214 réponses à ce sujet

[moilami]

rynluna wrote...

I'm all woman, hear me rawr.

I am all ear. And support of Women Empowerement Movement too!

[earthbornFemShep]

Spartas Husky wrote...

earthbornFemShep wrote...

I'm female

never understood why we refer to ourselves like that... I am male... I am female. So formal... I feel in biology class all over again.
 

I prefer it to: chick, lady, woman, gal, chica, girl, madam, etc.  With each of those words there are certain connotations to them.  I chose to say "female" because of it simply refers to my gender and not my age. 

[Spartas Husky]

earthbornFemShep wrote...

Spartas Husky wrote...

earthbornFemShep wrote...

I'm female

never understood why we refer to ourselves like that... I am male... I am female. So formal... I feel in biology class all over again.
 

I prefer it to: chick, lady, woman, gal, chica, girl, madam, etc.  With each of those words there are certain connotations to them.  I chose to say "female" because of it simply refers to my gender and not my age. 

...Maybe I am lacking context of your surroundings or where you hear them but... from where i've been... the only one who is different is madam.  Aside from the aforementioned the rest are used losely to refer to a woman of any given gender... again might just be differnt environment down at Florida.

Come to think of it... I dont think I have ever heard anyone use madam aside from the show "las vegas"...lol

[PauseforEffect]

I raise my hand as a female paragon Vanguard. It was nice to pair up Shepard to a long time friend like Garrus, but I'm glad they kept it strictly sideline. Combat's far more interesting.

[moilami]

Deathwurm wrote...

I'm 45 and I've been Gaming since WAY before it was cool and long before Computer Gaming...
Out of everything I've seen as Gaming has evolved over the Years, I think Women getting more into Gaming is the best thing that's ever happened.
It's broadened the Scope and Focus of Games themselves and it's allowed Women to become an accepted part of what long ago (30+ years ago) was a "Boys' Club" where Women were only considered "placeables" to add realism.
Women have always been as capable of Men when it comes to Gaming...I'm really happy that they have become participants on equal footing and are no longer marginalized into a position of playing Games about Hairdressers and Fashion (there's nothing wrong with those if that's what you want to play...but it's nice Women have broader choices)

I haven't been on gaming that long, and I really don't understand what you speak. I haven't myself ever seen "no women allowed" movements anywhere regarding gaming. This is why I am asking can you seriously and objectively stand behind your words?

[Spartas Husky]

moilami wrote...

Deathwurm wrote...

I'm 45 and I've been Gaming since WAY before it was cool and long before Computer Gaming...
Out of everything I've seen as Gaming has evolved over the Years, I think Women getting more into Gaming is the best thing that's ever happened.
It's broadened the Scope and Focus of Games themselves and it's allowed Women to become an accepted part of what long ago (30+ years ago) was a "Boys' Club" where Women were only considered "placeables" to add realism.
Women have always been as capable of Men when it comes to Gaming...I'm really happy that they have become participants on equal footing and are no longer marginalized into a position of playing Games about Hairdressers and Fashion (there's nothing wrong with those if that's what you want to play...but it's nice Women have broader choices)

I haven't been on gaming that long, and I really don't understand what you speak. I haven't myself ever seen "no women allowed" movements anywhere regarding gaming. This is why I am asking can you seriously and objectively stand behind your words?

I think what he/she refers to is that before games weren't made to also appeal to the women gamers. I think thats what it was ment in a less.... agressive way

[moilami]

Spartas Husky wrote...

moilami wrote...

Deathwurm wrote...

I'm 45 and I've been Gaming since WAY before it was cool and long before Computer Gaming...
Out of everything I've seen as Gaming has evolved over the Years, I think Women getting more into Gaming is the best thing that's ever happened.
It's broadened the Scope and Focus of Games themselves and it's allowed Women to become an accepted part of what long ago (30+ years ago) was a "Boys' Club" where Women were only considered "placeables" to add realism.
Women have always been as capable of Men when it comes to Gaming...I'm really happy that they have become participants on equal footing and are no longer marginalized into a position of playing Games about Hairdressers and Fashion (there's nothing wrong with those if that's what you want to play...but it's nice Women have broader choices)

I haven't been on gaming that long, and I really don't understand what you speak. I haven't myself ever seen "no women allowed" movements anywhere regarding gaming. This is why I am asking can you seriously and objectively stand behind your words?

I think what he/she refers to is that before games weren't made to also appeal to the women gamers. I think thats what it was ment in a less.... agressive way

Oh, so men were again cheated to be guilty of en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supply_and_demand

[Spartas Husky]

moilami wrote...

Spartas Husky wrote...

moilami wrote...

Deathwurm wrote...

I'm 45 and I've been Gaming since WAY before it was cool and long before Computer Gaming...
Out of everything I've seen as Gaming has evolved over the Years, I think Women getting more into Gaming is the best thing that's ever happened.
It's broadened the Scope and Focus of Games themselves and it's allowed Women to become an accepted part of what long ago (30+ years ago) was a "Boys' Club" where Women were only considered "placeables" to add realism.
Women have always been as capable of Men when it comes to Gaming...I'm really happy that they have become participants on equal footing and are no longer marginalized into a position of playing Games about Hairdressers and Fashion (there's nothing wrong with those if that's what you want to play...but it's nice Women have broader choices)

I haven't been on gaming that long, and I really don't understand what you speak. I haven't myself ever seen "no women allowed" movements anywhere regarding gaming. This is why I am asking can you seriously and objectively stand behind your words?

I think what he/she refers to is that before games weren't made to also appeal to the women gamers. I think thats what it was ment in a less.... agressive way

Oh, so men were again cheated to be guilty of en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supply_and_demand

I dont know I am just making a suggestion as to what he or she ment lol

[moilami]

jeweledleah wrote...

fave cosplay of ME. so sad that they didn't win best in show, I personally think they should have. the level of details is just unbelievable..



/butts out again

Tani (word?) costume was awesome! They should had put a comp terminal there too what she would had begun to use after securing the area.

Will have to now play some ME!


Edit: Yay, got the first barter after the beginning. She though pissed me big time, but no probs, I can run to next one and say "x" was annoying xD

Finally some progress! Now this begins to be interesting again to listen what the crew have to say

Modifié par moilami, 21 janvier 2011 - 08:04 .

[Milana_Saros]

Reikilea wrote...

But sad thing is, considering all my fellow gamer friends I am only one addicted to Mass Effect or Dragon age. At least this much. But yeah, there is not many girls who I know, who would play something else than Sims.

I'm kinda on the same boat. My (female) friend only plays WoW *sigh*

This one time I was drinking with my friend and wanted to show her some funny ME vids. I showed her the "Shepard is a jerk" and "Shepard is still a jerk" vids and laughed...while she was sitting next to me, looking at me like "There supposed to be something funny about that?" <_<

I've been struggling with finding games to keep me busy until DA2 comes and I almost succumbed back into the black hole of endless, mind numbing WoW-grind but luckily I stumbled upon Torchlight.

It's sometimes hard when people around you all go wow wow wow wow like there are no other games in this world. My fiancé for starters would propably love ME2 but "that's not my kinda game with all the talking stuff in it". Bah. I regret the day I put my finger on an MMO.

Oh how I miss scaring the crap out of people as an Alien in AvP LAN games.

moilami wrote...

I haven't myself ever seen "no women
allowed" movements anywhere regarding gaming.

Well this was pretty much clarified earlier but the whole "no women allowed" atmosphere WAS indeed there. Used to play Quake on LAN with classmates when I was in secondary school. End result was that only 2 of them kept playing with me because the other didn't want to play with me anymore (translation = didn't want to get their ass kicked by a girl). Same thing happened later, during a summer gaming "club", the guys wouldn't play Delta Force with me. Apparently a girl sniping people is a lame ass cheater but when a guy does it, it's super cool.

My brother and his friends never had a problem with me playing with them on LAN. Hell, they even forced me to play Diablo 2 with them until dawn even if I was super tired

So yeah, it was case dependant I guess but it was there, at least still during the 90´s. I still see "go play HelloKitty Adventures" comments in MMOs from time to time but usually this is directed at female gamers who demand special or more tolerant treatment because of their gender *shudder*

Modifié par Milana_Saros, 21 janvier 2011 - 08:18 .

[moilami]

Milana_Saros wrote...

moilami wrote...

I haven't myself ever seen "no women
allowed" movements anywhere regarding gaming.

Well this was pretty much clarified earlier but the whole "no women allowed" atmosphere WAS indeed there. Used to play Quake on LAN with classmates when I was in secondary school. End result was that only 2 of them kept playing with me because the other didn't want to play with me anymore (translation = didn't want to get their ass kicked by a girl). Same thing happened later, during a summer gaming "club", the guys wouldn't play Delta Force with me. Apparently a girl sniping people is a lame ass cheater but when a guy does it, it's super cool.

My brother and his friends never had a problem with me playing with them on LAN. Hell, they even forced me to play Diablo 2 with them until dawn even if I was super tired

So yeah, it was case dependant I guess but it was there, at least still during the 90´s. I still see "go play HelloKitty Adventures" comments in MMOs from time to time but usually this is directed at female gamers who demand special or more tolerant treatment because of their gender *shudder*

Secondary school? Is that the place where girls and boys hate each other, as the story goes? The place where immature kids gather? The place where boys say girls are stupid and girls say boys are stupid?

I am glad you understand that if some random female gets a rude comment in MMORPG I think maybe 5 random males before and after it got a rude comment.

The overal athmosphere is not very friendly in Internet, and in WoW it is more bitter than anywhere else I have seen. I personally think this has much to do about the shock females face when in Internet they suddenly are treated equally and not like some princesses with special rights.


Edit: (Not dissing your experiences, and thanks of your comment.)

Modifié par moilami, 21 janvier 2011 - 09:24 .

[Deathwurm]

moilami wrote...

Deathwurm wrote...

I'm 45 and I've been Gaming since WAY before it was cool and long before Computer Gaming...
Out of everything I've seen as Gaming has evolved over the Years, I think Women getting more into Gaming is the best thing that's ever happened.
It's broadened the Scope and Focus of Games themselves and it's allowed Women to become an accepted part of what long ago (30+ years ago) was a "Boys' Club" where Women were only considered "placeables" to add realism.
Women have always been as capable of Men when it comes to Gaming...I'm really happy that they have become participants on equal footing and are no longer marginalized into a position of playing Games about Hairdressers and Fashion (there's nothing wrong with those if that's what you want to play...but it's nice Women have broader choices)

I haven't been on gaming that long, and I really don't understand what you speak. I haven't myself ever seen "no women allowed" movements anywhere regarding gaming. This is why I am asking can you seriously and objectively stand behind your words?

Seems I need to clarify what was meant to be a Post about how excited I am that Women are into Gaming nowadays...

I began Gaming at the age of 13...if you do the Math that was 32 years ago.
The most exciting innovention in Gaming at that time was the introduction of the Advanced Dungeons and Dragons Rules...if you don't count "Pong", that is.
Other than that, if you wanted to play anything more than a standard Board Game, the only other choices were War-related Games using Paper Hexagonal Maps and cardboard chits to represent your Units. Almost all these Games were based on Historic Battle Scenarios and extremely dry at their best.
If you were a guy and played these Games you were considered a Nerd and this was long before the term "Nerd" had any positive connotations. If you were a Woman and wanted to play these Games, you were considered an outright freak of Nature!
These were implicit Social conventions...not explcit "Women can't Play" Rules.
Even in Dungeons and Dragons, female Player Characters were rare in a Group and their role in the Game was mostly confined to Creatures that are Traditionally Female (a Succubus is the example that comes to my mind)
Since that time, Women have made amazing advances in Society in all areas that they never should have had to fight for in the first place...they are no longer expected to "stay at Home", they are paid more than they used to be paid for Working (and still...2nd Decade into the 21st Century they usualy aren't paid equal to their Male counterparts in the workplace), here in the U.S. we've just had the 1st viable Female Candidate for the Presidency...I could go on, but I hope you're getting the idea.
When it comes to Gaming, Women are now essential to the Market...Developers finally realize that not including 51% of the Population is Free-Market Suicide.
This has lead to a great change and increase of Depth to what is included in good Games. Let's face it Gentlemen...left on our own, most Games would be ridiculous Kill-Fests designed to cater to our predominantly Violent Nature with almost no Story.
Are some of the things I'm saying Generalizations? Yes...of course they are. Every individual is different...that has never changed.
I Love and Respect Women...I always have. I am excited that Women are not only playing Games and playing them Darned Well, I am excited that they are Developing and Programming them. They have added the Yin to the Yang and things are better for it.
I urge those of you, both Male and Female who aren't familiar with how different thing used to be to take a look at some things from the 1970's and see just how different things really are now.
I hope that Clarifies things a bit & if not...to make it simple: Gaming is better because of all the terrific Women Gamers out there!

[jeweledleah]

Milana_Saros wrote...

Reikilea wrote...

But sad thing is, considering all my fellow gamer friends I am only one addicted to Mass Effect or Dragon age. At least this much. But yeah, there is not many girls who I know, who would play something else than Sims.

I'm kinda on the same boat. My (female) friend only plays WoW *sigh*

This one time I was drinking with my friend and wanted to show her some funny ME vids. I showed her the "Shepard is a jerk" and "Shepard is still a jerk" vids and laughed...while she was sitting next to me, looking at me like "There supposed to be something funny about that?" <_<

I've been struggling with finding games to keep me busy until DA2 comes and I almost succumbed back into the black hole of endless, mind numbing WoW-grind but luckily I stumbled upon Torchlight.

It's sometimes hard when people around you all go wow wow wow wow like there are no other games in this world. My fiancé for starters would propably love ME2 but "that's not my kinda game with all the talking stuff in it". Bah. I regret the day I put my finger on an MMO.

Oh how I miss scaring the crap out of people as an Alien in AvP LAN games.

moilami wrote...

I haven't myself ever seen "no women
allowed" movements anywhere regarding gaming.

Well this was pretty much clarified earlier but the whole "no women allowed" atmosphere WAS indeed there. Used to play Quake on LAN with classmates when I was in secondary school. End result was that only 2 of them kept playing with me because the other didn't want to play with me anymore (translation = didn't want to get their ass kicked by a girl). Same thing happened later, during a summer gaming "club", the guys wouldn't play Delta Force with me. Apparently a girl sniping people is a lame ass cheater but when a guy does it, it's super cool.

My brother and his friends never had a problem with me playing with them on LAN. Hell, they even forced me to play Diablo 2 with them until dawn even if I was super tired

So yeah, it was case dependant I guess but it was there, at least still during the 90´s. I still see "go play HelloKitty Adventures" comments in MMOs from time to time but usually this is directed at female gamers who demand special or more tolerant treatment because of their gender *shudder*

that is so sad   those jerk vids are belly achingly awesome

I used to be all about WoW barely touching other games for a while, even raided hardcore for a bit  (I started at the tail end of BC, so the furthest I got there was 3 out of 4 timed chests in ZA, but I did get  Bane of the fallen king and Herald of the titans   ) but then I just got sick and tired of railroading developers (you think ME2 is on rails??? you have seen nothing yet) changes for the sake of change, horribly toxic community and started looking at other games again a bit more.  thank goodness I did.

MMO's are not all bad, I still play Lotro and occasioanly stumble into Allods, but yeah..I missed single player games, didn't even realize just how much.  I feel lucky, becasue I never had to deal with any sort of prejudice against female gamers.  hubby courted me by landing me his copy of heroes of might and magic (1 and 2) and teaching me how to play original doom a bit better (lol, our very first marital argument was over computer usage, specificaly Magic the gathering - man that game was addictive. ever since then, we always had 2 computers  ).  Before I could afford to have a personal computer, I used to sit alongside my classmates and play "Indiana Jones and fate of atlantis", or hang out at friends house, shooting ****s in original Wolfenstein.

Never felt that games were female unfriendly, I'd rather think that newer games are generaly geared towards wider audiences, male or female, more accessible, easier to learn (which doesn't equal dumbed down, btw).  Althought Myst  and its sequels, I think were pretty gender neutral.  and pretty challenging.

P.S.  before there were computer games, I used to tag along with some guys i na yard to their war games.  they were resistant, but I bullied them towards my way of thinking   although..I gew up in a country where female ideal was a tough strong woman capable of hauling around rails, running into burning building to save whoever is inside, and generaly be equal to any man.  definitely lucky

Modifié par jeweledleah, 21 janvier 2011 - 09:33 .

[moilami]

Deathwurm wrote...

moilami wrote...

Deathwurm wrote...

I'm 45 and I've been Gaming since WAY before it was cool and long before Computer Gaming...
Out of everything I've seen as Gaming has evolved over the Years, I think Women getting more into Gaming is the best thing that's ever happened.
It's broadened the Scope and Focus of Games themselves and it's allowed Women to become an accepted part of what long ago (30+ years ago) was a "Boys' Club" where Women were only considered "placeables" to add realism.
Women have always been as capable of Men when it comes to Gaming...I'm really happy that they have become participants on equal footing and are no longer marginalized into a position of playing Games about Hairdressers and Fashion (there's nothing wrong with those if that's what you want to play...but it's nice Women have broader choices)

I haven't been on gaming that long, and I really don't understand what you speak. I haven't myself ever seen "no women allowed" movements anywhere regarding gaming. This is why I am asking can you seriously and objectively stand behind your words?

Seems I need to clarify what was meant to be a Post about how excited I am that Women are into Gaming nowadays...

I began Gaming at the age of 13...if you do the Math that was 32 years ago.
The most exciting innovention in Gaming at that time was the introduction of the Advanced Dungeons and Dragons Rules...if you don't count "Pong", that is.
Other than that, if you wanted to play anything more than a standard Board Game, the only other choices were War-related Games using Paper Hexagonal Maps and cardboard chits to represent your Units. Almost all these Games were based on Historic Battle Scenarios and extremely dry at their best.
If you were a guy and played these Games you were considered a Nerd and this was long before the term "Nerd" had any positive connotations. If you were a Woman and wanted to play these Games, you were considered an outright freak of Nature!
These were implicit Social conventions...not explcit "Women can't Play" Rules.
Even in Dungeons and Dragons, female Player Characters were rare in a Group and their role in the Game was mostly confined to Creatures that are Traditionally Female (a Succubus is the example that comes to my mind)
Since that time, Women have made amazing advances in Society in all areas that they never should have had to fight for in the first place...they are no longer expected to "stay at Home", they are paid more than they used to be paid for Working (and still...2nd Decade into the 21st Century they usualy aren't paid equal to their Male counterparts in the workplace), here in the U.S. we've just had the 1st viable Female Candidate for the Presidency...I could go on, but I hope you're getting the idea.
When it comes to Gaming, Women are now essential to the Market...Developers finally realize that not including 51% of the Population is Free-Market Suicide.
This has lead to a great change and increase of Depth to what is included in good Games. Let's face it Gentlemen...left on our own, most Games would be ridiculous Kill-Fests designed to cater to our predominantly Violent Nature with almost no Story.
Are some of the things I'm saying Generalizations? Yes...of course they are. Every individual is different...that has never changed.
I Love and Respect Women...I always have. I am excited that Women are not only playing Games and playing them Darned Well, I am excited that they are Developing and Programming them. They have added the Yin to the Yang and things are better for it.
I urge those of you, both Male and Female who aren't familiar with how different thing used to be to take a look at some things from the 1970's and see just how different things really are now.
I hope that Clarifies things a bit & if not...to make it simple: Gaming is better because of all the terrific Women Gamers out there!

First, it would be appreciated if you would not begin to bring examples from other areas than gaming when I asked gaming related examples. I am not uneducated. You don't need to tell me how there was time when women were not allowed to wear miniskirts (and men had to wear tuxedo) when I ask about gaming related examples.

During late '80, when I was a kid/teenager, I had friends working in local comp game shop and spent a lot of time there testing every interesting game and so on. It was before Internet shopping and mail order shopping. I saw thousands of customers. But guess what? I can't remember seeing any woman there. Ever. And especially I did not see any teenager chick because that I would for sure remember, it would had been so rare occurrance that we would had discussed and fantasised a week about it or more (lol). Many of my friends had computers, but I did not know a single female who would had computer (and I knew many females). And guess even more. I can't imagine asking any females I knew if they would come with me visit the comp game shop. It would had been something in the bottom in the list of all possible things I could ask them.

(About those tabletop wargames I by the way disagree. It is very subjective. I played them with friends because they were superior multiplayer strategy games, and nothing but "dry". Tabletop RPing games we played also, but not with chicks, and if I wanted something I would had wanted any of those chicks I knew join us. Yet again I can't know how I could had even ask such thing. I could had asked "lets go take a walk in X, and many would had said "okay", but to ask "would you join me and X,Y,Z and play some Rolemaster, HAHAHAAAAH, hell no way.)

The quality of games (more specifically graphics) has developed gradually with the computers, and I can't see how women finally stopping looking down at gamers would had made games any better. One thing I have noticed to change and of what I blame females is this:



No more sexy fantasy girl cover art! Boob nerfs. Beginning of 1900 century dress codes for females. F* u.


Edit: This is by the way the first comp game I remember having a romance:



BioWare never invented romances in comp games, and I didn't knew a single female gamer when that game was released.

(Now back to ME and later back here to LOL what kind of names of me has been invented and how my personality has been described, and how I know nothing of anything and talk only nonsense.)

Modifié par moilami, 21 janvier 2011 - 10:28 .

[MsKlaussen]

Also a woman and avid gamer. I don't know if it makes me a geek but I've been gaming since Santa Paravia, Zork and Wizardry. I'm also a programmer and database architect so I guess there are several more things that women supposedly don't do that we in fact, do.

I like many different genres but I've been most loyal over the years to UT, Ultima, and the Elder Scrolls, and now the Mass Effect series. I guess I have a thing for RPGs and fantasy mostly, since I was a big D&D and Michael Moorcock fan too, and if a story's not happening in a medieval setting, it better be happening in space for me.

I've played both ME1 and ME2, several times and gotten all of the DLC stories and such. I did most of my playthroughs, including my canon, as Paragon, although later ones have gotten more and more renegade as they've gone. I always play as a woman. Not just here but in all my RPGs I guess because I've seen enough stereotypical Duke Nukems as protagonists to think mine will be a breakthrough.

I did like the romance options. They were a surprise so not obviously something I required because I didn't know what to expect from MA but once  had gotten involved in my relationship with Liara I had a need for that relationship to be dealt with well. I've not strayed at all (although something with Kaidan in ME1 or Miranda in ME2 was considered). I'm also playing my current playthrough for the first time without being a Vanguard (an Infiltrator this time). Fun, but frustrating when enemies come too close in bunches (like husks). I miss Charge, Pull, and my shotgun!

I'm not posting from home now so I don't have my Shep's pic. Maybe later 

Modifié par MsKlaussen, 21 janvier 2011 - 10:33 .

[J4N3_M3]

ignoranus: when someone is not only dumb but also an asshole xD

@Deathwurm: and yes, I agree. Still, women have a hard time working in IT. I can only speak for myself here though and my every day experience. Telling a network administrator how he has to setup his sql server installation is a pain in the backside. when my boss tells him the same, it's of course correct because my boss is male, while I am not. We've come a long way but still have the same long way ahead of us....

[ciaweth]

Add another female gamer to the tally. My mainShep is a female paragon, my current playthrough is a female renegade.

[moilami]

J4N3_M3 wrote...

@Deathwurm: and yes, I agree. Still, women have a hard time working in IT. I can only speak for myself here though and my every day experience. Telling a network administrator how he has to setup his sql server installation is a pain in the backside. when my boss tells him the same, it's of course correct because my boss is male, while I am not. We've come a long way but still have the same long way ahead of us....

Oh, someone dares to listen his BOSS instead of lady princess? Someone dares to disagree with you? Huh, that can only happen to females, males never experience anything like that!

J4N3_M3 wrote...
ignoranus: when someone is not only dumb but also an asshole xD

QFT.

Take a look.

[Deathwurm]

@ moilami:

I didn't mean to talk down to you in any way...

You asked me if I could "seriously and objectively" stand behind my words...I believe I did that and I'm sorry if I used broader examples from the real world to do so...

You do seem; based on replies to other posters, to be just looking for an argument...that's fine.

I used the term "Boys' Club" in a non-literal sense.

[Legbiter]

Chicks don't play computer games. They're down at the pub. Gamer grrrls is just another name for broodmothers.

[J4N3_M3]

@Moilami: learn to speak this language properly before starting arguments with people. then you may reach my level if you stand on your toes.

[moilami]

Deathwurm wrote...

@ moilami:
I didn't mean to talk down to you in any way...
You asked me if I could "seriously and objectively" stand behind my words...I believe I did that and I'm sorry if I used broader examples from the real world to do so...
You do seem; based on replies to other posters, to be just looking for an argument...that's fine.
I used the term "Boys' Club" in a non-literal sense.

I thank you, I was interested to know can you tell me something I don't know.

[moilami]

J4N3_M3 wrote...

@Moilami: learn to speak this language properly before starting arguments with people. then you may reach my level if you stand on your toes.

Will you get mad at me if I don't do what lady princess say?

[Count Viceroy]

Why is this thread 8 pages long, geeze.

[J4N3_M3]

moilami wrote...

J4N3_M3 wrote...

@Moilami: learn to speak this language properly before starting arguments with people. then you may reach my level if you stand on your toes.

Will you get mad at me if I don't do what lady princess say?

did you say something? i thought i heard a grunt from your corner...