169 réponses à ce sujet

[crimzontearz]

Chris Priestly wrote...

bjdbwea wrote...
What's your definition of "rushed"?

Rushed - not enough time taken to make the item top quality.

define top quality


because silicon knights still thought too human was top quality

[ObserverStatus]

crimzontearz wrote...

Chris Priestly wrote...

bjdbwea wrote...
What's your definition of "rushed"?

Rushed - not enough time taken to make the item top quality.

define top quality
because silicon knights still thought too human was top quality

I think that by "top quality" he means that the new ideas that bioware has brought into this game have been developed to their full potential.  The extent to which these ideas will enhance the game remains to be seen.

[ninja36inc]

i would say no it has not been rushed as they have 4 years of content made befor origins was out DA2 is probably counted in that content

[Stanley Woo]

bobobo878 wrote...
I think that by "top quality" he means that the new ideas that bioware has brought into this game have been developed to their full potential.  The extent to which these ideas will enhance the game remains to be seen.

By this definition all games could be considered "rushed," because there is never enough time to make everything perfect, never enough QA time, and always something more that could be done. but at some point, a product has to be shipped. the common gamer definition of "rushed" seems to be either "has bugs" or "contains feature I don't like / disagree with" rather than "the scale of this project was too big for the amount of time and resources allotted," if for no other reason than the customer is not privy to internal schedules or business information.

Really, what is crunch time but a developer "rushing" to finish the game by a certain deadline? And most every developer goes through crunch time at the end of a project.

[Maria Caliban]

rexil wrote...

When we will get that promised trailer of Lady Hawke ?

Mike didn't promise us a trailer of Lady Hawke. Only that we'd hear her voice.

[crimzontearz]

uhm....duke nukem forever has been in developement for 12 years....is that "enough" time? LOL



I kid I kid I just can't stop watching that trailer



"Hail to Mike Hawke baby"

[nightcobra]

Maria Caliban wrote...

rexil wrote...

When we will get that promised trailer of Lady Hawke ?

Mike didn't promise us a trailer of Lady Hawke. Only that we'd hear her voice.

probably developer diary number 3.

i'm betting that the 3rd episode might delve deeper into explaining what's new with character creation or class/skills levelling.

[BurtonSD]

rexil wrote...

Chris Priestly wrote...

Has Dragon Age 2 been rushed?

No.

Next question?

When we will get that promised trailer of Lady Hawke ?

Not sure if it was a promised trailer, but this is what i'm waiting for.

[upsettingshorts]

Stanley Woo wrote...

By this definition all games could be considered "rushed," because there is never enough time to make everything perfect, never enough QA time, and always something more that could be done. but at some point, a product has to be shipped. the common gamer definition of "rushed" seems to be either "has bugs" or "contains feature I don't like / disagree with" rather than "the scale of this project was too big for the amount of time and resources allotted," if for no other reason than the customer is not privy to internal schedules or business information.

I'd throw in "has less development time in terms of months than other games" to the definition as well.  For people ignoring things like "man hours," "size of team," "existing elements" and a host of other things that lead to the idea that a 1:1 comparison between a development month for game X and a development month for game Y is inherently problematic.

It's simple.  No-one involved from the publisher on down to the consumer wants a game to a buggy, unfinished, incoherent experience.  When one gets released, nobody is happy.  Whether or not Dragon Age 2 is one of those games is something we'll have to judge for ourselves as we play it - discussing the possibility beforehand, as consumers with absolutely zero knowledge of the state of the build let alone how Bioware's working on it - is a pointless exercise.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 21 janvier 2011 - 06:59 .

[ObserverStatus]

Stanley Woo wrote...

bobobo878 wrote...
I think that by "top quality" he means that the new ideas that bioware has brought into this game have been developed to their full potential.  The extent to which these ideas will enhance the game remains to be seen.

By this definition all games could be considered "rushed," because there is never enough time to make everything perfect, never enough QA time, and always something more that could be done. but at some point, a product has to be shipped. the common gamer definition of "rushed" seems to be either "has bugs" or "contains feature I don't like / disagree with" rather than "the scale of this project was too big for the amount of time and resources allotted," if for no other reason than the customer is not privy to internal schedules or business information.

Really, what is crunch time but a developer "rushing" to finish the game by a certain deadline? And most every developer goes through crunch time at the end of a project.

IMO both definitions of "rushed" can be right.  In some games such as Fallout New Vegas, there are so many bugs that I think it is fair to say that the amount of time allotted to debugging was not sufficient for the scale of the project.

Modifié par bobobo878, 21 janvier 2011 - 07:00 .

[Wishpig]

Chris Priestly wrote...

bjdbwea wrote...
What's your definition of "rushed"?

Rushed - not enough time taken to make the item top quality.

Hate to go agianst Chris... but you guys said the same thing about awakening... and that was obviously rushed. Good game, worth the money, patched up fairly nicely after the fact, but still rushed.

Not New Vegas bad, but clearly not top quality, as in not polished. Reviews from players and critics alike generally confirm that.

No game is going to be perfect and bug free, but there is defenitly a point where it crosses the line.

Modifié par Wishpig, 21 janvier 2011 - 07:39 .

[Saibh]

Wishpig wrote...

Hate to go agianst Chris... but you guys said the same thing about awakening... and that was obviously rushed. Good game, worth the money, patched up fairly nicely after the fact, but still rushed.

Were people really claiming Awakening was rushed, before it came out? That's surprising, considering it was only an expansion.

In any case, the only thing I worry about due to the development cycle is bugs. DAO was rife with them, DAO-A was crippled by them, and I don't want DAII to be unplayable.

[Wishpig]

Saibh wrote...

Wishpig wrote...

Hate to go agianst Chris... but you guys said the same thing about awakening... and that was obviously rushed. Good game, worth the money, patched up fairly nicely after the fact, but still rushed.

Were people really claiming Awakening was rushed, before it came out? That's surprising, considering it was only an expansion.

In any case, the only thing I worry about due to the development cycle is bugs. DAO was rife with them, DAO-A was crippled by them, and I don't want DAII to be unplayable.

Oh yeah. Much like DA2, there seemed to be a thread on it every week. It's not some cheap little $10 DLC. It cost the same price as many FULL games. It's development time was on the short side for an exansion too. So of course people worried and it turns out they were right too.

The devs told us the same thing "its not rushed, we started it before DA:O was released." Thats why I'm not really trusting them on this. I trust them that they started before DA:O's release... I don't think they're lying about that. But I don't trust them in saying DA2 will be very polished. Lets face it... they have a bad record when it comes to DA and bugs.

Keep in mind I'm not saying it will or will not be polished. Only time can answer that. I'm only saying, "sorry Chris, can't take your word on that one."

To be fair in their place I wouldn't admit it was rushed even if I thought it was.

Modifié par Wishpig, 21 janvier 2011 - 07:49 .

[Phoenixblight]

Wishpig wrote...

Saibh wrote...

Wishpig wrote...

Hate to go agianst Chris... but you guys said the same thing about awakening... and that was obviously rushed. Good game, worth the money, patched up fairly nicely after the fact, but still rushed.

Were people really claiming Awakening was rushed, before it came out? That's surprising, considering it was only an expansion.

In any case, the only thing I worry about due to the development cycle is bugs. DAO was rife with them, DAO-A was crippled by them, and I don't want DAII to be unplayable.

Oh yeah. Much like DA2, there seemed to be a thread on it every week. It's not some cheap little $10 DLC. It cost the same price as many FULL games. It's development time was on the short side for an exansion too. So of course people worried and it turns out they were right too.

The devs told us the same thing "its not rushed, we started it before DA:O was released." Thats why I'm not really trusting them on this. I trust them that they started before DA:O's release... I don't think they're lying about that. But I don't trust them in saying DA2 will be very polished. Lets face it... they have a bad record when it comes to DA and bugs.

Keep in mind I'm not saying it will or will not be polished. Only time can answer that. I'm only saying, "sorry Chris, can't take your word on that one."

To be fair in their place I wouldn't admit it was rushed even if I thought it was.

SO then all the people that have played the demo of it are lying? I seriously doubt thats the case.

[Wishpig]

Phoenixblight wrote...

Wishpig wrote...

Saibh wrote...

Wishpig wrote...

Hate to go agianst Chris... but you guys said the same thing about awakening... and that was obviously rushed. Good game, worth the money, patched up fairly nicely after the fact, but still rushed.

Were people really claiming Awakening was rushed, before it came out? That's surprising, considering it was only an expansion.

In any case, the only thing I worry about due to the development cycle is bugs. DAO was rife with them, DAO-A was crippled by them, and I don't want DAII to be unplayable.

Oh yeah. Much like DA2, there seemed to be a thread on it every week. It's not some cheap little $10 DLC. It cost the same price as many FULL games. It's development time was on the short side for an exansion too. So of course people worried and it turns out they were right too.

The devs told us the same thing "its not rushed, we started it before DA:O was released." Thats why I'm not really trusting them on this. I trust them that they started before DA:O's release... I don't think they're lying about that. But I don't trust them in saying DA2 will be very polished. Lets face it... they have a bad record when it comes to DA and bugs.

Keep in mind I'm not saying it will or will not be polished. Only time can answer that. I'm only saying, "sorry Chris, can't take your word on that one."

To be fair in their place I wouldn't admit it was rushed even if I thought it was.

SO then all the people that have played the demo of it are lying? I seriously doubt thats the case.

You don't see why that comment is illogical? Really? I can't beleave I have to spell this out...

A. A demo does not represent the entire game *unless you're referring to someone demo'ing the full game, but I assume your talking about the actual demo*
B. If the demo your referring to is just a demo and not the full game than of course the devs are gonna make sure that portion is polished as hell! Thats how they win people over!
C. Most bugs and problems occurring on PC's as PC's vary so much from person to person. Person A might just have the perfect setup Person B might have a videocard that just doesn't work well with DA2, even if it's a good one. Rushing a game often hurts this factor the most.
D. Tying into the above, most previews I've read are from the console version. Consoles are very consitant in specs so bugs are MUCH less frequent. I'm not surprised at all.

Let me make it clear once more, I'm not saying the game will be a buggy mess. I can see it very easily going either way and most likley ending up somewhere in the middle. What I am saying is that no one can really be sure until release. Taking the devs words on it or trusting demo's created to BE demo'ed is a poor thing to go on. SO is assuming it will be buggy.

Modifié par Wishpig, 21 janvier 2011 - 08:02 .

[Phoenixblight]

There will always be bugs whether game is "rushed" or not.

The comparison from the original game and the expansion is bit of a silly one because Bioware was in a completely different place as there are now. They were developing the original game while being independent when resources were scarce. Look at Mass Effect to Mass Effect 2, two completely different games, gameplay wise. Mass Effect was rife with bugs but after EA took up Bioware look at Mass Effect 2 completly different the bugs were practically nonexistent.

Modifié par Phoenixblight, 21 janvier 2011 - 08:08 .

[TheCreeper]

Here's my question, who would rush a game to get it out in march? If they were rushing the game it would come out close to the holiday season, not march unless they are really trying to corner the easter market or something.

[Wishpig]

Phoenixblight wrote...



There will always be bugs whether game is "rushed" or not.

Hence why I said, and I quote....

Wishpig wrote...
No game is going to be perfect and bug free, but there is defenitly a point where it crosses the line.

Phoenixblight wrote...

The comparison from the original game and the expansion is bit of a silly one because Bioware was in a completely different place as there are now. They were developing the original game while being independent when resources were scarce. Look at Mass Effect to Mass Effect 2, two completely different games, gameplay wise. Mass Effect was rife with bugs but after EA took up Bioware look at Mass Effect 2 completly different the bugs were practically nonexistent.

Bioware is more well off than ever before... but don't let that fool you, they were HIGHLY successfull pre-dragon age. Baldur's Gate, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Neverwinter... resources were not scarce.

Even if they were scarce, DA:O was underdevelpment for 7 whole years. As opposed to, what... like 2 years for DA2. I'd say that evens the gap.

TheCreeper wrote...

Here's my question, who would rush a
game to get it out in march? If they were rushing the game it would come
out close to the holiday season, not march unless they are really
trying to corner the easter market or something.

There are also diffrent levels of rushed. Just because they could have released earlier doesn't mean it isn't rushed.

Plus, while the holiday season is great for sales, theres also a TON of competition. Black Ops, WoW Cataclysm, insane Steam sales, as just a few examples.

There are two sides to this story. The first is, we can't tell if it will be rushed or not, it could very well NOT be if ME2 is any example . At the same time we can't go and pretend like every bioware product was nicley polished. Awakening and Witch Hunt proves they rush s*** sometimes.

Modifié par Wishpig, 21 janvier 2011 - 08:20 .

[Phoenixblight]

Wishpig wrote...


Bioware is more well off than ever before... but don't let that fool you, they were HIGHLY successfull pre-dragon age. Baldur's Gate, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Neverwinter... resources were not scarce.

Even if they were scarce, DA:O was underdevelpment for 7 whole years. As opposed to, what... like 2 years for DA2. I'd say that evens the gap.

The game when their independent while great were also riddled with bugs. I still have nightmares about KOTOR , Jade Empire and NWN. The trick is finding a way so the gameplay enjoyment overpowers the bugs. For the most part none of their games had a game breaking bug like NV did with the train which was a main plot point in the game.

[slimgrin]

It is a very quick development time. But the thread will only be relevant after we play the game.

[Saibh]

Phoenixblight wrote...

The game when their independent while great were also riddled with bugs. I still have nightmares about KOTOR , Jade Empire and NWN. The trick is finding a way so the gameplay enjoyment overpowers the bugs. For the most part none of their games had a game breaking bug like NV did with the train which was a main plot point in the game.

I've never encountered a single bug in any of my playthroughs of JE or KOTOR. Maybe I was lucky. However, I always hit upon bugs in DAO.

Honestly, I'm okay with DAO's level of bugs so long as it doesn't intefere with the story. When you start having problems like DAO post-Landsmeet, that's just awful.

[Wishpig]

Phoenixblight wrote...

Wishpig wrote...


Bioware is more well off than ever before... but don't let that fool you, they were HIGHLY successfull pre-dragon age. Baldur's Gate, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Neverwinter... resources were not scarce.

Even if they were scarce, DA:O was underdevelpment for 7 whole years. As opposed to, what... like 2 years for DA2. I'd say that evens the gap.

The game when their independent while great were also riddled with bugs. I still have nightmares about KOTOR , Jade Empire and NWN. The trick is finding a way so the gameplay enjoyment overpowers the bugs. For the most part none of their games had a game breaking bug like NV did with the train which was a main plot point in the game.

Agreed, every singleone of there games was good enough to warrent me shrugging off whatever bug I ran into. Thats not the point though. The question is was the game rushed or not. The answer is, could go either way and it wouldn't surprise me.

Bottom line it is a very quick development time. ME2 proves it can be done though.

Modifié par Wishpig, 21 janvier 2011 - 08:27 .

[Bryy_Miller]

crimzontearz wrote...

uhm....duke nukem forever has been in "development" for 12 years....

At the risk of derailment, I fixed the post for you. :happy:

[Phoenixblight]

Wishpig wrote...

Phoenixblight wrote...

Wishpig wrote...


Bioware is more well off than ever before... but don't let that fool you, they were HIGHLY successfull pre-dragon age. Baldur's Gate, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Neverwinter... resources were not scarce.

Even if they were scarce, DA:O was underdevelpment for 7 whole years. As opposed to, what... like 2 years for DA2. I'd say that evens the gap.

The game when their independent while great were also riddled with bugs. I still have nightmares about KOTOR , Jade Empire and NWN. The trick is finding a way so the gameplay enjoyment overpowers the bugs. For the most part none of their games had a game breaking bug like NV did with the train which was a main plot point in the game.

Agreed, every singleone of there games was good enough to warrent me shrugging off whatever bug I ran into. Thats not the point though. The question is was the game rushed or not. The answer is, could go either way and it wouldn't surprise me.

Would suprise me with how well they did with Mass Effect 2. Most of the bugs in DAO were in the engine and the only way to fix those are huge patches (which you really can't do that with Xbox restriction on the size of patches) or when creating the sequel go over the engine and clean up the engine. Which from what I have read is what they have done. I am not saying there won't be bugs but it shouldn't be as bad as DAO.

[Tinxa]

Sometimes I wonder if people seriously think devs launch the game then spend half a year having parties and drinking cocktails and then say.... "Well this was fun... how about we make DA2 now."