane-Corr]

Mr_Commander_Shepard wrote...

What do you mean we don't deserve anything. Without us they wouldn't make any money, and by us i mean everyone who has bought mass effect. With out us buying the game they couldn't exist. No matter what happens i am obviously gonna buy ME3.

What I mean is this. We post on this forum...awesome. Bioware Developers post on this forum....MEGA AWESOME. But the fact remains, that they don't bend to our will, we bend to theirs. They are making a video game, and we're just along for the ride. It's like someone giving you a ride somewhere...it's a privelage. They don't have to do it, but they do, because they are kind, and they care. So next time you demand a Dev to come out and talk to you....think...just think...that your on THEIR time, not the other way around.

[Kane-Corr]

[quote]Piecake wrote...

I don't think it's the majority on these forums who are upset with BioWare. Usually, at this time after release, people who like the game are more likely to frequent the forums than people who don't. That said, ME 2 apparently didn't sell as well as BioWare/EA no doubt hoped. Therefore, in my opinion, they should be glad when people tell them what they didn't like. Not that it has to be representative for everyone who didn't buy the game, but critical feedback isn't something they should ignore. No one expects them to defend every single flaw of ME 2, but if criticism is the reason for them not to participate (or at least reading some posts) in the forums, they aren't doing themselves a favor.
[/quote]


[/quote]


yeah....Mass 2 exceeded their expectations...

Modifié par Kane-Corr, 22 janvier 2011 - 12:03 .

[Whereto]

Look at it this way:



If you were ever on the infinity forums for cod 6, pc. You know what it is to be ignored, for no one to care and for no dev to ever visit. When you come from a experience like that, where the game is beyond broken and the dev's can't spend a min of there day addressing you concerns on the salary you have payed them by buying their game, you know it's turn to ****. When I came here a year ago, sure the dev's participated more, but between not having much information and flaming idiots, why would you come here. I mean a god damn announcement, was turned into a pile of crap with something that wasn't even related in the slightest... Maybe if we or should I say some, were more civil, the dev's might want to come here.



All I can say is at least this isn't mw2 pc forums.... Now that's bad

[Da_Lion_Man]

Stanley Woo wrote...

Count Viceroy wrote...

Da_Lion_Man wrote...

I think the negativity is too strong for them and they stopped caring because some people are/were being unreasonable.
I don't blame them to be honest.

I think they need to grow a thicker skin then. Being what they are and what they do.

And on the other side of the coin, I think some folks need to learn how to speak to people online--not even customer-to-developer, but just plain, old-fashioned, well-reasonsed debate and discussion. Too many folks online believe that volume, frequency of posts, threats, and name-calling are valid substitute for courtesy and civility. If you wish to be treated fairly, then please do us the courtesy of treating us that way as well.

we have never stopped caring. The number of developers who participate in the community has always been small, particularly when their project has nothing to discuss yet.

I understand but still, I'm pretty sure you roll your eyes sometimes when reading some comments.

Not going to be hypocritical, I'm not an angel either. But I try to keep my mood under control.

[Lumikki]

Kane-Corr wrote...

Mr_Commander_Shepard wrote...

What do you mean we don't deserve anything. Without us they wouldn't make any money, and by us i mean everyone who has bought mass effect. With out us buying the game they couldn't exist. No matter what happens i am obviously gonna buy ME3.

What I mean is this. We post on this forum...awesome. Bioware Developers post on this forum....MEGA AWESOME. But the fact remains, that they don't bend to our will, we bend to theirs. They are making a video game, and we're just along for the ride. It's like someone giving you a ride somewhere...it's a privelage. They don't have to do it, but they do, because they are kind, and they care. So next time you demand a Dev to come out and talk to you....think...just think...that your on THEIR time, not the other way around.

Yeah, this is pretty much how it is.

Too many people here in this forum think like they own it, demanding developers attention, like we players are games main desiners. Judging everyting what Bioware is doing and think we as player can do better job. Forgeting that we customers here are lucky if developers even answer or listen us at all. Like sayed, it's a privelage, if they give us they time.

Untill the tune of forum change more respectful for Biowares work, I don't think many developers will want to be here. It's not about critism, it's about how it's sayed and what is sayed.

Modifié par Lumikki, 22 janvier 2011 - 12:14 .

[Kane-Corr]

I just can't wait until many of the veteran posters come back....that should bring some level headedness back here.

[Stanley Woo]

Whereto wrote...
where the game is beyond broken and the dev's can't spend a min of there day addressing you concerns on the salary you have payed them by buying their game,

Sorry to interrupt here, Whereto, but I wish people would quit using this as a justification for demanding things from developers, because it is not true. I, for example, am paid by my employer, BioWare. I am paid regardless of whether you buy the game or not. You, the person who buys the game, do not give money to me directly, nor are you automatically made a shareholder of the developer or the publisher. buying a product we offer for sale does not make you our boss. i just needed to clarify that. thank you.

[Stanley Woo]

Da_Lion_Man wrote...

I understand but still, I'm pretty sure you roll your eyes sometimes when reading some comments.

Sure I do. I'm human too, and so is every other developer who participates here. And as humans we tend to get emotional and have our breaking points, but we try not to let that show online. I don't always succeed.

[Drowsy0106]

Aha there is our proof! Volus are actually human midgets in disguise, i knew it all along!

[Ulzeraj]

Thats it. The guy just appeared to talk about community feedback and you started crying about inventories and characters. I would never blame them for not showing up here.

[Mr_Commander_Shepard]

Stanley Woo wrote...

Mr_Commander_Shepard wrote...

I never did any math whatsoever. Does it really hurt to talk to the players who do take the time to come on to these forums to talk with you? We could just play the game then throw on the shelf and wait for ME3, but we obviously love the game more than that. We may be a small percent of everyone who actually plays but it doesn't mean we should get treated like this.

Treated like what, Mr_Commander_Shepard. i've already listed at least a half-dozen developers (and did I mention Casey Hudson, who also posted a few times?) who regularly engaged the community in discussion. These developers talked about features in the game pre-release, polled the fanbase here to see how they played the game and what they liked, and writers even came in to chat up the community and everyone seemed to enjoy that, even if those developers didn't always agree with the fans.

Just because we don't come at your beck and call does not mean we are not listening, or that we do not talk on the forums. we have our own schedules and post on the forums when we feel like it. We are not slaves to your whims, as you seem to be implying. that much is not going to change, anyway.

I never said bioware has to do anything.  I never called you slaves. And how long ago are those posts you talk about? When i say treated like this  i am saying ignored. If i was wrong then this topic probably wouldn't exist. I don't think bioware is intentionally trying to make us mad, i think they just are plain ignoring all of  us

[Kane-Corr]

It's truly ridiculous...people need to wake up and realize that complaining never did any good....why not making an honest and positive RECOMMENDATION. Instead of saying...."I hate the inventory Bioware, do better!"



Why don't you say, "Hey, Bioware, I was thinking...maybe you can implement (this) instead of (this), and maybe sprinkle it with (that)."

[Mr_Commander_Shepard]

A nice place to start would be by answering the questions of the fans instead of just two BioWare employees talking about how awesome BioWare products are.

[Kane-Corr]

Mr_Commander_Shepard wrote...

Stanley Woo wrote...

Mr_Commander_Shepard wrote...

I never did any math whatsoever. Does it really hurt to talk to the players who do take the time to come on to these forums to talk with you? We could just play the game then throw on the shelf and wait for ME3, but we obviously love the game more than that. We may be a small percent of everyone who actually plays but it doesn't mean we should get treated like this.

Treated like what, Mr_Commander_Shepard. i've already listed at least a half-dozen developers (and did I mention Casey Hudson, who also posted a few times?) who regularly engaged the community in discussion. These developers talked about features in the game pre-release, polled the fanbase here to see how they played the game and what they liked, and writers even came in to chat up the community and everyone seemed to enjoy that, even if those developers didn't always agree with the fans.

Just because we don't come at your beck and call does not mean we are not listening, or that we do not talk on the forums. we have our own schedules and post on the forums when we feel like it. We are not slaves to your whims, as you seem to be implying. that much is not going to change, anyway.

I never said bioware has to do anything.  I never called you slaves. And how long ago are those posts you talk about? When i say treated like this  i am saying ignored. If i was wrong then this topic probably wouldn't exist. I don't think bioware is intentionally trying to make us mad, i think they just are plain ignoring all of  us

I suggest now that you stop arguing with a Dev...he IS right...why do I know? Because I've been here longer than you....I've seen the shifts, I've seen the good, the bad, AND ugly (Presently)....and trust me when I tell you...Devs care, they have a job to do, and finally, they are NOT ignoring us. Sift through the threads, go on a journey, and open your eyes...please...for the sake of ALL of us here in the community. This thread, and your responses, are being widely noted.

[Kane-Corr]

Mr_Commander_Shepard wrote...

A nice place to start would be by answering the questions of the fans instead of just two BioWare employees talking about how awesome BioWare products are.

Why don't you ask me....I've been here since Mass Effects birth, and I'd be glad to help. It's a community for a reason you know.

[didymos1120]

Mr_Commander_Shepard wrote...

A nice place to start would be by answering the questions of the fans instead of just two BioWare employees talking about how awesome BioWare products are.

Here, why don't you try this:

"Interesting podcast about the comic, but not really my cup of tea.  I think it'd be really cool if for the next one of these, you guys could do a Q&A kind of thing.  Maybe solicit submissions for questions from the forum, and then record the devs' answers.  Would something like that be possible?"


ETA:  Also, Stanley? Seriously: would such a thing be possible?  Obviously, questions like "Why do you hate Jesus and all things good and right, especially ME, Bioware?" are right out, but there are plenty of very common and rational questions/concerns/gripes that wouldn't require the equivalent of a weighty tome to respond to.  Hell, even just a text version would be cool.  Collect answers via email or whatever and then just post them here in an "Community Questions Answered" topic. 

Modifié par didymos1120, 22 janvier 2011 - 12:38 .

[Lumikki]

Mr_Commander_Shepard wrote...

A nice place to start would be by answering the questions of the fans instead of just two BioWare employees talking about how awesome BioWare products are.

You did it again here. *sniff*

Judging and demanding. It's all about how something is sayed.

Modifié par Lumikki, 22 janvier 2011 - 12:29 .

[Drowsy0106]

Mr_Commander_Shepard wrote...

A nice place to start would be by answering the questions of the fans instead of just two BioWare employees talking about how awesome BioWare products are.

Or, and i know this sounds crazy -- you could take a minute, breath, re-read your topic and try to absorb some of the responses and answers u've gotten already and maybe take them into consideration, or at least give them some thought. 

[Ulzeraj]

The funny thing is to think about how much Stanley is probably rechecking his messages to avoid inflamable double meanings. I don't blame him. I remember the Kalgan incident on the wow Warlock forums where he posted some joke about McRibs and that post became the most bloody and vicious flame war I ever saw on a forum.



ME{1,2} was a game not a service. My guess is that they are not required to attend the community everytime to check everything is ok or make changes on the product. We will have our time before the release of ME3 and that time will be the best time to be productive and offer constructive feedback for Mass Effect 3. Right now what some of you are doing is just ****ing and that makes us look bad.



Sorry for bad english. It is not my native language.

[Whereto]

Ok I should of phrased it differently, here is a better one:



When you have bought their game for $100 and considering its a pc game there is no return.



I'm not demanding anything of bioware, at least you guys released a game worth $100, but A certain dev team did not. When you are promised certain things and left alone to feasted in the dark 100 out of pocket, you really get edgy.



Also in a technicality if all of us didn't by your(bioware)product no one would get payed pasted what their contract stated, discounting any clauses etc. By us buying your game we keep you earning money, directly or not, all of us contribute to earnings. I know we don't own anything from bioware besides the copy of the game, but trying to keep us buying your games is the key of the game which you already know and the simple fact is that it is generally considered polite to fix the crap that was sold to us , but some dev's don't find this necessary. I would to point out the bad stuff isn't pointed at bioware, as they made a good game and support it, it is directed at certain developers

[morrie23]

A think a lot of this stems from the way characters have been treated. I for one was not too pleased with how Liara was portrayed in vanilla ME2, that combined with my general displeasure at the change in tone of ME2 meant that I was not particulary happy with BioWare. Obiviously, since LotSB my view has mellowed somewhat, but still not a massive fan of the direction that has been taken with this series. This perceived hostility is coming from how two characters in particular have been 'treated' and I have total sympathy with this. I hope the devs know (particularly Jesse Houston, who got some -undeserved- stick for his twitter post recently) that people care about the characters you've given us, but fans expect parity, which is not the case at the moment.

[Stanley Woo]

didymos1120 wrote...

Mr_Commander_Shepard wrote...

A nice place to start would be by answering the questions of the fans instead of just two BioWare employees talking about how awesome BioWare products are.

Here, why don't you try this:

"Interesting podcast about the comic, but not really my cup of tea.  I think it'd be really cool if for the next one of these, you guys could do a Q&A kind of thing.  Maybe solicit submissions for questions from the forum, and then record the devs' answers.  Would something like that be possible?"

To which an interested dev might reply: "hey, that's a neat idea. we did do something like this way back in the day when we had more time on the forums and the community was much, much smaller. We participated in dev chats on IRC, and kept a thread open on a project or two to do precisely this. Every week, we'd gather answers from interested developers and post a digest of questions and answers to keep them apprised of game features, lore concerns, and new systems. it didn't last very long, but the community seemed to like it.

The difficulty with something like this is finding someone with the time and gumption to gatherall the questions, vet them with project leads, gather the information, and create the answer posts every week or month or whatever. That's time spent away from doing your everyday job and actually working on the game, which is sometimes difficul to justify."

How'd I do? Also, I'm an atheist, but I doubt that's a reasonable subject for discussion in this thread.

Modifié par Stanley Woo, 22 janvier 2011 - 12:54 .

[Stanley Woo]

Whereto wrote...
When you have bought their game for $100 and considering its a pc game there is no return.

Except for you getting the game you have paid for and probably several dozen hours of playtime. for Dragon Age: Origins, that playtime could measurein the hundreds of hours. You also have the BioWare community, where you can discuss the game, storyline, combat strategies, and technical issues with hundreds of fellow gamers. I would hardly call that "no return."

Also in a technicality if all of us didn't by your(bioware)product no one would get payed pasted what their contract stated, discounting any clauses etc. By us buying your game we keep you earning money, directly or not, all of us contribute to earnings. I know we don't own anything from bioware besides the copy of the game, but trying to keep us buying your games is the key of the game which you already know and the simple fact is that it is generally considered polite to fix the crap that was sold to us , but some dev's don't find this necessary. I would to point out the bad stuff isn't pointed at bioware, as they made a good game and support it, it is directed at certain developers

Believe me, Whereto, that despite my sarcasm and sometimes snarkiness on this topic, i do understand the emotional reasoning behind the "i paid for the game, i want to be heard" feeling, and in and of itself there is nothing wrong with that. After all, that's what this community was dersigned to do. The issue comes when people are unwilling or unable to accept any disagreement, or will only listen to the "right" answer. At that point, no matter how politely worded, it ceases to become a critique or a suggestion or a request, and it becomes a demand. i've often said that, if you can accept a dissenting answer from us, then you've probably got the right attitude, because there's no way we'll always agree on everything. If you cannot accept us disagreeing with you, then please don't be surprised or offended if we end up doing something you don't like.

Thank you for clarifying, though. I appreciate it.