157 réponses à ce sujet

[Sajuro]

Vaenier wrote...

NICKjnp wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

NICKjnp wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

NICKjnp wrote...

*shakes head* Do you use wikis for your school work too?

Wiki is actually pretty useful for the 'hard' sciences: it's only when subjectivity or politics comes into play that you really need to watch out. Otherwise, it's pretty reliable and generally has a good support network for keeping the science references straight.

Sure it does.  link

And yet, none of what Colbert says disprove my point at all.

You can't, say, become a full-fledged expert on a subject, but wikipedia is a very useful quick reference to college students and college professors both.

You go ahead and use that as your source for papers.  Enjoy the grades that you will get on them.

You do know when you use wikipedia, you use the references on the bottom of the page.

That's basically it but with some actual work you can find much better sources in Online Libraries
Try Questia next time you have a paper.

[Zulu_DFA]

Brodyaha wrote...

I don't think Ashley would join Cerberus simply because her grandfather founded it (assuming he even did), however.  I could see her thinking that her grandfather had noble intentions (should it be true), but she might think that Cerberus became perverted afterwards.  Thorian Creepers, Akuze, Grayson...

That's right.

"The ends justify the means" is noble intentions when your own Grandpa is in question. But it's totally evil when some NeoCon chain-smoker is in question.

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 23 janvier 2011 - 09:48 .

[Mr_Commander_Shepard]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Brodyaha wrote...

I don't think Ashley would join Cerberus simply because her grandfather founded it (assuming he even did), however.  I could see her thinking that her grandfather had noble intentions (should it be true), but she might think that Cerberus became perverted afterwards.  Thorian Creepers, Akuze, Grayson...

That's right.

"The ends justify the means" is noble intetious when your own Grandpa is in question. But it's totally evil when some NeoCon chain-smoker is in question.

if any of this happens to be true i think that ashley probably doesn't even know that he founded it.

[Zulu_DFA]

Mr_Commander_Shepard wrote...

if any of this happens to be true i think that ashley probably doesn't even know that he founded it.

The discussion is about how Ashley would react if she learned it. Would she have enough spine to just say "Oh yeah, Granpa was a Cerberus dick. Great.", and move on? Or would she start looking for excuses and cop-outs of this? Provided Gen. Williams is long dead and even Shepard's talk-jutsu can't redeem what he did.

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 23 janvier 2011 - 09:57 .

[Fiery Phoenix]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Brodyaha wrote...

I don't think Ashley would join Cerberus simply because her grandfather founded it (assuming he even did), however.  I could see her thinking that her grandfather had noble intentions (should it be true), but she might think that Cerberus became perverted afterwards.  Thorian Creepers, Akuze, Grayson...

That's right.

"The ends justify the means" is noble intentions when your own Grandpa is in question. But it's totally evil when some NeoCon chain-smoker is in question.

LOL!

Oh my... Zulu's posts never old.

[Mr_Commander_Shepard]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Mr_Commander_Shepard wrote...

if any of this happens to be true i think that ashley probably doesn't even know that he founded it.

The discussion is about how Ashley would react if she learned it. Would she have enough spine to just say "Oh yeah, Granpa was a Cerberus dick. Great.", and move on? Or would she start looking for excuses and cop-outs of this? Provided Gen. Williams is long dead and even Shepard's talk-jutsu can't redeem what he did.

Oh, well in that case. Does this sound a little similar to Tali's loyalty mission? Judging by her strong hate for Cerberus and i don't take ash for the excuse cop out type of person, i think she would be pretty shocked and probably wouldn't want to believe it but would know its true if you get what i'm sayin.

 Ashley<3

[Fiery Phoenix]

Ashley is too proud of her grandpa; she never stopped talking about him in ME1 (especially during her romance-specific conversations). I can only imagine how she would feel if she knew about this (again, assuming it's true).

Modifié par Fiery Phoenix, 23 janvier 2011 - 10:23 .

[Zulu_DFA]

So, with the earth-shaking "RETCON!" outcry in the air, let's keep this discussion going.

First, there is half a comic ahead of us yet, so maybe we'll get the clarification of the "Gen. Williams was brought back to Earth in irons" thing. Maybe not, though, then, oh well... the outcry will prove justified.

Secondly, Gen. Williams does demonstrate... certain mindset, that suggests he is going to continue being involved in the creation of Cerberus. From Ashley's report, he is to be demoted without trial, and then eventually resign after a year or so of desk duty, only to move on to "working construction in the colonies". I wonder, what might that be he would have constructed?

Finally, "the General" from the logs on the Depot Sigma-23 comes back to mind. Personally, I have dismissed the idea earlier, but now I have to admit that anything's possible.

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 20 février 2011 - 09:06 .

[AkiKishi]

Fiery Phoenix wrote...

Ashley is too proud of her grandpa; she never stopped talking about him in ME1 (especially during her romance-specific conversations). I can only imagine how she would feel if she knew about this (again, assuming it's true).

After horizon I just would not be able to stop laughing. That would be an awful ending. Sorry folks the Reapers won because Shepard died laughing.

True or not , would make a good twist.

[JediNg]

Fiery Phoenix wrote...

There's been talk about the possibility of General Williams (Ashley's grandfather) being the original founder of Cerberus in several other threads since the release of Issue One of Evolution. I thought it would be appropriate to put it all in its own thread for convenience reasons.

So, after having read the first issue of Evolution, do you find yourself wondering if General Williams is the one who started Cerberus? Why or why not? I think that would be one great plot twist in its own right. We'll definitely know for sure as the comic expands over the months.

For now, here is a thread to discuss this possibility in particular. For those who haven't read the comic yet, the ME Wiki has a nice synopsis explaining what happens.

I don't read the comics, but if he did found Cerberus - which I doubt - I would tell Ashley just to ****** her off.  Hate her I hate aliens mentality in ME2 (and ME).

[McAllyster]

That could be a good twist.



"Shepard I hate you because you worked with the Cerberus!"

"Honey, you mean the Cerberus founded by your grandfather?"

[JediNg]

McAllyster wrote...

That could be a good twist.

"Shepard I hate you because you worked with the Cerberus!"
"Honey, you mean the Cerberus founded by your grandfather?"

I would dohoho so hard.

[Elite Midget]

JediNg wrote...

I don't read the comics, but if he did found Cerberus - which I doubt - I would tell Ashley just to ****** her off.  Hate her I hate aliens mentality in ME2 (and ME).

Know what I hate?

Idealistic fools that take "We should be wary of Aliens because they kinda attacked us unwarranted in the past" as "I HATE ALIENS EVEN THOUGH THEY INVADED US BEFORE! NOW LETS HAVE A BIG ORGY WITH OUR FORMER INVADERS!"


I find your kind far more annoying than even those that want all the Dead Squaddies back(And I've made it a point in many threads that I laugh at their faulty logic of fanboyism) and that's just sad. You should be ashamed of yourself. It's people like you that make me want to make a Full Renegade Shepard and sing songs of Human Domination. At least I know that those of said mindset aren't close minded and are open with what they want. That and they argue with logic instead of blind hatred/fanboyism. Gawd!

Sorry, I needed to vent. I really detest the unwarranted hate that Ashley gets. Even the PS3 Magazine guys have unwarranted hate against Ashley despite the PS3 not having ME1.

Modifié par Elite Midget, 20 février 2011 - 01:32 .

[AkiKishi]

Elite Midget wrote...

Sorry, I needed to vent. I really detest the unwarranted hate that Ashley gets. Even the PS3 Magazine guys have unwarranted hate against Ashley despite the PS3 not having ME1.

Most people hate biggots, can't really say that's a bad thing. She has her reasons but people tend to project their own morality into the game, so I can see where they come from. Personally I just found her pointless once I got Wrex.

[Elite Midget]

Ashley isn't a Bigot. She's a realist.

Aliens invaded your galaxy and could have wiped out humanity. Hell, the Turians 'WANTED' to wipe out humanity after they were pushed back. The Asari and Salarians intervened when they saw that the Turians were going to lose more than gain by attacking the Humans. They didn't intervene because they felt bad for humanity. If Humanity had fallen to the Turians than they would have just swept the conflict under the rug just like the Krogan and Rachni.

Wrex is a Biotic/Soldier combination... They each have their roles but as a pure tank Ashley was the better character to bring.

Modifié par Elite Midget, 20 février 2011 - 01:39 .

[Flamewielder]

General Williams may have contributed actively to the creation of Cerberus (and have gotten sacked because of it, subsequently being painted as the cowards who surrendered Shanxi). Or his unfair treatment by the Alliance brass and politicians may have further convinced TIM of the need to pursue his "humanity first" agenda covertly.

[Elite Midget]

Well, it isn't a stretch that TIM sees the Alliance Brass as a bunch of alien lovers that bow to their every whim. Hell, it's the Cerberus corrupt Politicians that fought for a Council seat while the Alien lovers, that think idealistically like JediNg, were willing to scapegoat their own kind, bend over to the wills of an Alien Council(THAT INVADED THEM!), and having no desire to strengthen the military to protect itself against another unwarranted Invasion.

Modifié par Elite Midget, 20 février 2011 - 01:55 .

[Dean_the_Young]

Why not take it further?



His 'unfair treatment' was in fact part of his cover to set up and run Cerberus! In the post-war, everyone thinks he's been marginalized and demeaned and set aside, when in fact he's in charge of setting up shop in the darkest of the dark. And when he has, once he did his duty and left it capable of being carried on, he retired, and spent the rest of his days in colony construction, another useful front and instrument of the Alliance he had spent his life defending.



Because he's the hero Humanity deserves in this dangerous galaxy, but not the one it needs right now... and so we'll hate him, because he can take it. Because he's not a hero. He's a willing sacrifice. A dutiful soldier. A three-headed dog breeder.

[Flamewielder]

McAllyster wrote...
That could be a good twist.
"Shepard I hate you because you worked with the Cerberus!"
"Honey, you mean the Cerberus founded by your grandfather?"

What if she DID find out about it in the two years she was working for Anderson? Their wasn't really time to delve into this, but she was a blackballed clueless NCO in ME1... Since then, she's been Anderson's trusted operative for 2 years. She could have been privy to a LOT of stuff since Shep's "death".

What if one discovered his/her grandfather was an extermination camp warden? Or photographed on one of the Abu Graib pictures, torturing prisonners? Would this improve one's perception of war criminals? I don't think so... I think one would feel pretty bitter about it. Discovering your (ex-)boyfriend works with the same brand of people would be even more of a outrage.

So, I can totally see where Ash is coming from on Horizon. Retcon or no, it still shows continuity.

[Elite Midget]

Super robot Wars J for the GBA handled the Ex-Boyfriend thing pretty well as well. Female Lead learns that all her friends were killed under the orders of the man she loved. They than later have a lovers spat for the rest of the game before the Female Lead refuses to let her Ex die easy and instead having to living with what he had allowed to happen while under orders. Though they do, in JRPG fashion, get back together and forgive each other but not the deed or the Organization he was a part of.

[Flamewielder]

Dean_the_Young wrote...
Why not take it further?

His 'unfair treatment' was in fact part of his cover to set up and run Cerberus! In the post-war, everyone thinks he's been marginalized and demeaned and set aside, when in fact he's in charge of setting up shop in the darkest of the dark. And when he has, once he did his duty and left it capable of being carried on, he retired, and spent the rest of his days in colony construction, another useful front and instrument of the Alliance he had spent his life defending.

Because he's the hero Humanity deserves in this dangerous galaxy, but not the one it needs right now... and so we'll hate him, because he can take it. Because he's not a hero. He's a willing sacrifice. A dutiful soldier. A three-headed dog breeder.

And taking it another step further, Gen. Williams would not only have sacrificed his military career but also those of his son and grand-daughter who toiled in thankless obscurity because of it. Mind you, he can rationalize this away, telling himself "It's their choice! They could have chosen another career..."

Perhaps it was. Evolution has so far proven itself to be much better than the previous comics in adding depth to characters in an interesting way.

[Elite Midget]

Why am I getting a Dark Knight feel from these comments?

[Dean_the_Young]

Because I paraphrased the ending line from the Dark Knight?