21 réponses à ce sujet

[Clyordes]

Hi folks,

Wasn't sure where to post this, as its about a mod I'm building, but I want people who purely play Neverwinter (not builders) to reply.

Does anyone have a preference over which style of conversations they prefer:
NWN1 text in a box style
NWN2 animated talking heads style

Personally I still have a hankering for NWN1 style, and it'll save me from tangling with lip flappers, but what does anyone else think?

[kevL]

I still prefer 1 style, unless the conversation is really important.

[JasonNH]

For most situations, I think the NWN1 style convos work best, particularly for community mods that don't have high quality VO. There is the added benefit of having the freedom to continue using the GUI and walk away from a convo if so desired with NWN1 style. My personal preference is to employ NWN1 style for the majority of convos and use the NWN2 style for more significant and/or plot related moments where you may want to embellish with animations and such.

[Arkalezth]

What the others said.

I don't care a lot about what style is used if only the main character can talk. I've seen both styles combined in other modules: boxes for merchants and the like, and the other way for more important characters. If boxes mean faster development, I'd use boxes.

Though I prefer SoZ style if possible, that way the party members can talk and use conversation skills too.

Modifié par Arkalezth, 21 janvier 2011 - 02:43 .

[NWN DM]

NWN'1' version.

[Hellfire_RWS]

Clyordes wrote...
Personally I still have a hankering for NWN1 style, and it'll save me from tangling with lip flappers, but what does anyone else think?

if you go for lipsync dont mess with lipflappers. Binary made a far better tool that generates accurate lip synching
you can see the thread here for the FXE tool


either style convo works for me. 

Modifié par Hellfire_RWS, 21 janvier 2011 - 02:51 .

[dunniteowl]

Agreed all around. Use 0100010's (aka: Binary) FXE tools and you'll never look at the lip flappers the same way again -- it's awesome. Also, for important scenes and maybe initial meetings, the Cutscene tools can be used to great effect (though, IMO, aren't truly necessary really) and the rest of the time a simple dialog box should cover it.

This is as a player, even though I build, also. When I play I want things to be easy to do, relatively straightforward and logically sound. And when I say, "easy to do" I don't mean I want easy battles or puzzles that are a snap -- I mean my controls, dialog options and commands I give should be all that. The interface with the game should allow me to concentrate on the game and playing it, not requiring me to remember a series of convolute and arcane keyboard commands to get 'er done.

As to convos, though, I am all for simple, straightforward text whenever feasable and if a cutscene is to be done, then by all means, take the time to learn Binary's FXE tools. You won't be sorry.

dunniteowl

[PJ156]

I use both when I mod and like to see both when I play. As has been said you can use the convo type to priorotise the convo. NWN 2 can be used for the important bits.

From a tech perspective I have noted that you connot use all colours on the PC node in NWN1 method. Whereas this does not seem to be a limitation in NWN2.

PJ

[manageri]

I don't really care which style is used, but even if you're going for the "nwn2 style" I don't think that necessitates using lipflappers if you're not using voiceovers.

[Leinadi]

I think cutscene style can be used with great effect in important conversations, *if* the mod maker takes time to specify camera angles and such. Just leaving the NWN2 option on often makes things look pretty dull I think, especially in mods where one would typically have no voiceovers.



Generally speaking, I'd say my preference is for NWN1 style but with crafted cutscenes for important scenes.

[Lugaid of the Red Stripes]

I think the NWN2-style convos are important because they're pretty much the only time you can take the camera out of the floating-3rd person mode and show the gameworld as the characters see it, at eye-level and properly centered on something important, whether that be an NPC or a geographical feature. As I build modules, playtesting it first without convos and then with them added in, I can tell it's only when you add in the static cameras and show things from the PC's point of view that the player really gets pulled into the story and the gameworld. I'm actually kinda surprised that so many folks prefer the nwn1 style.

[Shallina]

I am not nostalgic at all. I prefer by far NWN2 style, it makes the conversation more involved.

[M. Rieder]

I try to make most conversations NWN1 style. If there is a critical meeting or event that needs to be cinematic, then I go NWN2. I use NWN2 also for situations which require a particular fixed camera angle.



Whatever you do, beware the lip flappers that keep you from being able to left-click thourgh conversations. I played one module that had lip flappers which made you wait for each node and I almost gnawed my arms off. It was an excellent mod but I almost quit like 3 times just out of sheer conversation frustration.

[Dorateen]

Arkalezth wrote...


Though I prefer SoZ style if possible, that way the party members can talk and use conversation skills too.

heh, yes, this. I was also going to mention, there are not just two conversation styles to consider, but a third. Thanks to Storm of Zehir, one which allows all the party members to partcipate in a dialogue.

I ought to get around to writing a tutorial for Party Chat style conversations.

Harumph!

[Clyordes]

Crivens! I'm always right impressed by the quality, not to mention the speed of the replies to this thread.

At the moment all the convos (& there are a lot) are NWN2 style & when I've been testing it I've been wondering whether it was a good idea. I think if I had the time to learn the FXE tool I would, but realistically, from looking at it, it seems I'd have to do an awful lot of work to get all the conversations sorted, so I reckon I'll try NWN1 style for all convo's & see how it looks on my next run through.



Many thanks for the ideas folks, and if anyone else wants to add their views - please do - I'll check back regularly



Cly.

[casadechrisso]

There's one important thing about cutscenes to add if you're building a PW: It reveals a DM toon (and many DMs aren't even aware of that and don't hide quick). =)

So for a PW or DMed campaign I'd actually recommend against cutscene-style in most cases.

[Haplose]

I generally prefer NWN1 style. Maybe throw a few cutscenes for some most memorable critical moments in the mix.

Modifié par Haplose, 24 janvier 2011 - 11:24 .

[Clyordes]

Hmm, have just playtested some parts & I'm preferring the NWN1 style too - so for the vast majority of conversations in this adventure - that's what I'm going for.

Thanks for all the input, folks.

[Shaughn78]

I will recommend a mixture. NWN1 style is nice for quick conversation or conversations with minor characters. NWN2 styles takes a lot more work to do properly, but can add a lot more demension to the game. Random camera shots can take a lot away from the conversation especially when using scaled NPCs or tilesets with varied heights (sunken or shadow fortress and some of RWS tilesets). Cut scenes also have to have a way to ID the speaker. NWN1 is easy, the portrait is shown, NWN2 will just have the speaker and listener face each other. If multiple NPCs are in the screenshot determining who is speaking can be difficult. Lip flappers or other VO tools, even without sound, colored text or (name) text will identify who is speaking.

M. Rieder wrote...
Whatever you do, beware the lip flappers that keep you from being able to left-click thourgh conversations. I played one module that had lip flappers which made you wait for each node and I almost gnawed my arms off. It was an excellent mod but I almost quit like 3 times just out of sheer conversation frustration.

A quick aside, lip flappers or another sound file will not make a node unclickable. The issue with sound files is that at end of the sound the node ends regardless of how long it is. If it is a longer node and a lipflapper or other sound file is shorter then the time needed to read the line the creator will likely add a delay so the file will not end prematurely. This will allow the player to read the node with having to pause or to allow a scripted event to happen properly.

So when using NWN2 style I would advice using delays with caution and never add them without cause and to make sure the player knows who is talking.

Modifié par Shaughn78, 03 février 2011 - 04:02 .

[E.C.Patterson]

NWN1 for most, NWN2 for key. But much better NWN1 for all, than NWN2 for all. I hate minor convos in CS style. I'm playing The Witcher right now for the first time and I find myself often wishing for simple text boxes.

[Clyordes]

Hmm, maybe I'll put back one or two NWN2 syle convos. I'd missed one where an ogre sticks his face right up close to the PC to intimidate them, and that works really well as a close shot of the 2 heads really close together - a proper "Eeek!" moment. And I really should make the final encounter conversation with the Naga a bit more dramatic by using a NWN2 style.



Really interesting to see so much of a concensus though - I was expecting opinion to be split more evenly.

[dunniteowl]

I think it's pretty easy to see the relative values in either form of convo. And I would wager that in some aspects of building, many of us are a alot closer on technical considerations of how to build and design for the player than we are on things like playstyle, character types preferred, or even how to construct plots, stories, etc. The mechanics of putting it all together, though, well, I think most of us agree on keeping things moving and increase drama/tension only when there's a percieved benefit over keeping things moving.

dunniteowl