434 réponses à ce sujet

[aftohsix]

You want my honest opinion why they don't respond. The Mass Effect forums here are literally full of people who honestly seem to hate both Bioware and Mass Effect 2. They continually post the same topic for discussion over and over again about tiny nitpicky garbage without allowing themselves to enjoy the game for what it is. Most of you guys = this kid: watch

Modifié par aftohsix, 22 janvier 2011 - 01:19 .

[JaylaClark]

Okay, I just have to blindly drop my two cents in here:

I'm very appreciative towards David Gaider and crew for participating actively in the forums, even if I don't always like what he has to say.  (Specifically referring to the idea that there'll probably never be a same-sex-only love interest in a BioWare game due to the effort involved in writing a LI path for a character.  I understand, I just didn't like hearing it, even though it's true, the only time it'll ever happen is likely in a gender-locked story.  But I vastly digress.)  I felt like I had to make it clear that I understand, they don't have to do what they do and I'm glad they do.

Having said that, it's frustrating when the developers make a decision and don't discuss it, especially the controversial ones.  I know, there are Talimancers, Garrusphiles (and if this isn't the name, I genuinely apologize, Garrus fans), and even us Liarasexuals (© 2nd Liara Character Thread) that can seem intimidating to deal with.  And many of them  us are, because we're pretty passionate and focused individuals.  (I wouldn't be surprised if one or more of us took offense to Ali and Jen's spoken thought that the only reason Liara could romance female Shepard was because 'writers are men'.)  There are people attacking Liara because 'she's the developer's favorite!' now, when six months ago people I know found 'evidence' that 'Liara's going to be shunted to the side and paired up with Feron' in Redemption.  But a lot of this is because, without some feedback now and again, we don't really know what's going to happen to a game series we all, extremely, deeply, care passionately about.  And truth be told... we can barely guess at it.

And to cite something mentioned earlier, as I recall:  I know it seems like Mac Walters gets a lot of hate on these forums, but to tell you honestly, whenever I play a game that the main story is a detriment to the enjoyment of, yet I enjoy immensely overall -- and unlike some of my friends on BSN, I can genuinely use that descriptor 'immensely' -- there's a structural problem to the story of the game, to say the least.  And a lot of the problem is around the role of the Illusive Man and Cerberus in the plot, which to many people I've spoken to, and definitely myself, really makes little to no sense.  And yet the most recent podcast is about how people are 'fascinated' by the Illusive Man and how much we want to know about him.  

 


I really do not see a lot of TIM love in my travels on the forum, and those that do don't want to have the story explained so greatly, many of them;  so they're obviously a) getting this information from somewhere other than the fan forums that they run and  aren't listening to us ... consistently, anyway.  LotSB is the overwhelming exception that smashes up the rule to bits.  (Please forgive me if you think this counts as a spoiler, but given that Liara was all over the trailer, and I'm speaking in generalities...)  Even while complaining about animation differences, we got answers (and apologies) from Jesse Houston, but more to that, it was almost a Liara fan's dream, and ... it felt like LesEnfantsTerribles, General Stubbs, scmadsen and everyone currently or formerly in LDG wrote a bit of the story.  There was so much of it that was like our dreams for the DLC that I'd submit the first 900 pages of the second Liara Character Thread in a court of law as proof that the developers can and do visit the forums, and retain quite a lot of what they can glean from them inside the chaff of trolls and counter-trolls.

So why don't they talk to us?  I could swear that the most significant interaction I've seen in months was last night's Priestly-vs-Mys 'discussion' about skepticism about PS3 Mass Effect 2 being difficult to find.  There are a lot of disheartened VS fans out there wanting to know why their characters seem to be ignored, much like the Liara fans who outright lost hope mere weeks before LotSB.  Some people didn't even come back after that joyous occasion, because they'd had a confusing cameo, followed by an ambiguous comic, mixed in with Casey Hudson's kind of hilarious malapropisms about LiLi, that led the more paranoid to think that she was being eliminated by executive edict by EA.  So they missed out on the moment of joy, if not victory, that we all felt we'd been fighting for all this time.  They might not have even bought the DLC at all for all I know, they'd lost patience with BioWare altogether.

This will probably happen to more than a few Ash and Kaidan fans, frustrated beyond all belief that no one has made any assurances that their favorite character will receive fair treatment before ME3, or for that matter, any excuses as to why they won't.  And there's no reason for it.  Mac, Chris, Casey, someone could come on, ease fears, ignore trolls, and make the majority of us feel like BioWare's still a company that cares what we think about their games.

It's really not that much to ask, and we really would appreciate it.

[cachx]

aftohsix wrote...
... Most of you guys = this kid: watch

Slightly off-topic, but Red Shirt Guy is a goddamn superhero.

But seriously now, if I was a developer, I wouldn't really post here either. I would read a lot to know all the concerns and issues people may have, but start responding and trying to reason with people will not yield positive results.

[Kane-Corr]

People just don't have patience or respect anymore, and truthfully....unfortunately, that is the bottom line.

Seriously people, can't the developers leave SOME of the game for us to discover? Gosh. it's like pulling teeth in this thread.

[didymos1120]

Stanley Woo wrote...

The difficulty with something like this is finding someone with the time and gumption to gatherall the questions, vet them with project leads, gather the information, and create the answer posts every week or month or whatever. That's time spent away from doing your everyday job and actually working on the game, which is sometimes difficul to justify."

I wasn't talking like a weekly or even monthly thing.  More a "the next podcast" sort of thing. Or just an unspecified, future podcast.  Or as I said, a bunch of plain text posted in a forum topic. There doesn't have to be some strict timetable attached to it.  Hell, even a one-off, "no promises we're doing this again anytime soon" deal would be cool. And, out of curiosity, why wouldn't such a task be appropriate for, say, a Community Coordinator? 

Not that I'm expecting you to say "Yes.  We'll do that."  That's obviously not feasible.  But there's a whole hell of a lot of middle ground available.  It doesn't have to be a giant time sink that constantly eats dev time.

Modifié par didymos1120, 22 janvier 2011 - 01:46 .

[aftohsix]

cachx wrote...

aftohsix wrote...
... Most of you guys = this kid: watch

Slightly off-topic, but Red Shirt Guy is a goddamn superhero.

But seriously now, if I was a developer, I wouldn't really post here either. I would read a lot to know all the concerns and issues people may have, but start responding and trying to reason with people will not yield positive results.

I know the kid is hilarious but my point is that people are making mountains out of molehills and being total dicks to those of us here who disagree and acting like spoiled children to the people who worked 14 hours days for two years to make us the game.

Example I've discussed recently.  You never see Shepard poop.  One could argue this is just as immersion breaking as a mission complete screen or the addition of thermal clips to the game.

The other topic that I'd get sick of seeing if I were a developer is the full on panic mode ones.  Example:  I have a cough, therefore I have lung cancer.  Or in forum terms.  ME2 for PS3???  OUR CHOICES IN THE FIRST GAME DON'T MATTER!!!  Earth in the ME3 trailer??  Why is the game only set on Earth!!!!  The Reapers could have just flown here?  ME1 DOESN'T MATTER!!!  HUMAN REAPER!!!  That doesn't fit with any of the tiny amount of information we've been given about the Reapers.

Modifié par aftohsix, 22 janvier 2011 - 01:56 .

[Kane-Corr]

Exactly Benny, well, the example part haha. And also too, I think I can understand now where this has developed into an overblown mess.

Mass Effect has been rallying fairly new people to the party throughout time...and I honestly believe, that Bioware being generous and all....these people have been brought up to think that the Dev's should bend to their will/fulfill their satisfaction.
These people have abused Bioware's hospitality and friendliness. The Dev's were open enough to take suggestions from fans, but over time, it just wasn't enough for them.

Things evolved, info died down, no new news came, and now, people don't know what to talk about...so what next? Well, let's openly bash the Devs now, because they're not here anymore!
Well guess what people, they DO hear you. But may I be the one to tell you, or rather ask you, to stop? Why don't we just make this a positive experience for everyone? Because back in the day, believe it or not, the majority of people actually appreciated Bioware and Mass Effect.

Modifié par Kane-Corr, 22 janvier 2011 - 01:58 .

[JaylaClark]

@Mash



Well, it's been my opinion (I think I said it just now) that the master plan is somewhat flawed, seeing as I found the game most enjoyable when it deviated from the main storyline. I'm willing to agree to disagree on this with whomever does, though, especially the devs, because some people loved the main story without a single problem with it, and unless they're Sole Survivor Shepard's I won't dispute a thing with them.



And you're probably right about some of the wildest-dreams and complaint-resolution being not in the best interest of the game. (I actually like the inventory in ME1 for the PC, is a quick example, the solution that ME2 presented was unnecessary.) But when they did it with Lair of the Shadow Broker, I cried at the end. I have never done that because of a video game. (I never played FF 7 or in fact any Final Fantasy game; I've been told that this would not be a singular achievement if I'd at least played the former... but that's neither here nor there.) Maybe catering to our every whim is not the answer, but making us happy is, isn't it? (And by the way, yes, I'm saying Lair got robbed at the VGAs. It's my favorite gameplay experience of the past five years.)



I've thought of a few likely reasons why the VS crew haven't been in DLC yet (unavailability of VOs, saving for third game, stumped for creativity) but I'd prefer to see someone at least allay some fears by now.



@aftohsix



The opening comic has rather few choices that we've confirmed carry over to ME2 from ME1, and some of us kind of get worried that they'll skimp on said choices' impacts if not everyone can influence them. Plus, I didn't get that impression from the trailer, but that's again neither here nor there.

[Jaron Oberyn]

cachx wrote...

aftohsix wrote...
... Most of you guys = this kid: watch

Slightly off-topic, but Red Shirt Guy is a goddamn superhero.

But seriously now, if I was a developer, I wouldn't really post here either. I would read a lot to know all the concerns and issues people may have, but start responding and trying to reason with people will not yield positive results.

Not necessarily true. When I was part of a mod for UT3, the fan interaction was essential to the project. We were making it not only for ourselves, but for other people. We wanted to know what interested them, what aspects they'd like to see in it, etc... Our developers discussed the mod with the fans through our forum. It worked pretty well. But maybe that's just because it wasn't an established title. I'm just trying to relate. To me, it was hard keeping stuff from the fans because I always wanted to show new stuff. I imagine Bioware's the same way. It's not like they're hiding in the corner every night and laughing to themselves, "Yes! Another day without ME3 information!" or anything. I'm sure they're excited to show off more stuff, and probably even interact with the fans. But apparently the timing isn't right for either of the two. Let's just give it some time. And also, remember to treat a developer with respect if you happen to come across one. You wouldn't trash talk your waitress at a McDonalds and expect an untampered meal now would you? 


-Polite

[morrie23]

Sorry, but when you build a game that is based on its component characters and leave some out, people are bound to be upset. You might have got everything out of ME2 you wanted to, but others didn't. I don't agree with bashing the devs, but if this is a truely new phenomenom, then it stems from the choices they made in the development of ME2 and subsequent content (minus the as yet unknown last piece of DLC). People want parity, maybe they the can demand it, maybe they can't, but the fact remains that a group of (I bet loyal) fans feel neglected.

Modifié par morrie23, 22 janvier 2011 - 02:14 .

[Aeowyn]

Because the devs really have no obligations to post on these forums? Sure they're active on the DAII forums but how often do you see them post in the DAO - section?

[Mr_Commander_Shepard]

@Jayla Clark

Well said, thats exactly how i feel..

[Nohvarr]

Your wishes, as have been repeatedly stated, are noted. However there's no need for them to come onto this forum and talk with the fans. It's something they do on their own free time when they can, when they have something they can talk about, and if they desire too. You can say that you'd like someone to calm your fears, but how can they do that? What can they promise you, or provide you that would assure you and other like you that your desires will be met?

They can't talk about the games plot this early on, it's supposed to be a surprise afterall. Same with the characters.

They can't promise you'll like how they've handled the characters. They can point to their track record as well as the number of people who have enjoyed both games and their characterizations. But that dosen't mean you'll like it.

Honestly, even on the DA 2 forums it get's a little silly when "fans" have knee jerk reactions to news they don't like. Nothing Bioware does will make everyone happy, so someone is always complaining about how this decision has 'ruined the game forever'.

There's a point when a person get's tired of it. I used to post on this form a lot more but eventually got sick of the attitudes I began to see more and more. I still recall a guy on the DA:O forums complaining about the lack of multiplayer after the game came out. He furiously argued that he'd been hoodwinked as he'd assumed it would be like Neverwinter Nights.

On the ME forums a number of people were up in arms over Bioware's 'Betrayl' of their favorite character. Or that they obviously didn't know what they were doing because of game play changes, and that Bioware would pay when the fans rose up.

Now ME 2's sitting on a frankly surprising number of awards, and those people are either silent or using the 'well it was a slow gaming year' excuse.

In general, fans reap what they sow. If you treat the devs poorly, demand they make changes or apologize for something and then get uppity when they don't...you really shouldn't be surprised if they don't place the same priority on answering your questions or talking with you that they once did.

Modifié par Nohvarr, 22 janvier 2011 - 02:26 .

[didymos1120]

Bennyjammin79 wrote...

Jesse Houstons Big Work Project,

Yeah, the way people behaved about that one was just fantastic.  Thanks to the antics on that thread, he's no longer going to post about work stuff on twitter, and that of course includes not answering questions. 

Modifié par didymos1120, 22 janvier 2011 - 02:32 .

[Mr_Commander_Shepard]

Every one knows that we don't own BioWare and we don't expect them to do as we say. But we do expect them to talk with us sometimes. Some people keep bringing up the fact that they did so many months ago, well that was good, but that was a while ago. They have the right to do as they want. But for them to not want to is just wrong. If they don't want to talk to us until ME3 draws near then we think that they should at LEAST tell us that.

[Nohvarr]

And you can think what you want, but they have no obligation, requirment, need or compulsion to conform to your schedule.

[Mr_Commander_Shepard]

Nohvarr wrote...

And you can think what you want, but they have no obligation, requirment, need or compulsion to conform to your schedule.

I just said that...

[Kane-Corr]

Exactly what Nohvarr said above me ^





It is a privelage for us to discuss and/or read what the Devs have to say.

Why you don't understand that Mr_Commander_Shepard is beyond me, and many other forumites here.

[Gibb_Shepard]

didymos1120 wrote...

Bennyjammin79 wrote...

Jesse Houstons Big Work Project,

Yeah, the way people behaved about that one was just fantastic.  Thanks to the antics on that thread, he's no longer going to post about work stuff on twitter, and that of course includes not answering questions. 

What happened in that thread?

[Mr_Commander_Shepard]

Kane-Corr wrote...

Exactly what Nohvarr said above me ^


It is a privelage for us to discuss and/or read what the Devs have to say.
Why you don't understand that Mr_Commander_Shepard is beyond me, and many other forumites here.

Why do you get so mad? Sounds personal to you.

[Kane-Corr]

Mr_Commander_Shepard wrote...

Nohvarr wrote...

And you can think what you want, but they have no obligation, requirment, need or compulsion to conform to your schedule.

I just said that...

Listen man, you are getting really annoying now, so I'm just going to deem you a troll. That will be that.