7 réponses à ce sujet

[Jozon]

I'm trying to build a Gish but I'm having trouble with getting a high enough DC on my spells.  I'm curious how high I need them to be to reliably function as intended.  I plan to go from the OC to MoTB if that gives an idea of the saves enemies will have. 

[KurumiMorishita]

Why bother with DCs? .. any serious arcane caster uses no-save spells most of the time.. esp. mage/fighter hybrids!!

[The Fred]

Spell DC comes mainly from spell level (constant) and ability score modifier. So, unless your primary casting ability is a lot lower than it would be in a pure build, your DC shouldn't be too much lower. Obviously there are things like Spell Focus to take into account, but in NWN2 those only add +1 to the DC, which I don't think is really a massive bonus, given it applies to only one school. Spellcasting Prodigy is another good one to take, though as a gish you might want Luck of Heroes instead. You could consider, though, taking a level of Cleric or, theoretically, 11 levels of Swashbuckler (probably not sensible, though) to get LoH instead.

[nicethugbert]

I would look at the Saving Throws progression and see if you can get ahead of it somehow.  Maybe you should cast some -saves spells first?

Modifié par nicethugbert, 22 janvier 2011 - 08:15 .

[Haplose]

Well, Gishes typically focus on buffs and no-save spells. Particularly ray-type spells work well with a better AB - and they usually don't allow saving throws.

But getting through with spells that require saves sure feels more satisfying. NTB offered good advice - saving throw debuffs are your friends.

Also be sure to target correct saving throws - will and reflex against heavy warrior-types, will and fortitude against agile rogue-types, will against agile warrior-types, fortitude and reflex against arcane casters, reflex against divine casters. For Paladin, Blackguard, Warlock and Monk-types you're probably best off using no-save spells (Monks ALSO have high-ish touch-AC though).

Modifié par Haplose, 24 janvier 2011 - 09:47 .

[The Fred]

Monks are evil, all saves high and dodge AC bonuses. Plus a few immunities, and, at high levels, spell resistance.

[nicethugbert]

The high save progression is 2 + 1 per 2 levels. Spell DCs progress at +1 per spell level which translates to 1 + 1 per 2 caster levels above level 1, for wizards, clerics, and druids up to level 17 when they get 9th level spells. It's a slower progression for Favored Souls, Spirit Shaman and Bards. Epic casters get a +1 DC per 3 epic caster levels, IIRC. Epic Spells get a +5 DC, IIRC. Some spells get a DC bonus, Implosion for instance.

So, if you have a +2 from your casting stat, i.e. a 14 casting stat, then your DCs are even with the high save progression up to level 18. If you have an 18 casting stat then you are +2 ahead of the high save progression upto level 18. Add +4 ability increases by level 20 for another +2 DC. Add spell casting prodigy, spell focus, and greater spell focus for another +3 DC. So, by level 20 you can out pace the high save progression by +6, or +7 if you started with a 19 or 20 casting stat and put 5 or 4 ability increases into it and took the three feats mentioned, without magic items.

In epic levels the high save progression gains +5 by level 30. Epic spell casters gain +3 DC in that time. But, they get higher level magic items and more casting ability increases.

There are save boosting items, spells, and special abilities at all levels but these are often over looked in favor of immunities or for other reasons or for no reason at all.

The low save progression is 7 points behind the high save progression by level 30.

Modifié par nicethugbert, 24 janvier 2011 - 10:21 .

[The Fred]

Given that most of your DC comes from abilities and spell level, I shouldn't think a Gish's DCs would be much behind those of a pure caster, maybe a point or two. Just make sure you keep your casting stat high and, preferably, take Spellcasting Prodigy.