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[Fiery Phoenix]

There's been talk about the possibility of General Williams (Ashley's grandfather) being the original founder of Cerberus in several other threads since the release of Issue One of Evolution. I thought it would be appropriate to put it all in its own thread for convenience reasons.

So, after having read the first issue of Evolution, do you find yourself wondering if General Williams is the one who started Cerberus? Why or why not? I think that would be one great plot twist in its own right. We'll definitely know for sure as the comic expands over the months.

For now, here is a thread to discuss this possibility in particular. For those who haven't read the comic yet, the ME Wiki has a nice synopsis explaining what happens.

Modifié par Fiery Phoenix, 21 janvier 2011 - 03:41 .

[jlb524]

Why is this a possibility exactly? Is it because 'Jack Harper' was taking orders from him in the comic?



I've read the synopsis only and that's what I took from it. I guess it is possible he did start the group and Senor Harper took over/usurped him.

[Xephyr829]

That would be very interesting and a great plot twist.

[NICKjnp]

*shakes head* Do you use wikis for your school work too?

[Vaenier]

lol, would be funny.

[Captain Crash]

Doesnt that ring too many bells with Zaeed and the Blue Suns though.  Oh and the Shadow Broker getting killed and replaced not once but twice!

The whole musical chairs with people leading and creating organisations is starting to get really tiring.

[Xephyr829]

I just thought of something. Does anybody remember this mission ? masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/UNC:_Depot_Sigma-23
Towards the end you hear a Cerberus agent mention someone called "The General".

[Aeowyn]

Not sure what to think of this theory, but on one of the Cerberus missions in ME1 (the rachni ship) the audio voice does say "General, if you hear this, screw the rachni."



However, it doesn't really make sense that General Williams founded Cerberus when Ash said that he just worked crap jobs after the occupation was over.

[STG]

SpectreWarden91 wrote...

I just thought of something. Does anybody remember this mission ? masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/UNC:_Depot_Sigma-23
Towards the end you hear a Cerberus agent mention someone called "The General".

Oh snap!

[Zulu_DFA]

Pretty much.



It may be said that Cerbeurs receives what's called a "baptism of fire" on Shanxi, so Gen. Williams is like a god father to it.

[In Exile]

The hilarity of Ashley's distain for Ceberus would be enhanced many times if this were true.

[Badpie]

I've been kind wanting this to be true for a long time. I always thought it would be a great twist. Both for the Alliance and Cerberus and whatever information we have on them - I mean finding out that an Alliance General was involved in starting Cerberus would be pretty big and suggest that Cerberus and Alliance probably still work together at their highest levels (something else I've always thought). Also for Ashley (if she's around in your game) it would be a pretty life altering realization for her I think.

[Dean_the_Young]

NICKjnp wrote...

*shakes head* Do you use wikis for your school work too?

Wiki is actually pretty useful for the 'hard' sciences: it's only when subjectivity or politics comes into play that you really need to watch out. Otherwise, it's pretty reliable and generally has a good support network for keeping the science references straight.

[jlb524]

Aeowyn wrote...

However, it doesn't really make sense that General Williams founded Cerberus when Ash said that he just worked crap jobs after the occupation was over.

I would assume he'd keep that from his family.

Also, General Williams is deceased...correct?  I don't think the UNC mission would have been referring to him, then.

[Dean_the_Young]

jlb524 wrote...

Why is this a possibility exactly? Is it because 'Jack Harper' was taking orders from him in the comic?

I've read the synopsis only and that's what I took from it. I guess it is possible he did start the group and Senor Harper took over/usurped him.

More than 'just took orders': it may well have been the first time TIM and his crew were specifically tasked and organized to do what the Alliance couldn't, setting a pattern for what would occur later.

[Zulu_DFA]

As to the great plot twists, it's about General Williams in general (oh, look it's a pun!).



From Ashley's account in Shepard's times he is remembered as a coward for surrendering the garrison to the Turians. While in fact it turns out he was reluctant to withdraw when ordered to by the brass.



So now I'm quite looking forward to seeing what's going to happen that would make such a discrepancy possible.

[Badpie]

jlb524 wrote...

Aeowyn wrote...

However, it doesn't really make sense that General Williams founded Cerberus when Ash said that he just worked crap jobs after the occupation was over.

I would assume he'd keep that from his family.

Also, General Williams is deceased...correct?  I don't think the UNC mission would have been referring to him, then.

If Gen. Williams was involved in Cerberus I'm sure it was kept from his family.  As for Ash's dad and for her and their crap jobs, keeping them low on the totem pole would make sense.  Higher rankings mean more access and more digging by other people into their family histories.  Keeping them off the radar seems like the smart choice.

[Dean_the_Young]

General (hah!) politics: the Alliance doesn't want to admit it did what it did, and he was convinced (persuaded?) to let his name be slandered for the 'greater good.'



I'd be privately delighted if TIM and Williams were sympathetic towards each other on the issue, and even more so if TIM ended up advocating WIlliams to do the unpleasant and surrender, so as to limit the damage to the humans. 'At any cost' doesn't simply mean more bodies in a helpless struggle: it can mean swallowing shame to end a losing proposition.

[Bogsnot1]

Just because a general was mentioned, it doesnt have to mean it was an Alliance general. It could have been a Salvation Army general working for Cerberus for all we know.

[hawat333]

Not likely.

Even more less likely considering Cerberus was a black ops in the Alliance. That points to higher levels.

[Zulu_DFA]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

General (hah!) politics: the Alliance doesn't want to admit it did what it did, and he was convinced (persuaded?) to let his name be slandered for the 'greater good.'

I'd be privately delighted if TIM and Williams were sympathetic towards each other on the issue, and even more so if TIM ended up advocating WIlliams to do the unpleasant and surrender, so as to limit the damage to the humans. 'At any cost' doesn't simply mean more bodies in a helpless struggle: it can mean swallowing shame to end a losing proposition.

That's what I thought. Seeing how Williams is depicted as a person that'd take an enemy bullet to his head any day ahead of blame to his name, being spared the former and having to accept the latter was probably his "ultimate sacrifice".

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 21 janvier 2011 - 04:15 .

[Anacronian Stryx]

If we're just throwing speculation out there then TIM could be Ashley's farther who inherent Cerberus after his farther and faked his own death in order to run it full time.

Damn it's almost like a chapter of Dynasty!

Modifié par Anacronian Stryx, 21 janvier 2011 - 04:19 .

[Sajuro]

He transferred his mind to 'Jack Harper' to become the current TIM when he (General Williams) was dieing. You heard it here first

[xXSnak3Eat3rXx]

Seeing how Ashley hates Cerberus, it'd be interesting to see her reaction if this is true.

It'd make for a good revelation/twist in the upcoming DLC (I'm of course hoping that the DLC is based on the Virmire survivor) and an emotional confrontation based on this will give Shepard a chance to rekindle his relationship with her, had he romanced her in the first game (kinda like Liara in LotSB)

Modifié par xXSnak3Eat3rXx, 21 janvier 2011 - 04:32 .

[Zulu_DFA]

hawat333 wrote...

Not likely.
Even more less likely considering Cerberus was a black ops in the Alliance. That points to higher levels.

The "higher levels" read Gen. Williams' report of Jack Harper's mission and stared using him later.